8 minutes ago, Khan said:

Now THAT was a bad move on AMC's part, lol!  Not just because the subject matter was too dark and heavy for a character like Erica (and actor like Susan Lucci), but in order for that storyline to have been truly effective, Erica would've needed to deal not only with her addiction but also with the long-standing issues that led to the addiction; which, in turn, would have forced Erica to mature in ways TPTB clearly didn't want.  But, at least I finally heard her admit that her father didn't give a [!@#$%^&*] about her - even if she was high as a [!@#$%^&*] kite and even if I knew that they'd never have her really reassess her life and question whether remaining as the world's shortest supermodel and cosmetics magnate truly makes her happy.

 

For me, the biggest problem was watching Erica keep getting saddled with (IMO) really boring partners just to prove she still had it at her age (not to mention, the endless obsession with Jack, a relationship I will never understand).  Like, it's one thing for a grandmother to keep up her bed-hopping, but how can you ask longtime fans to go from someone like Tom Cudahy to someone like Ryan Lavery, lol?

It is amazing how Erica Kane when from the star of the show --she literally had the biggest picture in the photo album openings-- to a diminished character after (correct me if I'm wrong) 2000?

 

Why would this show do this? Some say it's because she got old. Similarly, Viki stopped being the center of OLTL after her DID story ended in 1996. But (again, correct me if I'm wrong) I feel like Viki was still more centralized than Erica. 

1 minute ago, Vee said:

I do think Erica was largely just coasting or somewhat removed from key story for too much of the last decade. But I'd never have cut her.

Agreed. She's an iconic character and I don't care to see the show without her.

1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

Then by the end they had Michael Nouri, which would have made much more sense twenty years earlier.

Thank you!  And not as some Cortlandt relative we ain't ever heard of either!

2 minutes ago, Vee said:

I do think Erica was largely just coasting or somewhat removed from key story for too much of the last decade. But I'd never have cut her. 

I wouldn't have cut her either.  I loved Erica Kane (and Susan Lucci), and I always will.  But there did come a point when I wanted desperately for her to expand her world and prove to the folks at home that change, however difficult, was still possible.

Just now, Planet Soap said:

Similarly, Viki stopped being the center of OLTL after her DID story ended in 1996. But (again, correct me if I'm wrong) I feel like Viki was still more centralized than Erica. 

I don't think Viki ever stopped being the center of OLTL (at least in my time) with the exception of a grim period in the mid-2000s where they seriously were shítting on her after Frons came in, who clearly wanted her backburnered as much as possible. Most particularly the Dena Higley years. Ron Carlivati gained a lot of goodwill immediately by coming in with a major frontburner story and romance for VIki in 2007. It felt like it had been ten years.

Just now, Planet Soap said:

It is amazing how Erica Kane when from the star of the show --she literally had the biggest picture in the photo album openings-- to a diminished character after (correct me if I'm wrong) 2000?

I don't know if she was diminished so much as she was trapped (again, by TPTB, who wouldn't allow her to mature, for whatever reason).

However, I do think there came a point when storylines involving Erica felt less character-driven than they had been in years past (although, you could make the same argument for pretty much every veteran character on AMC).

9 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

Mamie so far as I know has always been her real name just like First Lady Mamie Eisenhower (The Golden Girls once made a joke about this regarding the uncomfortable closeness to the other word when Blanche’s own nanny came to visit.

Jill’s relationship to Mamie was on a basis of classism, similar to Jill’s views of Esther. At first glance you’d think there would be racial undertones but it was never explored at all except for a upstairs vs downstairs basis.

I mentioned it a while back in another thread recently regarding the presumedly AA character Keisha Monroe being played by not one but two actresses who were not of AA descent. Despite some grimaces and rumblings most viewers seem to not even bat an eye and Keisha’s actual race was never mentioned. 

You definitely see the racial undertones in scene where Jill tries to have Mamie arrested. She gaslights her, lies to the cop, and then calls Mamie a threat to the Abbot family. Jill basically wrote the playbook for "Karen" behavior.

 

If any OLTL diva suffered in the 00’s, it was Dorian/Robin Strasser. I don’t think they ever quite got Dorian right again when Robin returned in 2003.

Just now, BetterForgotten said:

If any OLTL diva suffered in the 00’s, it was Dorian/Robin Strasser. I don’t think they ever quite got Dorian right again when Robin returned in 2003.

Dorian at least had heavy story and several frontburner love interests. As soon as Frons arrived VIki had little more than Coma (then Dead) Ben and was relegated to talk-to stuff for years. Malone in his limited power briefly tried to bring in a couple rando new guys to play off her which didn't work out (first Marcie's bigoted dad then poor Kevin Dobson from Knots Landing, looking horribly lost), and Higley spent the bulk of her tenure having JVD's Clint shít on her with Dorian.

3 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Something about this is nagging at me. I think that she did pitch AMC, I think to NBC, which seems logical since she was in the process of saving Another World from early cancelation. But, to be sure is going to require looking things up. If I recall the whole schmiel correctly at this point the story says she put it in a drawer - unless it was in a box?

And, wasn't the reason she then wrote OLTL because ABC asked her to write it?

I have always wondered about that. On paper, it seems like AMC was the more traditional, marketable soap. Why did Nixon think that OLTL would be an easier sell? Was ABC looking for more gritty, "relevant" drama during that time? 

3 minutes ago, Vee said:

Dorian at least had heavy story and several frontburner love interests. As soon as Frons arrived VIki had little more than Coma (then Dead) Ben and was relegated to talk-to stuff for years. Malone in his limited power briefly tried to bring in a couple rando new guys to play off her which didn't work out (first Marcie's bigoted dad then poor Kevin Dobson from Knots Landing, looking horribly lost), and Higley spent the bulk of her tenure having JVD's Clint shít on her with Dorian.

Wasn't Richard Bekins in there briefly too?

15 minutes ago, Vee said:

I don't think Viki ever stopped being the center of OLTL (at least in my time) with the exception of a grim period in the mid-2000s where they seriously were shítting on her after Frons came in, who clearly wanted her backburnered as much as possible. Most particularly the Dena Higley years. Ron Carlivati gained a lot of goodwill immediately by coming in with a major frontburner story and romance for VIki in 2007. It felt like it had been ten years.

The less I say about Viki's disastrous relationship with Charlie....

I think a BIG problem for Viki during that same period was the show's basic inability to write for her children or recast them properly.  Dan Gauthier turned out to be okay as a Kevin recast (although - and I say this about all the adult Kevins - I would've liked to have seen at least some of Joe Riley in their oldest child), but they never found the right Joey after Chris McKenna left; and Bree Williamson's Jessica was just wrong.

To me, it says a lot that the insta-daughter, Natalie, turned out to be the child of Viki's that had the most staying power of any of 'em!

Edited November 19, 20241 yr by Khan

Just now, Khan said:

The less I say about Viki's disastrous relationship with Charlie....

Loved it.

Dan Gauthier ended up very popular as Kevin. It was the network that didn't like him and had him removed. They ended up bringing him back as often as they could.

6 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Wasn't Richard Bekins in there briefly too?

I don't remember him.

11 minutes ago, Vee said:

Dorian at least had heavy story and several frontburner love interests. 

True, but were they really her finest moments, lol?

Even the damage that Paul Rauch tried to do to Dorian before RS left the first time didn't compare to how TPTB treated her every run thereafter.

Just now, Khan said:

True, but were they really her finest moments, lol?

I don't think anyone had a ball in the Higley years. But Viki's situation was truly dire and humiliating (and before that, under Malone II, mostly rarely seen when she wasn't actively dying).

Just now, Vee said:

I don't think anyone had a ball in the Higley years. 

Oh, I beg to differ.  I think Trevor St. John had a high old time, lol.

Just now, Khan said:

Oh, I beg to differ.  I think Trevor St. John had a high old time, lol.

Well, yes. Him and Renee Elise Goldsberry, and Michael Easton (and Bree).

Edited November 19, 20241 yr by Vee