4 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

And James Reynolds and Debbi Morgan should have been cast from the get go. That would have got a lot of attention and showed they were serious about the Black characters.

This is unquestionably true! 

4 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

You watched it & listened to it & gave your impression. That's fair. 

To me, it is feel good. If it reminds me of anything else it is the theme from Cheers. And to me it does not evoke versus. Instead it relates both or together.

See, I loved the "Cheers" opening. It didn't really have anything to do with the characters, but it centered on camaraderie within a bar. Coupled with the literal lyrics, the theme made sense and worked. It might not work in today's 2-second theme world, but it was perfect for what "Cheers" was/is. I agree that the "Generations" look reminded me of "Cheers" in that regard. 

I don't feel the "Generations" theme evoked that, as you only got a glimpse of the cast in the last 2 seconds of the opening before the title appeared to close it out.

3 minutes ago, Errol said:

See, I loved the "Cheers" opening. It didn't really have anything to do with the characters, but it centered on camaraderie within a bar. Coupled with the literal lyrics, the theme made sense and worked. It might not work in today's 2-second theme world, but it was perfect for what "Cheers" was/is. I agree that the "Generations" look reminded me of "Cheers" in that regard. 

Glad to hear that. 

 

3 minutes ago, Errol said:

I don't feel the "Generations" theme evoked that, as you only got a glimpse of the cast in the last 2 seconds of the opening before the title appeared to close it out.

Well, there you probably have something.

3 hours ago, Khan said:

The best opening sequences give you a sense of the show you're about to watch.  The openings for Bell shows, for example, really push the notions of youth, glamour, vitality.  You know you're gonna watch beautiful people suffer beautifully.  GH's classic opening, with the ambulance speeding past the hospital, lets you know that their show is about action and excitement.  Even if the actual show has little to nothing to DO with medical drama anymore, the opening still keeps you on the edge of your seat.

But what does GENERATIONS' opening really tell you about the show, other than blacks are people, too?  It doesn't evoke anything other than an AP History lesson.

They could have followed RYAN'S HOPE's lead and just showcased both black and white characters cavorting around the streets of Chicago and it would've given the audience a better sense of the show.

So much this! An opening sequence is meant to be something to look forward to when watching a show just as much as watching it. In many cases, this also goes for films such as James Bond movies or Mission Impossible films. That sequence and the accompanying theme help set the tone for what fans/viewers can expect from what they are about to watch/spend the next two hours giving their undivided attention.

The classic "General Hospital" opening prepared you for all the drama and the switch later on to the Dave Koz version with "Faces of the Heart." That iconic theme is much missed compared to the lazy theme we have today. That theme screamed action, adventure, excitement, romance and family. I always looked forward to hearing it at the Daytime Emmys. In fact, I looked forward to hearing it more and cared less who from the show itself won. As for the visuals, as I said, it screamed all the aforementioned things and showed me as a viewer what I would get from the show. And I was happy to suck it all in every day.

I barely had any memories when Ryan's Hope was on, but I did hear/watch the opening for that show at some point. It was definitely for the 80s. Not sure it would have worked in the 90s and beyond.

Back to Generations...the opening not only gave a '70s look but also definitely made you think you were watching some rerun of a show from that era before you actually got to see what was going on. That's a bad impression for a brand new show. Just sayin'

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

The Generations theme and visuals suggested to me we were in store for a Waltons type family show, possibly set in the past.

Yes, there should have been more up to date music and visuals. Something showing Chicago landmarks and cast, as Khan suggested.

There were some fundamental mistakes from the get go. That opening showing the fictional soap was awful, and viewers might have turned off immediately thinking it was the real thing. And it didn't serve any real purpose moving forward.

Then having your opening show centering on a middle age women? Pat Crowley was  attractive and good actress but it gave the impression she was the lead,which might have turned viewers off.

A lot of the casting was blah.

They needed a strong opening story with juicy secrets to be revealed.

Having the Marshall own an ice cream chain was dumb-they should have had a 'sexier' business that could propel alot of story.

And James Reynolds and Debbi Morgan should have been cast from the get go. That would have got a lot of attention and showed they were serious about the Black characters.

Exactly. The wrong theme for a late '80s/early 90s show. The opening was 2-3 decades late.

Agreed again. It should have been showing the dynamics of families through multiple Generations, not reminding people that black people were slaves dating back centuries. It's depressing enough to think about in real-life, but to lead viewers to believe that's what your show is about before you even present a storyline is poor decision-making on the production side.

A theme should tie together like a glove with what the show is about. Again, the people behind Generations did themselves in with that piss-poor opening. And don't tell me black people were watching Y&R. Contrary to executive beliefs, groups can watch more than one thing at the same time. Some can watch one, and others can watch the other. Not a single group is stuck watching only one show because they happen to have that groups race/culture.

I only remember the iconic actors from the show, not much else about the show overall. Sadly.

Seriously, an ice cream chain was the basis of storytelling on soap? Imagine if this show lasted for more than 2 years and beyond. How long did they think ice cream could be the center of a storyline? Maybe if it were a coffee shop...

I could care less about who they cast or how serious they were about black characters. I cared that the show itself knew what it was supposed to be about. They clearly didn't from the start.

24 minutes ago, Errol said:

So much this! An opening sequence is meant to be something to look forward to when watching a show just as much as watching it. In many cases, this also goes for films such as James Bond movies or Mission Impossible films. That sequence and the accompanying theme help set the tone for what fans/viewers can expect from what they are about to watch/spend the next two hours giving their undivided attention.

The classic "General Hospital" opening prepared you for all the drama and the switch later on to the Dave Koz version with "Faces of the Heart." That iconic theme is much missed compared to the lazy theme we have today. That theme screamed action, adventure, excitement, romance and family. I always looked forward to hearing it at the Daytime Emmys. In fact, I looked forward to hearing it more and cared less who from the show itself won. As for the visuals, as I said, it screamed all the aforementioned things and showed me as a viewer what I would get from the show. And I was happy to suck it all in every day.

I barely had any memories when Ryan's Hope was on, but I did hear/watch the opening for that show at some point. It was definitely for the 80s. Not sure it would have worked in the 90s and beyond.

Back to Generations...the opening not only gave a '70s look but also definitely made you think you were watching some rerun of a show from that era before you actually got to see what was going on. That's a bad impression for a brand new show. Just sayin'

Exactly. The wrong theme for a late '80s/early 90s show. The opening was 2-3 decades late.

Agreed again. It should have been showing the dynamics of families through multiple Generations, not reminding people that black people were slaves dating back centuries. It's depressing enough to think about in real-life, but to lead viewers to believe that's what your show is about before you even present a storyline is poor decision-making on the production side.

A theme should tie together like a glove with what the show is about. Again, the people behind Generations did themselves in with that piss-poor opening. And don't tell me black people were watching Y&R. Contrary to executive beliefs, groups can watch more than one thing at the same time. Some can watch one, and others can watch the other. Not a single group is stuck watching only one show because they happen to have that groups race/culture.

I only remember the iconic actors from the show, not much else about the show overall. Sadly.

Seriously, an ice cream chain was the basis of storytelling on soap? Imagine if this show lasted for more than 2 years and beyond. How long did they think ice cream could be the center of a storyline? Maybe if it were a coffee shop...

I could care less about who they cast or how serious they were about black characters. I cared that the show itself knew what it was supposed to be about. They clearly didn't from the start.

One thing about Generations which was I believe singular at that time. Immediately upon its cancellation, BET negotiated & bought the rights to air it an unknown amount of times. They showed it more than once definitely & I believe more than twice. I thought two things, which is a kind of a duality thing I do. One, how great that they did that. Two, I wonder if they supported it while it was on!!! And, I bet they didn't because if they did, it would have been known.

A show can always be improved upon if it is still on the air! 

5 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

The Generations theme and visuals suggested to me we were in store for a Waltons type family show, possibly set in the past.

Exactly right. It didn't exactly scream glamour and passion - maybe that was a conscious decision in the sense that it's the type of show that does well in syndication reruns, but it's not something that soap viewers would specifically tune into daily. But in all honesty, besides "the first show focusing on black characters" I just don't get the feeling there was much of a pitch. I guess in that sense I feel the same way towards Generations that I do towards Loving - it just feels dated and not really that well-defined. It probably doesn't help that the time slot hadn't housed a soap in the past few years after Search was cancelled.

 

5 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Having the Marshall own an ice cream chain was dumb-they should have had a 'sexier' business that could propel alot of story.

Maybe they could've had a production company since they started with the "fake soap" opening - one that ironically would focus on white characters despite the company itself being run by black people. It would've at least opened up some conflict, I guess social commentary and would've been a "sexier" and more exciting business. 

19 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

The Generations theme and visuals suggested to me we were in store for a Waltons type family show, possibly set in the past.

Exactly.  The opening theme and visuals did not match the show's content at all. 

Even promos for GENERATIONS (created by NBC's own ad department!) could be misleading.  As one poster mentioned eons ago, the writing for the African-American characters was often "safe" and bland.  Yet, the promos suggested that the show, and its' AA contingent, had more "soul" than "Soul Train"!

I also agree that making the Marshalls the proprietors of a chain of ice cream parlors was a stupid idea.  I mean, who the [!@#$%^&*] CARES about an ice cream company?  If I had created GENERATIONS, I think I would've been inspired to make the family business either "Marshall Communications," which would have been a conglomerate of newspapers, TV and radio stations throughout the Midwest, Northeast and Southeast regions; or a company that manufactured hair care products and cosmetics for the so-called "urban market" (sort of a Black Jabot, if you will).

4 minutes ago, Khan said:

I think I would've been inspired to make the family business either "Marshall Communications," which would have been a conglomerate of newspapers, TV and radio stations throughout the Midwest, Northeast and Southeast regions; or a company that manufactured hair care products and cosmetics for the so-called "urban market" (sort of a Black Jabot, if you will).

Yes, exactly. Make the conflict about how a black family owned business would promote "white"* families for profit. This could've been a controversial soap opera forcing people to tune in because it showed how cynical the business is, and ultimately lead to progression! 

 

* I throw in "" because of how we know diversity is often sold in ads where you have one family member of "ambigious" race.

18 hours ago, Errol said:

See, I loved the "Cheers" opening. It didn't really have anything to do with the characters, but it centered on camaraderie within a bar.

As James Burrows (?) once said, the beauty about the "Cheers" opening is how it gave you the impression of the bar as a place you'd want to hang out at every week; when, in fact, the bar was filled with miserable folks who often ridiculed and insulted each other.  Yet, because of the theme song, everyone still remembers the bar as The Place Where Everybody Knows Your Name.

18 hours ago, Errol said:

I agree that the "Generations" look reminded me of "Cheers" in that regard. 

I don't feel the "Generations" theme evoked that, as you only got a glimpse of the cast in the last 2 seconds of the opening before the title appeared to close it out.

Ironically, I think if you were to strip away the "whites vs. blacks" angle, switch out some of the other visuals with those like what we saw on "Cheers," but otherwise kept the theme as it was/is, the concept behind the GENERATIONS theme/opening would have fit much better on RYAN'S HOPE, showing how the bar, the family that owns it and its' regulars have been constants through decades of tumultuous change.  Much more appropriate for that show, I think, than RH's actual openings (which didn't even feature the bar!).

19 hours ago, Errol said:

The classic "General Hospital" opening prepared you for all the drama and the switch later on to the Dave Koz version with "Faces of the Heart." That iconic theme is much missed compared to the lazy theme we have today.

And the thing is, all TPTB needed to do was to bring back/update the "Autumn Breeze" opening, with an ambulance speeding past present-day GH.  It still works on so many levels.  It can be brief, which is a plus in a day and age that's all about squeezing in more time for ads; there aren't any cast member shots, so no need to update or rotate every contract cycle (which saves money!); and it can evoke all sorts of emotions for viewers both longtime and new.

Even an opening like DAYS' hourglass opening still works, because of what it conjures up for the audience: family, tradition, high romance, DRAMA!!!  The DAYS of 2023 is a far, far cry from the DAYS of 1965, but that theme and opening provides some sense of continuity to the show, serving as a bridge of sorts between "old" and "new."  (If only they had kept the version of the theme song that played during the "Melaswen" arc....).

GENERATIONS was a show that was CRYING OUT for a theme song performed by Jeffrey Osborne or Patti Austin, not an "Entertainer" soundalike.

On the one hand, I feel sorry for Sally Sussman, who had to watch her creation die a quick, ignoble death.  But, on the other hand, I don't think NBC was so reticent about the show because of its' integrated canvas.  I think that tells only part of the story behind their decision to axe the show after only two years.  If it had been better made, by people who had had a stronger track record for that type of soap (like, say, Agnes Nixon?), I think NBC would have stuck it out a little longer and weathered whatever controversies came their way.  But, the fact is, I think the network recognized right away that they had been sold a bill of goods - I mean, really, Sally, the main (African-American) family on your show runs an ice cream company??? - and just looked for the first opportunity to bail without it looking as if they were dumping it because half the cast happened to be Black.

6 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

But, the fact is, I think the network recognized right away that they had been sold a bill of goods - I mean, really, Sally, the main (African-American) family on your show runs an ice cream company??? - and just looked for the first opportunity to bail without it looking as if they were dumping it because half the cast happened to be Black.

Although it could just be that NBC did a pisspoor job of promoting their soaps & were quick to cancel rather than allowing time for a show to grow with or without necessary retooling. NBC was always unhappy with their place in the pecking order but NBC did the worst job of supporting the soaps they had at any given moment. In effect they deserved to be third out of three. 

15 hours ago, te. said:

But in all honesty, besides "the first show focusing on black characters" I just don't get the feeling there was much of a pitch. I guess in that sense I feel the same way towards Generations that I do towards Loving - it just feels dated and not really that well-defined.

Perhaps you're right.  As far as the thirty-minute, non-Bell-produced soaps go, I think CAPITOL had one of the stronger pitches: the saga of two of Washington, D.C.'s most prominent families, linked together by history and star-crossed romance.  There, you have the multi-generational, family drama, set against the backdrop of U.S. politics, with romance and intrigue of all sorts implied.  Even if the actual show often came up short, the whole "the passion for power...the power of passion" motif still encouraged the uninitiated at least to sample it.  Again, as I've said before, all GENERATIONS seemed to be saying was, "Hey, Blacks are people, too!".

Edited November 30, 20232 yr by Khan

3 minutes ago, Khan said:

Perhaps you're right.  As far as the thirty-minute, non-Bell-produced soaps go, I think CAPITOL had one of the stronger pitches: the saga of two of Washington, D.C.'s most prominent families, linked together by history and star-crossed romance.  There, you have the multi-generational, family drama, set against the backdrop of U.S. politics, with romance and intrigue of all sorts implied.  Even if the actual show often came up short, the whole "the passion for power...the power of passion" motif still encouraged the uninitiated at least to sample it.  Again, as I've said before, all GENERATIONS seemed to be saying was, "Hey, Blacks are people, too!".

It's the 30 second elevator pitch isn't it? Describe a show and get people interested.

 

Loving and Generations just didn't have that.

41 minutes ago, te. said:

It's the 30 second elevator pitch isn't it? Describe a show and get people interested.

Exactly.  Every show is a family show, and every story is a love story.  But why THIS family, or families?  Why THIS love story?

If all you've got for GENERATIONS is, "Well, one of the main families on the show is black," well, so what?  What is so unique about THIS black family?  Even "The Cosby Show" wasn't JUST about a black family.  What separated it from other black sitcoms was that it was about a black family that was (a) headed by two, college-educated professionals who (b) commanded and demanded respect from their children without resorting to violence or threats of violence.  (IOW, you didn't have Cliff or Clair threatening to get their belts whenever one of their kids talked back to them).  Not so unusual among black families IRL, but definitely not what audiences, black AND white, were used to seeing on TV in 1984.

My view of the Generations opening titles has always been that it came out in an era where baby boomers were ready to be retrospective about literally anything/everything from the previous 40 years. The Wonder Years, Quantum Leap, Platoon, a resurgence of the Monkees and the Beach Boys, etc. Couple that with the era also being about very safe/wholesome depictions of black people in the US (The Cosby Show, the push for MLK Day, etc.), and you end up with a history of America from Jim Crow to Debbi Morgan in just under a minute.

Loving should have focused more on the college and less on the families (with a more interesting title).

Edited November 30, 20232 yr by All My Shadows

23 minutes ago, All My Shadows said:

you end up with a history of America from Jim Crow to Debbi Morgan in just under a minute.

LOL!!

When Y&R premiered, in 1973, the country was undergoing tremendous social and political upheaval.  Our youth was upending norms of all kinds.  Their changing outlook, in turn, informed a lot of Y&R's initial storylines. 

By that same token, in 1983, as we were in the midst of the Reagan era, the country was once again experiencing change, as economic disparities were, in a sense, creating TWO Americas: one, for its' wealthiest citizens; and the other, for everyone else.  (The more things change, lol).

I feel like LOVING should have taken advantage of the moment and delved more into the economic conflicts of the period.  Soaps had been built on contrasting families for the longest time, but by the time LOVING premiered, you had an opportunity to explore the economic inequalities that defined most families in this country like never before.  You could do more than just pay lip service to the idea of one family being rich and one being poor; you could dramatize on a daily basis what that really means, at a time when it's foremost on your audience's minds.

And yeah, they should have come up with a better-sounding title for their show, too.

Edited November 30, 20232 yr by Khan