Members Roman Posted December 30, 2017 Members Share Posted December 30, 2017 I loved it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted December 30, 2017 Members Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) In ODAAT's case, however, I think such a move was inevitable given the fact that Julie and Barbara had become young women. Part of the series' original premise was a divorced woman raising her children alone. Well, what do you do when the children are just about ready to leave the nest, but the show is still bringing in ratings and revenue for the network? As it is, they had to create an excuse for Barbara (and later, Barbara and Mark) to move back in with Ann after she had moved in with some of her friends from the local community college. I've often wondered whether Nick was killed off, because Bonnie Franklin was still resistant to the idea of Ann remarrying. But, if that were true, then how do you explain her eventually marrying Sam (other than, as I suspect, she knew the show was winding down, and "WKRP in Cincinnati" was over, but CBS didn't want to lose Howard Hesseman)? For me, ODAAT, in its final seasons, suffered from the same problem that plagued "Roseanne" in ITS final years. Namely, the cast had grown too large, and the show had strayed too far from its original premise. At one point, I think, the ODAAT cast consisted of Bonnie Franklin, Pat Harrington, Jr., Mackenzie Phillips, Valerie Bertinelli, Michael Lembeck, Boyd Gaines, Glenn Scarpelli, Nanette Fabray, Shelley Fabares AND Howard Hesseman. True, not every character was featured in every episode. Nevertheless, ten characters is an awful lot to have to service on an average sitcom, even when some of those characters are recurring. (Just ask the producers of "Cheers.") Edited December 30, 2017 by Khan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted December 30, 2017 Members Share Posted December 30, 2017 Agree. Even after Mack had sobered up the first time and was back on the show, you could tell there was a concerted effort not to rely as much on Julie out of fear that she would mess up again (which, unfortunately, she did). For that reason, they needed to rely more on Barbara (and later, Alex). However, without unpredictable Julie, ODAAT as a whole lost that unique quality that I think made the show the hit that it was at the beginning. The show was still good, but not AS good. Ironically, in the original pilot, Ann had only the one daughter, who was Julie. Barbara was added when execs at CBS felt the pilot lacked something. So, just imagine if Mack had had her off-screen problems AND the show had gone on the air as originally pitched. In a way, I'm sort of glad the spinoff with Barbara, Julie and their husbands never happened, if only because I feel like the finished product would have been as toothless as most of Embassy Television's shows were at that point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted December 31, 2017 Members Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) Frankly, I don't believe Dick Bensfield and Perry Grant ever threw in the towel on Phillips and her problems. I mean, if they had, then they could have just as easily killed off Julie. I think they still held out hope -- a dim hope, but hope nevertheless -- that she could rally again, and that she would be able and willing to return even to a show that was clearly winding down after a long, healthy run. It's just that time ran out -- and that she was too far gone at that point -- before that could happen. For the longest time, I held out my own hopes that someone would persuade some network to do a true ODAAT reunion movie, one where Julie returned to Indianapolis after so many years away in order to make amends with her family, and especially with Annie, who'd be a grown woman by now, and maybe married, or in a long-term relationship with a swell guy (...or girl...) but reluctant to tie the knot given her family's history. Unfortunately, Bonnie Franklin's death killed that dream. Agree. Valerie Bertinelli was like America's Sweetheart. No WAY would fans have tolerated "Barbie Cooper" cheating on her husband, especially with her brother-in-law. Michael Lembeck had chemistry with all the women on the show, including Bonnie Franklin and (strange as this might sound) Nanette Fabray. He just had that ability to mesh well with the females in the cast. Edited December 31, 2017 by Khan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted December 31, 2017 Members Share Posted December 31, 2017 And every excuse made to keep her and Ann in each other's orbit was just beyond stupid. As much as I like Shelley Fabares, I have to admit that I am stumped as to what the producers saw in the dynamic between her character and Bonnie Franklin's. I mean, they were obviously never going to be girlfriends like Mary and Rhoda. (They had tried to give Ann a ride-or-die in the form of Ginny Wrobliki, but all that did was prove that Bonnie Franklin was totally unconvincing as someone who's supposed to have a female best friend.) But, Francine and Ann never worked as frenemies either, precisely because it made zero sense to keep Francine in Ann's life even as a reluctant business partner. Honestly, I just never got it. Except, in the first season, when Julie and then-boyfriend Chuck were arguing, because he was ready to go all the way and she wasn't. Man, but that moment was so badly directed. I never understood that moment, for the simple fact that I don't think it was Ann who screwed up with Julie. Ann always called Julie on her bullshit. If anything, I blame Julie's deficiencies on her father, Ed, who always seemed to be the more indulgent parent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Soapsuds Posted December 31, 2017 Members Share Posted December 31, 2017 @Khan And if you look carefully in season 1....you can see the microphone hanging down next to the actors head...LOL. i thought Chuck was hot and I can see how Julie was so enthralled with him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted December 31, 2017 Members Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) I do, too. In fact, I like to pretend this, and not the back-door pilot for Schneider's new life with the circus, was the show's final episode. And the moment when Ann closes the apartment door for the last time? THAT is the moment I always wanted to see with Florida Evans on "Good Times." For me, it wasn't enough for each member of the Evans family to have found their proverbial pot of gold at the end of the proverbial rainbow. I also wanted (and still want, every time I watch the last episode) a moment where Florida takes a final look at the Evans' now-empty apartment, maybe recalls something she and/or James said about getting out of the ghetto someday, and then closes the door. The actor playing Chuck probably couldn't see it. According to Phillips, he "couldn't see for [!@#$%^&*]." I'm kind of like Roseanne in that I always thought Max and Julie, and Mark and Barbara, were all wrong for each other. Pairing Julie with someone like Mark, and Barbara with someone more like Max, would have been so much more interesting to watch. Edited December 31, 2017 by Khan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Soapsuds Posted December 31, 2017 Members Share Posted December 31, 2017 All we saw was Florida and Willona jumping up and down and hugging when they found out they'd be neighbors again. As much as I would miss seeing them as neighbors they should have gone their separate ways. And Willona saying she had become head buyer at her boutique was ridiculous since seasons earlier she had already become head buyer at the boutique...LOL. Obviously, the writers forgot what they had written before. As for ODAAT.....did Phillips not get along with the actor who played Chuck?? Max was the male version of Ann and Barbara married herself(Mark)....LOL I thought Max was another babysitter/mother paired with Julie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted December 31, 2017 Members Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) I pretend that Willona THOUGHT she had the job before, but one of her co-workers went over her head and persuaded the owner/manager to give the job to her instead. Just as I pretend that Florida had plans to return to Carl in Arizona after Thelma's wedding, but when she received word that he had died and requested no memorial service, she elected to remain in Chicago. (Either that, or Carl dumped her for Dee and Raj's mom. Believe me, when you're a regular "Good Times" watcher, you learn how to fill in the blanks.) Edited December 31, 2017 by Khan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Soapsuds Posted December 31, 2017 Members Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) Please register in order to view this content I was like WTF she already is head buyer of the boutique. The writers should've made her manager of the boutique instead for the ending. Also, both moving into the same complex for me made it seemed like they were just moving to a better ghetto. That's why I would have preferred Keith sign with an LA team and they move to the west coast while Willona was transferred as manger to a boutique in NY city. The Carl stuff was just weird. YESSSSSSSSS Mom is coming to the wedding and no mention of Carl and poof she stays after the wedding with no mention of Carl....LMAO. That sure was a fill in the blank moment. Edited December 31, 2017 by Soapsuds 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted December 31, 2017 Members Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) It's worth pointing out that IIRC the Max/Barbara thing was only in the last episode before the series finale. I liked that too. I'd forgotten about it. But I do think it's also only there because they had no other option. Did Alex even get an exit or mention when he left? Edited December 31, 2017 by Vee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted December 31, 2017 Members Share Posted December 31, 2017 IIRC, Alex didn't get a farewell, per se. Instead, one of the other characters mentioned in passing that he had gone to Europe to be with his mother. Esther Rolle made that one of the conditions for her return. The writers were to make no mention of Carl, as she felt the whole relationship between them to be dishonest. (Florida never would've married after losing James, she said, and she never would've been involved with an atheist.) You're right, Vee, about there being no other option. It wasn't like on the final episode of "The Cosby Show," when they had Denise call the family from overseas, even though everyone knew there was not a chance in hell of Lisa Bonet coming back (not even for the finale). Julie couldn't have called Ann to wish her well, because that would have been too damn awkward. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Soapsuds Posted December 31, 2017 Members Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) The theme song is superb! So Phillips did make it to season 9 but I think she was only on one or two episodes and then written out. Edited December 31, 2017 by Soapsuds 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted December 31, 2017 Members Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) Perhaps a more knowledgeable soul might be able to answer this question: Did Valerie Bertinelli wear the same wedding dress both to her on-screen wedding and to her real-life wedding to Eddie Van Halen? IIRC, a big reason why Barbara got married in the first place (and why the episode was so highly rated) was because Valerie and Eddie's wedding was still big news and the show wanted to capitalize on it. Pretty much. She looked...okay during the previous season, but by the start of S9, it was clear she was deteriorating. Edited December 31, 2017 by Khan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Soapsuds Posted December 31, 2017 Members Share Posted December 31, 2017 Lawd look at this outstanding line-up. I watched it all. How I miss Sundays on CBS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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