Empire: Discussion Thread

[ajsp35801]

There is inherent misogyny in the bolded statement but I won't get into it other than to say that it really rankles when people act like behaving in a manner that people perceive as feminine is considered an insult or weak. And this isn't just for men...I've seen it used against women as well.

I understand why the show went out of the way to do this. However, it steps on my toes.

Edited March 10, 2015 by ajsp35801

[Vee]

No, I don't think there is inherent misogyny in what I said at all, actually. You're missing my point.

I am certainly not the butchest queen on the block, I can get pretty flaming all the time and I have absolutely no apologies for it. I think there are all different kinds of manhood and masculinity, different ways of demonstrating that, and I don't classify myself as butch or femme or whatever else. None of us are just one thing. But you and I both know that there is a large cross-section of the American audience that has real difficulty seeing a gay character as being conventionally strong, masculine or forceful. That's a fact. Jamal smashes that stereotype and I think it's good that he does. We have to show people we are capable of being more than just the quiet, sensitive male that so much of TV sells to us. They use the best and most kind parts of us to highlight on television as a way of neutering us. Jamal can be quiet and sensitive, but he's also strong and passionate and he makes some of the heterosexual viewership uncomfortable by showing himself to be the equal of any of the straight male characters. That is important.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Vee

[Juliajms]

I get what you're saying Vee. I don't know a ton of gay men IRL, so it always confused me why TV equated being gay with being feminine. It's always struck me as very odd. Even at the beginning of Empire I kept wondering why people were calling Jamal a "sissy".

[DeeeDee]

As happy as I am about the writing for Jamal, I don't think the writers will invest the same effort into Andre.

With Hakeem I can understand the writers relative lack of focus because Yazz isn't as strong an actor as Trai & Jussie (nor is Hakeem a credible choice to run Empire) but Trai has proven he's as strong (if not stronger) an actor as Jussie & he deserves better than to be a supporting player in Jamal's journey to become the next CEO of Empire.

Edited March 10, 2015 by DeeeDee

[MoTheGreat]

Somebody finally getting what my mumblings is about.

[MoTheGreat]

That's what I'm saying, with Andre sickness he already have an handicap. They already said that you got to be healthy to get the IPO or whatever it is.

[ajsp35801]

You know what...any other time I'd tell you to suck it up. This is one show where a person from a marginalized group is being pushed above every one else while every other show on TV is catering to the mainstream group. However, these people aren't white. The airwaves aren't exactly over filled with straight black characters getting their due either. Let alone one with a mental disability. The Andres are just as scarce as the Jamals. So instead, I'll say..

+1

Trai (and Andre) definitely deserves better than to be a supporting player when the show wasnt originally touted as "Jamal's Journey". I'm sure that's not what he signed up for.

Edited March 11, 2015 by ajsp35801

[DeeeDee]

I think if the Lucious (and by extension the show) weren't so set on having a "celebrity" be the next CEO, I'd feel less bothered by Jamal's arc.

Because Empire's a soap Hakeem will inevitably grow into a mature businessman to challenge Jamal's position as the next head of the company but as Andre said Lucious will never value him because he isn't musically inclined which means the highest he can ever rise is his current position as Empire's CFO.

After factoring in Lucious feelings about Rhonda & Dre's mental illness (which the show has devoted much less time to making sympathetic than Jamal's sexuality) as ajsp's already said Andre's journey (in terms of running Empire) is done before it's even begun.

Edited March 11, 2015 by DeeeDee

[ajsp35801]

That we know that Trai can sing, there is always a possibility that Andre not being an artist can change. I suspect that it will. Or I hope it does because it would make the battle for successor more interesting. It's not very right now because the choice is obvious.

[ajsp35801]

That's an old school term for being gay. I have never heard it used by anyone under the age of 60. It's very passe'. But I guess Lee Daniels grew up hearing it and think it's stilL popular. It's not. I was also taken aback by the use of it from Lucious and Jamal, both of whom are way too young to use the term. If it was Jamals grandmother using it, I'd understand. It just doesn't make sense to me at all for younger people to say that!!! It really annoys me!!!!!

[DeeeDee]

Trai's said in several interviews he doesn't think the show is going to incorporate his ability to sing into the story.

He feels it makes Andre a stronger, more interesting character (though I'm not inclined to agree).

[ajsp35801]

Lord!!! It makes Andre an outsider in all things is what it does. But if that's the characterization they are going for then it works. However, it makes the battle for presumptive CEO extremely lame.

[MoTheGreat]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomalleygreenburg/2015/03/11/six-reasons-empires-lucious-lyon-is-a-terrible-label-boss/

What makes Lyon’s streaming myopia even more unforgivable is the fact that he’s got an obvious solution staring him right in his angrily contorted face: his Wharton-educated son, Andre, the only Empire Entertainment employee who has even mentioned the word “streaming.”

Andre actually has a pretty interesting plan, one that he outlines to a frustrated rock star who’s thinking of leaving the label. He says Empire will start its own streaming service and share royalties with artists.

[MoTheGreat]

See, I thought it was about the brothers & how they relate to each other, parents, the job, & friends

[ajsp35801]

It is about that. Except it's clear that one brother is the favorite with the writers