Members John Posted September 12, 2013 Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 But it wasn’t just the editing that changed once Gottlieb took control. In fact, she overhauled a number of things, some of which worked brilliantly (the hiring of new head writers Michael Malone and Josh Griffith) and some of which weren’t as well-received (new opening credits and a short-lived attempt to rely on more self-contained stories with shorter arcs). Howie Zeidman: Linda changed everything about the opening credits -- the logo, that champagne glass, everything. I remember they screened it for everyone in the studio, and there was complete silence after it ended. Not good. Very awkward. Peter Miner: Those short-arc stories completely lost all the fans, because the characters they wanted to see weren’t there. Giles, Jeff (2013-09-09). Llanview in the Afternoon: An Oral History of One Life to Live (Kindle Locations 3215-3223). . Kindle Edition. Yeah that opening from 1992-94 seemed very porn like to me. The couple making out then the champenge over-flowing which symbolized to me sperm flowing than the new born baby. I was like What the !@#$%^&*]!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cassadine1991 Posted September 12, 2013 Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 Compared to the openings we got after, I'd welcome the Satin Sheets opening again I can't picture Erika Slezak saying those things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Darn Posted September 12, 2013 Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 So Ellen Holly only tells the truth about things we want to agree with? Like Paul Rauch being an dick? And I doubt she was meant to be quoting Erika or Agnes verbatim. You all realize that this stuff happened less than 20 years after the Civil Rights movement and that minority representation has actually decreased on daytime over the last 30 years? I love Erika Slezak and Agnes Nixon but they are still white women of a certain age raised in a particular time, it's not impossible that they said or inferred these things. Seriously, grow up, read a book, stop dismissing things you dislike as crazy. Anyway, I want to read this but I'd like the printed edition. Might just end up printing it off at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted September 12, 2013 Author Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 I've read it, and I don't believe it for a second. I think at this point Holly might believe it happened, but I do not. Erika responds to that story and denies it, much like she's denied other claims - and actually, the only other incident was Holly misinterpreting a quote she had in a soap magazine during the Rauch era, where Erika was critiquing the all-white state of the show - and talked at length about Ellen Holly in the past, flat-out; she remains complimentary about her to this day, despite these stories. And Erika isn't exactly keeping her earrings and makeup in her interviews for this book. She's never evaded the issue, unlike Agnes. And here Nixon actually addresses the issue of Holly upfront. Agnes Nixon may be a sly operator, but she could've completely glossed over the issue here as she has in the past and done the sweet old lady act, and she doesn't. She says Holly hates her now. There's a lot of time in the book devoted to Ellen Holly, and more specifically to the clash over casting Jack Scott with Arthur Burghardt, which she desperately did not want and who everyone in the cast hated. And she absolutely deserves to be heard. But around the time she started making sub-Geocities websites ranting about how Agnes Nixon personally used and abused her like a slave and destroyed her in show business - and Agnes had long since walked off of OLTL by the time Holly first quit the show - it just became really, really sad IMO. And there's a fair bit of that in the book, with Holly claiming Agnes personally destroyed her. That's not what happened, AFAIC. A lot of other things deeply, cancerously ingrained in the DNA of the daytime industry happened to Ellen Holly, as well as to other performers of color, and it's a stain the show has never righted. But at this point, after hearing her out many a time I have to sadly say that I think her recollection and POV is deeply affected by a lot of curdled resentment and unresolved conflicts. I wish it could be settled peaceably with the people involved, but I don't think she has any interest in that. I don't think anything would be enough to make her okay with it, and that's probably more than fair but I also don't think it's the fault of Erika Slezak or Agnes Nixon. If anything, in recent years she's doubled or tripled down. She's even taking a couple sideways shots at Al Freeman Jr. in the book, despite her obvious love and respect for him. I just don't know what to say about it at this point. I should say I believe I also remember Holly referencing the Tavern on the Green party story in her book, and absolutely no mention of Slezak saying that is in there. I have no doubt that ABC or the show shuffled her and Lillian Hayman off stage left for that photo, but the people she casts in that scenario is a late in the day addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members allmc2008 Posted September 12, 2013 Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 Just because a person is white and grew up during the 60's doesn't mean that person is racist. It isn't as if there was a sudden generation born with a "Minority-Liberating Gene" built into there DNA then suddenly we have protests. People who opposed racism were on earth just as long as people who promoted it, it just wasn't until the 50s/60s when people began to be open about it. Television also helped as well because news coverage hit the masses at once. People like Agnes Nixon are the reasons why the world is different today. If she was Racist why would she create black characters as Doctors and Lawyers? People are mainly questioning Ellen Holly because it seems like just yesterday she loved Agnes then now she hates her. She was even being interviewed as part of the Lifetime Intimate Portrait interview and said wonderful things. Just jump to 2:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted September 12, 2013 Author Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 Yeah, we know about these things long before you decide you have to post them. That interview was over a decade ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Darn Posted September 12, 2013 Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 You wish I had said this...but I didn't so what the hell are you talking about? As for the rest I'm not even going to respond to because I'm genuinely sorry that you're not very bright. Re: Vee's post. You're probably right about all of that, I was just irritated by how dismissive her complaints usually get treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members allmc2008 Posted September 12, 2013 Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 You basically stated that white people who grew up during the 60s are all racist. I am also sorry that you are not very bright either because you know it is the truth and I know you are just trying to raise hell over an issue that you have no backing for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted September 12, 2013 Author Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 I agree. I think that's no way to talk about her when we weren't there and don't know the full dimensions of the situation over the years, but we do know what became of Ellen Holly and a lot of men and women of color like her in this industry. I may not agree with a lot of what she's saying of late, particularly the aspersions about Slezak or Nixon - who I think is, at core, a relentlessly practical businesswoman who made hard choices for her business, and might have been able to do more for Holly or might not have - but I think Holly's story, and all the angles on it, must always be present. He absolutely did not say that. You have been on this board ten minutes and think you've got it on lock because you have YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Posted September 12, 2013 Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 RE: Frons Ilene Kristen: It was very hard the last 10 years with that guy around. He had very little respect for the medium, or the producers, or the writing team. Just because you want to see a 24-year-old girl in her underwear all the time doesn't mean that's what the audience wants to see. Getting older in this business isn't easy. That's why I stay in shape and make sure I can fit into a size two pair of jeans. Giles, Jeff (2013-09-09). Llanview in the Afternoon: An Oral History of One Life to Live (Kindle Locations 4918-4923). . Kindle Edition. I wonder if this was during The Stacy Morsaco Mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Posted September 12, 2013 Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 I hope this woman is never allowed to produce TV ever again Jozie Emmerich: Poor Brian Frons -- he’s not the ultimate killer of the daytime drama, as much as people would like to say so. I do think it’s horrifying that those two shows were canceled on his watch, because they were owned and operated series -- they were profit centers. But ultimately, other things got in the way, and I can understand how. If a show is 40 or 50 years old , it gets very expensive to keep the same people. It gets more expensive on every level. And obviously , the profit margin has changed. Certainly, the ratings have gone down. How do you charge an advertising agency for a spot? And quite frankly, I don’t think the shows are as good as they used to be. Giles, Jeff (2013-09-09). Llanview in the Afternoon: An Oral History of One Life to Live (Kindle Locations 5013-5018). . Kindle Edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members quartermainefan Posted September 12, 2013 Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 I am onky half way through but one of the most interesting people in the book is Paul Rauch. To read what they all say about his insensitive, brutish ways and how if you were casting an evil producer you would cast him really tells only half the story because almost to the last comment they almost all say he was incredibly talented, knew his job well, had a vision and they would all work with him again. One person even said the moment they fired Rauch was the moment OLTL started its decline. He must have been a very interesting individual. As for Ellen Holly's statement about Slezak and black bitches (or whatever the exact word was), this I would be a little skeptical about. First of course Slezak denies it, so that is a wash in the she said/she said dept. But then, how did Ellen Holly know Slezak made the comment to Nixon? Did Nixon run to tell her? Or are we to assume that Slezak is so lacking in political skills that she just blurted that out at Tavern on The Green in front of Holly--and Holly alone? No one else seems to have heard the comment, or at least if anyone did hear it they didn't come forward. It's a bit of a stretch because even in 1982 people did not go around Manhattan saying "Hey you black bitch, get out of my face" while at Tavern On The Green. I was in 1982, and it wasn't Alabama circa 1955. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melador Posted September 12, 2013 Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 Paperback version is now available on Amazon !!! Just purchased it for $11.74 Got next day delivery so I can take it on my beach vacation down south - can't wait to read !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cassadine1991 Posted September 12, 2013 Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 I going to order that ASAP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MissLlanviewPA Posted September 12, 2013 Members Share Posted September 12, 2013 I know it's an obvious question coming from me, but I have to ask: Were James DePaiva or Fiona Hutchison interviewed? I'd love to see the discussion about the year 1991 in particular, given how dramatic the change from Rauch to Gottlieb really was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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