Oh wow, I had no idea he was around that long and mingled with characters like that. Very interesting. LF was on Regis and Kathie-Lee years ago, maybe it was even Kelly at this point for the soap thing to come up, but he spoke highly of his time at One Life and name checked Ellen Holly, Al Freeman, Jr., and maybe even Erika Slezak. EH has mentioned Michael Kahn a couple times, she needs to get her tail down to the Shakespeare Theatre in D.C. Al Freeman, Jr. was in their all-black production of the Oedipus plays starring Avery Brooks and Petronia Paley. I think he still lives in D.C. as he had been teaching at Howard.

And a lot of that has to do with audience reaction and who the show chooses to push. Carla and Sadie could have been OLTL's answer to Rachel and Ada or Erica and Mona. But OLTL and a decent amount of audience sure as hell weren't ready to catapult a seductive, exotic, uppity, avaricious character who also happened to be black into true soap superstardom, particularly when miscegenation and casting a black character in a less than positive light would be called for in order to drive that archetype.

Was Carla's father meant to be white? Or do you mean misceganation later on in mixed couples?

(However she mentions Anna lee being kept on at ABC to her grave which we know wasn't true).

"After she sold the show to ABC in 1973, to retain control, she had created a permanent role for herself as show consultant. From that perch, she had continued the protocol. "

I thought Agnes lost all power in that respect at the time.

Edited December 18, 201113 yr by EricMontreal22

I meant as in Carla having more romantic entanglements with white men. I don't want to confuse OLTL with Imitation of Life, but I think it was stated or implied that Carla's dad was fair-skinned black. Though I always love the Victor Lord idea whenever it gets tossed around.

After LF left OLTL , Todd Davis Stepped in as Josh Hall 1977 but he didnt last long & Todd joined GH as Bryan Phillips in 1978 and left in 1987. Josh Hall returned to OLTL in 1985 played by Guy Davis who is the son of Ossie Davis & Ruby Dee. Josh left again in 1986

Edited December 18, 201113 yr by John

I think the Grays-as-Lords idea was dynamite, but I ultimately would shy away from it simply because I think it plays on the ancient racist trope of a powerful white man seducing and abandoning a black woman. I also have a hard time believing that the dignified Sadie who Lillian Hayman played would carry on with a man like Victor Lord, and then suffer in silence.

Holly also claims that Robert Milli and Peter De Anda (the first, younger Dr. Jim Craig and Price Trainor, respectively) were deliberately stripped from her story. I just don't see that. I think they'd likely had the outline of Jim ending up with Doris Belack's Anna Wolek floating around for a while, and that Nat Polen was seen to fit the bill for the patriarch character Jim became with Anna. I'm also not sure exactly when Milli left to do GL, where he played Roger Thorpe's father.

Edited December 18, 201113 yr by Vee

And I think that's the bottom line.

Say what you will about ES, but I think she is genuine when it comes to this issue. I don't think she was jealous of EH and LH's status on the show; and I don't think she enjoyed seeing OLTL "whitewashed" by producers and HW's under any circumstances.

Agnes Nixon, OTOH...? Well, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe she is just a racist b***h.

I do think it's interesting that EH doesn't mention Debbi Morgan at all--the only other black female soap star she mentions is Rowell.

On the other hand, there's nothing AN, or anyone else, could have done to save their jobs. Yes, AN was a "consultant" to OLTL, but what does that really mean? In most cases, consultants to this-or-that series offer suggestions when called upon, but if TPTB don't wish to incorporate those suggestions, they don't have to. As full owners of AMC and OLTL, ABC could have done (and did) with those shows whatever they wished, and no amount of bitch-pitching would have stopped them.

Frankly, although some will argue she was just using EH and LH again to save another one of her shows, I think it says a lot that AN offered to bring the two over to LOVING. I mean, it's not as if their joining would have translated into higher ratings for the show.

Meanwhile, I'd normally suggest getting Ellen Holly a job on Y&R (perhaps, as Sofia's mother). Unfortunately, that show's so bad off, I don't know.

The Museum of Broadcasting speech Ellen mentions is up as a video on AN's website. She makes it as clear as someone like AN ever would (ie someone who doesn't seem to like to talk badly about someone or something) that creatively by that time she had no involvement in OLTL really and wasn't a huge fan of a couple of their stories (thiw as 1988 I guess)

EH has mentioned Michael Kahn a couple times, she needs to get her tail down to the Shakespeare Theatre in D.C. Al Freeman, Jr. was in their all-black production of the Oedipus plays starring Avery Brooks and Petronia Paley.

Apparently, the "word on the street," as they say, is that D.C. is quickly supplanting Broadway as THE place for theater professionals. So, yeah, I DEFINITELY agree that at the very least, someone within that sphere should look her up.

AFJ has been teaching at Howard? Oh, please, don't tell me he had a hand in Julia Pace Mitchell's, um, development as an actress. Just don't.

Though I always love the Victor Lord idea whenever it gets tossed around.

To quote Vee: "Oh, Lord. No."

Thanks for the recap, SFK.

I wonder why Ellen turned down that offer. Unless she saw being brought to a struggling soap as some type of insult. Perhaps, she expected Agnes to offer her a role on AMC, which by that point had surpassed OLTL in the pop-culture stratosphere.

.

It's mainly conjecture, but that's my impression--that she saw it as an insult. It's too bad, as I think her and Lillian woul dhave been a good and welcome fit for Loving.

I'm also not sure exactly when Milli left to do GL, where he played Roger Thorpe's father.

I could be wrong, but I think RM first joined GUIDING LIGHT in 1972, a full four years after OLTL's premiere.

Yeah, I don't think Agnes had any control over how OLTL developed into the 80s. If she had, I'm sure things would likely have been quite different.

I'd have gone for the Lords thing if they'd said some prior ancestor had mixed with the Grays, but not Victor Lord and Sadie. I could not buy that.

ETA: Yeah, Khan, I figured it was some time later.

Holly also turned down a request to return for the anniversary in 1993, under Linda Gottlieb. That saddens me, but I also was heartbroken when reading her book as she talked about how she didn't know how she'd face a sea of OLTL veterans who were all financially secure, whom she could no longer relate to.

Edited December 18, 201113 yr by Vee

Yeah Roger came on in 71 so 72 makes sense

I do think it's interesting that EH doesn't mention Debbi Morgan at all--the only other black female soap star she mentions is Rowell.

I'd argue Debbi Morgan and Victoria Rowell are neck-and-neck when it comes to popularity, with Morgan perhaps having a slight edge due to being part of the Jesse/Angie phenomenon. But EH probably mentioned Rowell in order to make the point that there was a difference between Bill Bell regarded VR, and how ABC in general handled her.

Frankly, I suspect she didn't mention Debbi Morgan because that simply wouldn't support her thesis - which I don't agree with anyway.

I always forget that Milli and Polen were one and the same character. It's kind of like reverse Mac Cory casting. Agnes would recruit Milli once again for AMC. I believe he's still living, right?