TWO DAYS LEFT !!!

I finally watched the Babe/JR scenes - I think it's a textbook example of how to do a soap return. Very well written and some beautiful performances. It's too bad Babe was often given such poor writing, because Alexa Havens was luminous, as always. It was nice to see her again so I can forget the little I saw of that Torchwood thing where she just cried all the time while Mekhi Pfeiffer yelled in her ear. The scene which got me the most was when JR said she had to be alive, because why would David save so many others, but not his own daughter? And Babe just said, "Maybe he tried..." wistfully.

In Torchwood's defence (and this miniseries was a mixed bag from excellent to head scratching) you must have only tuned into the one episode where she did cry to Mekhi the whole time--because she basically didn't in any other episode

But yes, I agree about her return--and I rarely liked how they wrote her on the show prior. it was just long enough IMHO and added to the drama needed--and was very well played. For the most part the ghost returns (OK, well, her and Leo's--Gillian's doesn't even count as that was messed up), were better handled for me than the convulated Orpheus returns. I do think JR's actions would have made more sense if he went back on the sauce, though...

I liked the short moment between Maria and SMG as well. I do wish they'd given SMG more to do (if she was available), mostly because I'd like to see more of her old vulnerability and less of that clipped acting style she developed in Buffy's later seasons, but the idea of her scenes was fun, and moving, and a nice goodbye. While I can see why ELR wished she'd had more to do, I'm not sure what else you could have done with Maria, especially since ELR has hated everything they've given her since 2002. But at least she didn't phone in the scenes, as some would have.

Agreed. The sad reality is Maria really has no real direct connection to the characters anymore anyway--except Zack but that whole connection is one big mess IMHO and best ignored (how I wish nearly everything abotu Zack could be ignored). SMG did do that clipped acting style that bugs me too, but it sounds like she didn't have time, with her Ringer promo, etc, to do anything more--and the finale week in many ways was rushed as it was, so I liked how it was done.

I think in some ways it was a better decision to not have him go back on the bottle, mostly because people can be just as dangerous and out of control if they don't fall back into drinking.

I didn't get to see the episode where Gillian came back. Maybe that's for the best. If she filmed more I wish it had been shown as a deleted scene.

Honestly I don't think there was much to do with Maria even when ELR returned in 2002. Maria was a Mary Sue, not much of a character. I preferred her in the return, as it was something different. Both times I've felt it was something of a miracle she was asked back and accepted, because she blasted the show quite a few times. She's lucky Chris Goutman wasn't producer! But again she did a good job in the scenes and she was very good in the 40th anniversary episode. I think I like her more when we don't see her much.

I realize what a very unhealthy relationship Krystal and Babe had but I wish they'd done a scene with them (did they?). Krystal lost any purpose on the show long ago and probably just stayed because Bobbie Eakes is so wonderful, but I wish they'd done that.

Very well written and some beautiful performances

I agree. I really think Alexa did a great job in the supporting role she was given. It always shocks me how underrated she is as an actress. She's so strong and she gives a very warm hearty presence always. You always see her heart even in the small throw away scenes. She really gives you something to hold onto. She is a raw, organic talent and she never comes across to me as contrived or forced. She reminds me a lot of Tamara Braun in that way. Very sincere actress/portrayal.

It was nice to see her again so I can forget the little I saw of that Torchwood thing where she just cried all the time while Mekhi Pfeiffer yelled in her ear.

Torchwood seems to write women horribly. They are either token sex kittens or they are dolls who are in constant need for a man to save them.Meki Phiefer is an uber male because he can get women to sleep with him, go out in the field and make young women cry. Esther is basically just used as a tool for him to manipulate. It doesn't even matter to him how much she adores him.

I liked the short moment between Maria and SMG as well. I do wish they'd given SMG more to do (if she was available), mostly because I'd like to see more of her old vulnerability and less of that clipped acting style she developed in Buffy's later seasons

Sarah is an actress who's style I have so much respect for. I haven't seen Ringer, yet but I love all of her choices. Buffy in later seasons was completely destroyed emotionally so it makes complete sense that she wouldn't be able to feel much of anything at all because everything that mattered to her as an individual person was forcefully taken away from her. All the life was sucked out of her and for Buffy to survive she had to be this cold person who didn't think or care about anyone in the fight to save the world. I think here Sarah just played comedy. There wasn't much room for her to work the scenes in general. The character herself had very little depth.

For the most part the ghost returns (OK, well, her and Leo's--Gillian's doesn't even count as that was messed up), were better handled for me than the convulated Orpheus returns.

I agree actually. I loved Leo, Gillian and Babe's return more then I did Dixie and Zach's even to an extent Stuart's return was so ridiculously haphazardly fast that I didn't get to really feel much of it. I feel all of the ghost returns had more heart to them then the real returns that were featured for weeks on top of weeks. The one thing I hated about it all was that we never got an answer as to who the second patient is. She has blonde hair, is a woman and her name starts with the letter B -- that could have only been Babe. It just smacks of poor writing that they are trying to say it wasn't her.

Honestly I don't think there was much to do with Maria even when ELR returned in 2002. Maria was a Mary Sue, not much of a character. I preferred her in the return, as it was something different. Both times I've felt it was something of a miracle she was asked back and accepted, because she blasted the show quite a few times.

I agree. I don't even know what went wrong with Maria's return. I still don't get it. I loved Maria and I loved when she got her memory back but it's like the show had nothing to do with her other then with that horrible storyline with Aiden.

I realize what a very unhealthy relationship Krystal and Babe had but I wish they'd done a scene with them (did they?). Krystal lost any purpose on the show long ago and probably just stayed because Bobbie Eakes is so wonderful, but I wish they'd done that.

I agree but it would have been impossible without Babe being alive which the show obviously didn't want to do for some reason. Babe is what made Krystal relevant. Her relationship with Marissa pales in comparison and she hasn't worked as a character since Babe died.

I agree. I really think Alexa did a great job in the supporting role she was given. It always shocks me how underrated she is as an actress. She's so strong and she gives a very warm hearty presence always. You always see her heart even in the small throw away scenes. She really gives you something to hold onto. She is a raw, organic talent and she never comes across to me as contrived or forced. She reminds me a lot of Tamara Braun in that way. Very sincere actress/portrayal.

Torchwood seems to write women horribly. They are either token sex kittens or they are dolls who are in constant need for a man to save them.Meki Phiefer is an uber male because he can get women to sleep with him, go out in the field and make young women cry. Esther is basically just used as a tool for him to manipulate. It doesn't even matter to him how much she adores him.

Some of that was triue this year, but I think Gwen is one of the stronger female characters in all of sci fi, Tosh from the earlier seasons doesn't fit that description either. I'm gonna go out on a perhaps unfair limb and say you only watched this year, and primarily for Alexa.

I saw a bit or Torchwood in the beginning when it first started and Gwen was basically just as hopeless as Esther was at the start of the series. She didn't know what she was doing, she did poorly in the field and she was the constant victim used to push Jack into action. Even this past season Gwen was the victim with her family being kidnapped, her father being held hostage and her baby being stolen from her. It was still the woman not being strong enough to go after the bad guys by herself. It's always the women being watered down for the super hero strong men like Rex and Jack saving the day in some way or form. While the women are just constantly getting in the way of that or they just can't handle living in a man's world. The women are either supporting players or meat suits used to gratify the men or they are used as catastrophic losses for the male protagonists to spur action. Gwen herself was often times pushed aside for Rex and the other two female "leads" Esther and Vera both died gratuitous deaths to catapult the male leads into action. Yeah safe to say I am just not a fan of Torchwood's view of women. They are useful for three things to have sex with men, as weapons to hurt the men they are involved with or to support the men who save the day. I won't even try to go into details about Lauren Ambrose's character "Jilly".

Edited September 25, 201114 yr by Skin

Finale or not anyone else think its WAY too soon for Tad and Dixie to be engaged? I think its enough that they are reunite as a couple but they shouldnt be jumping into another marriage. Have they even gone on a date?

I saw a bit or Torchwood in the beginning when it first started and Gwen was basically just as hopeless as Esther was at the start of the series. She didn't know what she was doing, she did poorly in the field and she was the constant victim used to push Jack into action. Even this past season Gwen was the victim with her family being kidnapped, her father being held hostage and her baby being stolen from her.

Rolls eyes--that was the whole point--and Tosh was perhaps the most competent member of the team at the start. Gwen was new to all of this--she was in over her head, the audience was meant to relate to her. That all changed by ep 2.

As to her family being used that way in the series, that's because again Gwen is the only characer long time veiwers know about her family, and so the stakes arer higher. The other characters were new (though we did find out about Rex's troubled family) or like Jack essentially family-less. Your arguments are assinine

Finale or not anyone else think its WAY too soon for Tad and Dixie to be engaged? I think its enough that they are reunite as a couple but they shouldnt be jumping into another marriage. Have they even gone on a date?

Yes, the chicken suit debacle

As to her family being used that way in the series, that's because again Gwen is the only characer long time veiwers know about her family, and so the stakes arer higher. The other characters were new (though we did find out about Rex's troubled family) or like Jack essentially family-less. Your arguments are assinine

It's asinine.

Bottom line from what I have seen from Torchwood all of the female characters are made to be either subordinate, damsels, insignificant/inept or in some form weaker to the men in the series. They are used as tools for plot device to complicate the male's storyline and used for little else. While the big growly men get to save the day and the women are blubbering all over the place and getting knocked out so the big men on campus can save them. Ha-rah. Esther, Vera, Gwen, Jilly, Suzie, etc. all aim to further perpetuate that same male chauvinistic intent that men are superior to women or are more capable at handling things then women are. The body count alone all but tells the story. Two of the more important female characters in the Miracle Day series died in gratuitous, violent manners no less while all of the men live.

Edited September 27, 201114 yr by Skin

Ha, thanks for correcting my typo--you'd be here all day if you corrected them all.

Wew'll have to largely agree to disagree, I think it has much more even handed writing for women than most sci fi series...