It Seems Many Give FV & RC a Free Pass for OLTL's Decline

[JaneAusten]

You know what just like the author who says you can't write a book or the musician who says you try writing a song, people have protested soaps, tel shows, movies etc they don't support by turning the channel, not buying the book, the CD whatever it may be. Those are the millions of people who have fled over the years who got tired and just didnt care enough or lost the energy to complain because no one was listening. I think a lot of people come online to vent and look for some level of comraderie but these are people who are still invested . Its when traffic dies down and no one comments or discusses that you need to worry. Its not unique to soaps or even TV shows, goto blogs or message boards for anything, heck I am a Packer fan and the things fans complain about about the mgmt of the team to the laziness of the players and coaches etc just amazes me but you know what these people are still watching the team otherwise they wouldnt come online to *itch.

[EricMontreal22]

I do think some of the people who have complained HAVE said what they'd rather see--ie in the case of OLTL less new characters constantly focused on, more follow through on certain stories, less of characters randomly going psycho to excuse an exit...

Jane is the voice of reason here I think--people who complain are (mostly) still invested, and that says something. I think very few of us watch just to have something to complain about, although I admit there always does seem to be a few who do just that. There's a lot I still like about OLTL and I try to mention that as well. When people are so put off that they just say "i'm giving up on this crap", or so apathetic that they forget to even watch, that's the real concern.

I get why it's hard if you're loving something at the moment, to read negative views on it--trust me, I'm a huge AMC fan so I get it. I like to think I always try to stay critical, even when I am largely enjoying a show, but I also understand that people don't all feel the same, and that to say that doesn't mean you're some sort of anti fan or a bad soap viewer...

[Days22]

This.

And Oltl and ron does not have good storytelling. I tried to watch the 2 Todds story I really did and even that was crap. In my opinion anyway.

Oltl's biggest problems under Ron are always too many new characters, pretty bad pacing, and theres never ever a decent pay off.

[EricMontreal22]

The pacing is my big issue. Good or great set ups (for the most part) and then instead of the story progressing, you just have repitition. I mean look at a small story like Destiny's pregnancy--we find out she's worried she could be pregnant, then spend what seemed like ages of random scenes of her looking at the pregnancy test she bought but not using it. And then the revelation. In comparison (and this wasn't an absolutely brilliant story by any means, AND I'm sure I'll get accused of playing favorites, but...) on AMC in the Janerica story, particularly when Broderick took over, she was locked up for what seemed like ages as well. But they used that time to develop her character, show progression that THEN led to the revelation. Carlivati doesn't seem able (recently) to be able to do that. It's telling stories from A jumping to C, not A, B, C.

[Saving ATWT]

I'm somewhat new to OLTL butgive FV and RC for heading upthe only soap to GAIN over 400,000 for the year. This was a bad year for soaps, even Y&R is bleeding; however, OLTL has been cancelled yet is still growing on a show string budget. I don't know if it was the addition of JP to the writing team or the addition of PGP actors but OLTL reminds me a lot of old ATWT these days.

Personally, I hate most efforts at camp on soaps (example:David Vickers and Dorian); however, a lot of people enjoy it and RC does this sort of thing well. I feel like he has turned Llanview into an entertaining panorama of colorful personalities, melodrama and fun.

FV seems like the only EP who can still maintain a huge cast yet keep costs low. I'd love to know the budget for OLTL--Days runs 100,000 per episode and doesn't nearly pack as much bang for the buck. Also, he was smart to tap the PGP all stars and I know a number of former ATWT fans who have made the switch due to the additions of Terri Conn, Austin Peck and Kim Zimmer.

Either OLTL is gaining 400,000 viewers for the year because, in most markets, it is the only soap in the time slot or TPTB are doing something right. I think the gains are a combo of both factors. I do love the fact that OLTL has gained a real cult following. My hope is that the writers maintain the current John Water's like over the top vibe after the online switch.

[Saving ATWT]

I think the numerous shots and repitition may relate to budget. It felt as if the director shot one long scene and then just chopped it up for use as filler. I suppose they could have had Destiny speak more during these scenes but they were working with a limited number of actors. I'm pretty sure stuff like this is what keeps OLTL under budget. I felt the same way during a lot of the Cutter/Aubrey/Joe story.

RC is one of the better soap writer's out there today but does cut his share of corners. I do wonder how much control he actually has, though, when it comes to these things.

[KMan101]

I think the show is actually in an interesting and decent spot right now. I don't agree with everything, or like everything, but it's not bad soap. My mom says out of all three, it's her favorite right now and the most interesting.

I became invested in OLTL again after Carlivati took over writing. I enjoyed a lot of his early work, Dorian gloriously taking over BE, Nash's death through the skylight. I do like how he made an effort to bring back characters (David, Alex, Tina, Cord, Kevin, Kelly, Joey, Echo) but he just didn't write them well at all. Marty was also mishandled BADLY. Really bad. Tina was isolated for months, given a few scenes with Viki hating on her, was rejected by Cord and then left town. Zzzzz. Seriously? And poor Kelly (Gina Tognoni). I didn't even recognize her! And Joey was wasted on the Cutter/Aubrey crap.

And not to mention the very well liked returns of Rachel, Hank, RJ and Tea, with only Tea still left. Very badly handled. AGAIN. And let's not even mention he didn't want to write for Marcie or Michael anymore, and dropped many IMPORTANT recurring characters such as Renee, Nigel, Roxy, Carlotta. Also the mishandling of Kyle and Fish, two popular characters. And the destruction of Schulyer, another popular addition, as well as Jared and Charlie.

But he can give years of work to three brothers named Ford.

I don't really know who to blame. I tend to think Frons interfered a lot, however, Carlivati has made a TON of mistakes. He needed a co-HW to balance him out, IMO. He was very schizophrenic of a writer but I also think, interference had a lot to do with it.

[JaneAusten]

I don't think there is any doubt Frons and his crack team of marketers interfere but I think someone else mentioned it seems like wheneve its something people love it must be RC and FV bucking Frons and when its something they hate Frons interfered. Lets just say all HW's and EP's even great ones have had their share of successes and failures barring network interference along with it. I don't think it was ABC who forced Gloria Monty to bring the disastrous Eckert family onto canvas but they sure as heck were the ones who insisted they go. Sure the times are different and there is more micromanaging going on than ever, I am just not ready to give RC a free pass for all the bad when even some of the great writers in the past have had stinker stories.

[Max]

Jane, thank you so much for this comment. It is, in a nutshell, my major complaint and the reason why I created this thread.

[MontyB]

Yes, he's made some bad errors, but I believe most of it had to do with interference and budget.

[DeeeDee]

Given the competition that's not saying much.

[Saving ATWT]

We so often seem to agree on stuff You, by far, are my favorite poster.

Having no money will limit story. ABC has starved OLTL for quite a long time. FV and RC have done a far better job than Goutman did over at ATWT or EW on GL. For that matter, they do more with less than MAB and her big budget.

I would see how much OLTL spends per show. It has to be more than Days 100,000 or whatever they spent (90,000?) on ATWT.

[TeamEric]

RC's best work is building a story to a major climax.

But after that climax, RC never fails to leave fans disappointed on the lack of emotional fall out. He's all about glossing over and rushing to the next big plot point, and he forgets to play the emotional beats out.

To be really fair to RC, when I stop and really think out what was the LAST OLTL story that was really well told from start to finish, I had to go all the way back to Gottlieb/Malone's Todd/Marty saga from 1993-94. Sadly, Malone without Gottlieb was pure dreck. Much like Guza without Riche's tight reins was dreck, too.

[TeamEric]

+10

The GH boards are ghost towns compared to the traffic they used to inspire.

[MontyB]

Thanks!! That's nice to say.

I'm curious as to what the shows budget is also. I think FV has done a great job keeping the format intact. He certainly learned from EW and CG's mistakes.