It Seems Many Give FV & RC a Free Pass for OLTL's Decline

[Max]

I've noticed a tendency--not just at SON, but at other message boards as well--to give FV & RC credit for things that are going right for OLTL while assigning the blame for OLTL's problems to Frons. And even though I believe that OLTL is the best soap currently on the air, FV & RC (and not just Frons alone) deserve blame for the many mistakes that have led OLTL to the point of cancellation.

Under the tenure of these two gentlemen, OLTL became the Ford brothers show. This was a terrible mistake to make (akin to centering SFT around the McCleary brothers; but, at least the individuals who portrayed those characters could act), because it took the focus of the show off the core Buchanan and Manning families (just like the focus of SFT should have been on Jo, Stu, Stephanie, Travis, and Liza). Furthermore, FV & RC engaged in pushing campy or sci-fi storylines (like 1968 and Jessica seemingly getting a new alternate personality every month) and were responsible (in FV's case) for hiring terrible actors (like the portrayers of Destiny and the aforementioned Ford brothers). Even the most die-hard fan of OLTL has to concede that these actions helped to destroy the show.

I think part of the reason why these two men get such a free pass by many (though certainly not by all; for instance, Carl has been very critical of both men) is because Frons is (rightly) the subject of intense hatred among ABC fans; because of this, it is natural for them to give him the blame when things go wrong. Nevertheless, the recent EPs and HWs of AMC and GH still are strongly criticized by many for the damage they caused their shows. I think the main reason why FV and RC don't get anywhere near this same level of criticism is because OLTL is in the best shape of the ABC soaps (and has had a pretty good year so far this year). Yet, this is no excuse for (what appears to me) many people letting FV and RC off the hook for the damage they caused OLTL while assigning all such blame to Frons. I really do believe that these two men greatly contributed to this soap's cancellation.

[JaneAusten]

FV deserves credit only for keeping the show on budget. Other than that they have both pushed some of the most disgusting women hating pieces of crap storylines on any soap. Its interstig to see Y&R heavily criticized for their recent portrayal of women under sheffer same with Higley but Carvalati gets a free pass.

[Eric83]

Yawn.

[hsfolk]

FV & RC can't be blamed for OLTL's cancellation. They could be the #1 ranked soap and they still would've been cancelled because Frons wants to quit soaps

[OLTL_fan]

LOL I don't see the point of rehashing what we talked about in the cancellation thread on what killed AMC & OLTL. I'm ready to move on.

[Max]

I'm not trying to rehash anything previously discussed. The major point I am trying to make here is that it is extremely unfair for FV & RC to get the credit for things when they go well but to get off the hook (by many) for the many areas on which they screwed up. (And the fact that I am a "disgruntled P&G soap fan" is irrelevant to my analysis, so I hope nobody throws that in my face.)

With all due respect Eric83, I find your above response to be very disrespectful. It seems as if rather than trying to defend RC & FV (and refute what I said) on the merits, you are instead choosing to hurl personal insults.

[Eric83]

I don't need to defend them. RC has ups and downs I have quit watching a couple times during his tenure (most notably during the Eli saga which ate the show) but I don't understand the point of rehashing it. The show was going to be canceled no matter who was writing it so I'm not sure why you're blaming them like the show would have somehow avoided the axe if not for the Ford brothers. I don't agree with everything they've done but another thread to criticize OLTL is just boring and over done.

[Max]

Eric83, I apologize for being rude to you. Since I have not read everything you have written, I honestly did not know how you saw FV & RC in their entirety until just now. (That is why I wish your articulate response above was the way you initially chose to contribue to this thread.)

I definately agree with you that about two years ago, ABC executives decided to leave OLTL for dead. However, this decision may not have been made if it was not for the ratings erosion (caused by bad storyline and casting decisions made not only by Frons, but by FV & RC as well) OLTL experienced. Obviously, FV deserves more blame, since he has been at OLTL much longer.

In general (and this has nothing to do with you, Eric), I just don't understand why these two gentlemen (seem to) get such high praise to begin with (given all their mistakes). This quandry is one of the reasons why I created this new thread. I did not create this thread so I could "piss on" OLTL even more (although, given my history, I don't entirely blame die-hard OLTL fans for questioning my motives).

[DRW50]

If this were 2008, or part of 2009, I would agree, but since then I would say only Daytime Confidential has been rah rah.

[MontyB]

Agreed!

[JaneAusten]

THis site tends to be a mixed bag I think and like Eric people come and go when the writing is good and bad but you still see people like the folks at DC, Logan , Fairman, and Branco when he was still around praising this team. But then these same people still praised Bob Guza up to his firing also.

[Max]

Jane, your points are well-taken. Perhaps it is an exaggeration to say "many," but I can never understand why some have such an overrated view of FC & RV. It is as if the people you mentioned can only see them through rose colored glasses. (I want to emphasize that I don't have a black and white view when it comes to these two men; as I already mentioned, OLTL is this year's best soap, and they deserve credit for that.)

[EricMontreal22]

Max, I really respect your posts and often agree with you, but with all due respect, you'll find a lot of us OLTL fans (though some would claim this wouldn't make me an OLTL fan), duly give RC and FV due for what is wrong with OLTL.

It's common for some soap fans to give credit to those they want--witness the endless talk in the past decade by AMC fans that whenever something good would happen suddenly many would claim Agnes Nixon must be back full times ghost writing.

As others have said, when RC came on the show was a marked improvement. In a way this was because he came on after a disappointing (and schizophrenic in tone) brief run by Malone and Griffith (who many fans, like myself, first became fans of during their first 90s era), and then that was followed by the Dena Higley era which I found slow, cliche, and often offensive (the kiddie porn plot, the Rape of Todd, etc). The only way was up--but RC did do a lot of good stuff at first IMHO. But as others have said the main people who go on about how OLTL currently is groundbreaking filled with a mix of classic soap elements like social issues and fantasy, etc, is Daytime confidential and Nelson B.

[Max]

Eric, I have always had immense respect for you, and I sincerely apologize if I have offended you in any way. I often rush to assume, and I should know by now not to do that.

Thank you so much for providing a logical explanation for RC's popularity (one which I've never before read). That, above all, is the reason I started this thread in the first place (though I acknowledge that I failed to make that clear in my first post).

[~bl~]

I think Frons gets more of the blame because some people see common problems among AMC, OLTL and GH. If they all have the similar issues, and one person oversees all three shows, many would jump to the conclusion that they are part of the problem. The other reason I think people go off on Frons is because of some of the statements he has made. Some of his comments have been seen as offensive, while FV and RC seldom do interviews that raise the ire of a lot of people.

I agree with what EricM has said too.