24 minutes ago, Vee said:

I don't remember Brenda losing all her money lol. Wild.

 

It was a bad business manager that stole her money.  It wasn't really delved into, but that's why she needed to get a job ASAP and worked for Genie motors and was desperate for any modeling jobs.

25 minutes ago, Vee said:

I do wonder if Guza or anyone else had any idea what they were doing with Jason and Brenda at this early date. I doubt it. I remember watching the airplane scenes with them live in '98 and thinking they were obviously going there next, but I was not particularly wedded to either of their prior couples at that time. It didn't shock me when Guza started exploring it again in 2002. Looking at it now, Steve and Vanessa had great chemistry but I kind of think it would've upended the show in probably an unnecessary way - the other couples were more money in the bank.

I think the show had an idea with Jason/Brenda even then.  I don't believe Guza was back yet for these scenes, but in Brenda's breakdown chaos she actually kissed Jason saying something like you have Sonny's life now you can have his girl.  Then all the plane crash events which did feel like it was leading somewhere.  I definitely think it was an option they were toying with all along.  There are just quite a few nuances played in that time, but you wouldn't do that with the easy popularity of Brenda/Jax and Robin/Jason.  It would have upended the show like you said.  Maybe if you took the Carly/Michael of it all out of it something could have happened.   There was just way too much being thrown at Jason at the time.

I know Guza was practically proclaimed a genius for throwing Brenda/Jason together in 2002 and it really worked.  If you look at the show in general Jason/Brenda have been teased on and off since Steve and Vanessa first started the show though.

15 minutes ago, carolineg said:

There are just quite a few nuances played in that time, but you wouldn't do that with the easy popularity of Brenda/Jax and Robin/Jason.  It would have upended the show like you said.  Maybe if you took the Carly/Michael of it all out of it something could have happened.   There was just way too much being thrown at Jason at the time.

I know Guza was practically proclaimed a genius for throwing Brenda/Jason together in 2002 and it really worked.  If you look at the show in general Jason/Brenda have been teased on and off since Steve and Vanessa first started the show though.

Yes, I remember the flirtation with both brothers in Jason's Quartermaine years. They tested her around heavily.

I do think the time Jason and Brenda could've worked was in '02. It was seen as a stroke of genius, you're right, but I just remember thinking people were crazy to not remember the plane crash scenes years ago lol. Frons and his fetish for Alicia Leigh Willis got in the way, along with the network's inability to give Vanessa what she wanted to continue which I absolutely believe she would have done had she been properly compensated with money or time off.

OTOH, while they did have serious chemistry I now believe it's probably for the best it didn't happen - I think it would've made Brenda a part of the Guza II-era Mob 4 for good (with Sonny and Carly solid at the time) and she's bigger and better than that, she stands apart. I also think it would've sectioned her off to Jason possibly permanently in the 2000s, and that doesn't work either.

Just now, Vee said:

Yes, I remember the flirtation with both brothers in Jason's Quartermaine years. They tested her around heavily.

I do think the time Jason and Brenda could've worked was in '02. It was seen as a stroke of genius, you're right, but I just remember thinking people were crazy to not remember the plane crash scenes years ago lol. Frons and his fetish for Alicia Leigh Willis got in the way, along with the network's inability to give Vanessa what she wanted to continue which I absolutely believe she would have done had she been properly compensated with money or time off.

OTOH, while they did have serious chemistry I now believe it's probably for the best it didn't happen - I think it would've made Brenda a part of the Guza II-era Mob 4 for good (with Sonny and Carly solid at the time) and she's bigger and better than that, she stands apart. I also think it would've sectioned her off to Jason possibly permanently in the 2000s, and that doesn't work either.

I agree the pairing was best left not happening.  I think the hype and the Bickerson's routine might have been hard to sustain long term.   I have a difficult time believing they would do that to Sonny or Robin as well just on principle. 

I agree Jason/Brenda's only chance to work was in 2002.  Following the story Sam inherited with Sonny's baby could have worked if the show framed it more as Sonny/Brenda being the endgame and Jason/Brenda as more of a surprise romance.  I don't believe Guza would ever kill off a Sonny/Brenda baby, so I would have brought Carly back into Jason's romantic orbit as the marriages fell apart and basically just swapped the two couples.  Courtney could have moved to Antarctica for all I care.  I have no idea where Jax would fit into the story.  He thought he was Sam's baby daddy, right?  You could have plopped him in being annoying and tampering with DNA tests through it all I suppose.  

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

They were fire.  I have swear I have posted about how this pairing's ending annoys me to this day a million times.  

Bobbie was always a polarizing character for fans, but it was still degrading to see her dumped for Katherine solely because MBE and SN were loved at DAYS. Katherine was never liked by GH viewers, especially not at this time. 

The talk about love scenes and Felicia/Tom in the current GH thread reminded me of how often the show would try to use "hot" moments to prop up pairings that weren't really that interesting. Miguel/Brenda had a few. Bobbie also had them with Jerry and Roy. I actually liked the Bobbie/Jerry pairing, but they made the relationship all about sex in a way that felt tawdry (like the sex tape at the Nurses' Ball). And Roy just bored me to tears, even when they had him half-dressed with Jackie for a "hot" SOD cover. I wasn't as surprised as I should have been that Bobbie was in a vulnerable position when JFP arrived. All I really wanted at the time was to have a believable development in her relationship with Carly, and I never got it. 

2 hours ago, Vee said:

I don't either. I thought Lucky literally couldn't stop playing it at one point or something? I guess a VR/ARG video game storyline was ahead of its time but very poorly done lol

I remember some kind of hospital shutdown via hacking that Stefan was behind, and then Lucky nearly drowning in quicksand...didn't Nik save him?

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

**ETA-I didn't even mention the back from the dead crazy mom for Brenda-which was also the worst.**

This was the only Brenda story in that period I was interested in, although I remember why you didn't care for it so I'm not really intending to disagree. I just wasn't into Brenda/Jax and his many declarations of love, and I got the feeling they cut the breakdown story short because they sensed it wasn't working.

Edited December 1, 2024Dec 1 by DRW50

11 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I actually liked the Bobbie/Jerry pairing, but they made the relationship all about sex in a way that felt tawdry (like the sex tape at the Nurses' Ball). And Roy just bored me to tears, even when they had him half-dressed with Jackie for a "hot" SOD cover. I wasn't as surprised as I should have been that Bobbie was in a vulnerable position when JFP arrived.

I wasn't surprised either in 2001. Jackie's position had been on the wane for some time. The Roy/Bobbie story was deeply unpopular. I felt for both parties, because I actually think A Martinez worked well on the show and especially with both Luke and Laura (who, as we know, rumors persist that they almost tested him with) in terms of basic relationships, before JFP tried to center the show around him and Jensen Buchanan. Roy/Bobbie was just one of those forced pairings Riche tried to put over in '99 that led to her blow-up with Guza and both of them ultimately being x'ed out.

Quote

I got the feeling they cut the breakdown story short because they sensed it wasn't working.

They did. Caroline would know better than me (and may have answered by the time I reply here) but IIRC VM quickly realized she was out of her depth and asked them to end it. It was not a secret.

Katherine was always unpopular, but as I've said before I don't think it was MBE's fault. I always felt she played that role to the absolute hilt and was fun to watch. Like SN, she was unrecognizable as her DAYS character (and I knew Stefan and Katherine before I knew Patch and Kayla) and made a great villainess. It was expecting us to root for Katherine as a long-term heroine that never worked. I'd welcome undead Katherine back today for a brief stint, though I'd probably be the only one - at least she had real teeth and claws.

I actually liked the saga of Brenda's mom (a big question mark for me for years up to that point) but it was too rushed.

Re: Bobbie/Carly, I was rewatching some of their late '98 stuff and I actually think it's very believable. They're much closer and warmer after what they've been through that year, but Carly still turns on her nastily when challenged re: Robin and this time Bobbie just shrugs it off and stays above the fray, serene. That works for me and is evolution, however imperfect. Check out 2:55 for a fateful line that Sarah delivers hilariously.

 

Edited December 1, 2024Dec 1 by Vee

9 minutes ago, Vee said:

Katherine was always unpopular, but as I've said before I don't think it was MBE's fault. I always felt she played that role to the absolute hilt and was fun to watch. Like SN, she was unrecognizable as her DAYS character (and I knew Stefan and Katherine before I knew Patch and Kayla) and made a great villainess. It was expecting us to root for Katherine as a long-term heroine that never worked. I'd welcome undead Katherine back today for a brief stint, though I'd probably be the only one - at least she had real teeth and claws.

I actually liked the saga of Brenda's mom (a big question mark for me for years up to that point) but it was too rushed.

Re: Bobbie/Carly, I was rewatching some of their late '98 stuff and I actually think it's very believable. They're much closer and warmer after what they've been through that year, but Carly still turns on her nastily when challenged re: Robin and this time Bobbie just shrugs it off and stays above the fray, serene. That works for me and is evolution, however imperfect. Check out 2:55 for a fateful line that Sarah delivers hilariously.

I do think MBE is a good actress, which is probably how she managed to make Kayla, not an overly well-written character, connect with viewers. There's a certain mix of warmth and cynicism in her work that worked for Katherine, even if I don't know if Katherine ever really fit on the canvas (of all her stories having her force her way into the Q family may have been the best idea, but the family has so much going on at the time she feels surplus). 

I'd have to rewatch but at the time I was really missing some key conversations between Bobbie and Carly to help me to the next step of their relationship; I felt like the show mostly had Carly there to move the plot along for Jason, Jason/Robin, what have you, then tried to throw her into the pairing with AJ. 

Edited December 1, 2024Dec 1 by DRW50

Just now, DRW50 said:

There's a certain mix of warmth and cynicism in her work that worked for Katherine, even if I don't know if Katherine ever really fit on the canvas (of all her stories having her force her way into the Q family may have been the best idea, but the family has so much going on at the time she feels surplus). 

She definitely didn't always fit. But she always was alive onscreen and entertaining as a villain, and that was enough for a lot of stuff for me back then.

My favorite moment of Katherine that I recently revisited is when (IIRC) the Qs learn Brenda is dead. They were mid-argument about something or other and having some party with a cake set up, and as the family processes it and grieves Katherine simply saunters over to the cake and coolly snuffs out the candle, and you can't tell whether she actually has an emotional response or not. That's the button of the whole scene, and that's the character to me.

I think if not for Billy Warlock not being an A-lead in the show's eyes and their constant fascination with Sonny and Jason even then, A.J. and Carly would've gone the distance. They still could today (though I would, in my quixotic dreams, still try to get back both Sarah and Sean Kanan).

6 minutes ago, Vee said:

I think if not for Billy Warlock not being an A-lead in the show's eyes and their constant fascination with Sonny and Jason even then, A.J. and Carly would've gone the distance. They still could today (though I would, in my quixotic dreams, still try to get back both Sarah and Sean Kanan).

I didn't ever see the chemistry between Billy and Sarah, but what annoyed me the most was characters saying over and over they were just like Alan and Monica. That's not a way to get me invested in a pairing, and it always felt desperate and lazy to me. I do think they should have tried to make a firmer commitment - at the time they just kept stalling out because some of them likely wanted to do Jason/Carly but it was clear Steve or whoever else weren't going to go there.

Just now, DRW50 said:

I didn't ever see the chemistry between Billy and Sarah, but what annoyed me the most was characters saying over and over they were just like Alan and Monica.

I do see the vision there, but the writing had to support it and it often didn't back then. It could now - 30 years later, lol. It certainly worked for Sean and Laura Wright in 2012-2013, but Carlivati couldn't wait to get back to Roger Howarth.

9 hours ago, Vee said:

Nice to see Bobbie talk about her past marriages to Brock and Jake Meyer.

Yeah, I remember this episode and at the time I knew about Jake but didn't know about Brock so this episode was the first time I'd heard about that marriage, even though it was a brief mention and I didn't find out the details until later.

7 hours ago, DRW50 said:

The talk about love scenes and Felicia/Tom in the current GH thread reminded me of how often the show would try to use "hot" moments to prop up pairings that weren't really that interesting. Miguel/Brenda had a few. Bobbie also had them with Jerry and Roy. I actually liked the Bobbie/Jerry pairing, but they made the relationship all about sex in a way that felt tawdry (like the sex tape at the Nurses' Ball). And Roy just bored me to tears, even when they had him half-dressed with Jackie for a "hot" SOD cover. I wasn't as surprised as I should have been that Bobbie was in a vulnerable position when JFP arrived. All I really wanted at the time was to have a believable development in her relationship with Carly, and I never got it. 

I remember some kind of hospital shutdown via hacking that Stefan was behind, and then Lucky nearly drowning in quicksand...didn't Nik save him?

This was the only Brenda story in that period I was interested in, although I remember why you didn't care for it so I'm not really intending to disagree. I just wasn't into Brenda/Jax and his many declarations of love, and I got the feeling they cut the breakdown story short because they sensed it wasn't working.

Miguel and Brenda had some explicit sex scenes.  I recall one in the Kelly's shower.  It didn't help the cause lol.

I always wondered if Jerry/Bobbie were that sexual because they were trying to make Bobbie seem younger and hotter to appeal to Jerry.  I am assuming Jerry was supposed to be younger than Bobbie?  Given all the talk about Jerry, the dashing, womanizing cad I can understand why they went in that direction.  They also spent a lot of time with Jax/Brenda so I see it as an attempt to make Bobbie/Jerry appear closer to being their contemporaries.  That being said, I liked the pairing.  It was charming enough.

The Lucky/hospital shut down plot rings a bell to me now that you mention it. 

I can understand liking the Brenda dead mom plot because there were literally no obstacles for Jax/Brenda at the time or a believable way to write Brenda off.  It should have been started earlier.  That's what I was trying to convey in my previous posts.  Brenda/Jax circle around each other for months playing a will they or won't they game and then all of a sudden everything happens in the last 2 or 3 months Vanessa is there still.

6 hours ago, Vee said:

They did. Caroline would know better than me (and may have answered by the time I reply here) but IIRC VM quickly realized she was out of her depth and asked them to end it. It was not a secret.

 

You are correct. 

@DRW50The breakdown story was to pitched her and Vanessa loved it so much she stayed that extra year.  Vanessa then realized it was too difficult for her to play and didn't like the story.  To be fair, it's very clear she was out of her league in those breakdown scenes.  I also think Vanessa was smart enough to know it wasn't popular.  That's why I think they tack on the stuff about her losing her money and bring Robin/Julia back.  The resolution is a little weak as Brenda basically just gets better with the help of her family and friends and not doctors, but we got those two characters back instead. 

6 hours ago, Vee said:

My favorite moment of Katherine that I recently revisited is when (IIRC) the Qs learn Brenda is dead. They were mid-argument about something or other and having some party with a cake set up, and as the family processes it and grieves Katherine simply saunters over to the cake and coolly snuffs out the candle, and you can't tell whether she actually has an emotional response or not. That's the button of the whole scene, and that's the character to me.

 

I know what scene you are talking about.  I think it's actually Katherine's party and Katherine's birthday.  I have no idea why it was at the Q's house anymore.  I always got the sense she was a little sad, but more mad her birthday was ruined lol.

I'll have to re-watch.  I know I have Brenda's death pretty easily accesible.

10 hours ago, carolineg said:

They were fire.  I have swear I have posted about how this pairing's ending annoys me to this day a million times.  

Yeah, it's a damn shame it ended. And how it wasn't a possible re-visit when Nichols was approached for the 50th. That could have been something to lure him in.

18 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

Yeah, it's a damn shame it ended. And how it wasn't a possible re-visit when Nichols was approached for the 50th. That could have been something to lure him in.

I think the ship had long sailed on Bobbie/Stefan by then.  It was hardly ever even referenced once they broke up and even if Ron used Bobbie more I doubt they'd invest in a new romance for her.

It's a shame they couldn't make something work with Nichols for the 50th though.  The Cassadine story was pretty ridiculous at the time to be fair.  Do you remember if they wanted Stefan to take Stavros's place in the story or just be part of the action?

Also, I can never remember when SN is on Days or when he gets fired.  I am going to assume he wasn't on Days at the time?

Just now, carolineg said:

It's a shame they couldn't make something work with Nichols for the 50th though.  The Cassadine story was pretty ridiculous at the time to be fair.  Do you remember if they wanted Stefan to take Stavros's place in the story or just be part of the action?

I wouldn't be surprised if they swapped Stavros/Stefan for the Lulu storyline. Either way, it was a creepy storyline.

1 minute ago, carolineg said:

Also, I can never remember when SN is on Days or when he gets fired.  I am going to assume he wasn't on Days at the time?

He wasn't. He had just left Y&R as Tucker McCall. He didn't return to DAYS until 2015.

9 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they swapped Stavros/Stefan for the Lulu storyline. Either way, it was a creepy storyline.

He wasn't. He had just left Y&R as Tucker McCall. He didn't return to DAYS until 2015.

I would like to think SN read the story outline and just said no, but he works on Days so I doubt he cares much about story.  There were certain parts of the Lulu story that worked for me that were mostly character moments.  I can never be on board with a story that ended saddling us with Charlotte though.