May 30 - June 3, 2011

[Bella20]

According to the numbers that Toups posted, since September 20, 2010 through June 5, 2011, OLTL's household rating is 1.9, GH's is 2.1. During the same time period, OLTL women 18-49 rating is 1.1, GH's is 1.4. I'm not one to make too much out of GH's small lead in these two categories, but it makes more sense to look at what the two shows have done over a longer period of time than just a few weeks, especially when you want to gloat. ABC canceled the right soaps, and GH will be right behind them in a few months.

[Carolyn1980]

I keep seeing you argue this point, and yet....it's not the way networks usually do business. It's always, "What have you done for me lately?" when it comes to canceling shows. If a primetime show is doing very well in the fall, and tanks in the spring, it gets canceled over a show that tanked in the fall, but has been beating the other show pretty regularly in the spring. They NEVER cancel shows based on a year-long ratings sample. It just doesn't work that way. OLTL was canceled just because it had always been picked to be the first to go from the time AMC was moved to L.A. It's sudden ratings upsurge wasn't going to change that, unless ABC had an intention of staying in the soap business. And they don't. GH is gone next year, as well.

[marceline]

ABC canceled all three soaps. This business that OLTL should somehow have been spared is just the latest manifestation of the tiresome "red-headed stepchild" persecution complex and just like I predicted the hatefest has moved from AMC to GH. When people look back on the death of the genre, OLTL will be the only show that gets noted for the fact that it's fans, supporters and its own actors, spent the waning days attacking other soaps, unrelated shows (Oprah) and even the show's creator instead of celebrating it and saying a fitting goodbye.

[Carolyn1980]

Frankly, marceline, when people look back on the "death of the genre," they're not gonna give a [!@#$%^&*] about that.

[marceline]

Sure they will. Of course not many people are going to care about the death of the genre but the ten or fifteen who do will definitely note the "Lord of the Flies" vibe where the OLTLers acted like Jack. Of course most will just keep blaming women in the workplace and OJ so the people who did this will get a big cosmic pass. It's just a shame that the Convergence Culture Consortium stopped covering soaps. They actually kept it all in perspective.

[Carolyn1980]

Let's face it, marceline, those "ten or fifteen" people you think will "note the....vibe" are pretty much going to do so in their own echo chamber. The rest of the world couldn't give two $hits.

And I know you disagree, but I think OLTL's crushing of AMC in the key demo is what killed ABC daytime more quickly than it would have gone otherwise. If everything had gone according to plan, AMC would've thrived in L.A. (garnering recent OLTL-like ratings in the key demo), and OLTL would've been the lone cancellation. AMC and GH would've then lived another few years, at least. But things didn't go according to plan. OLTL bested AMC, forcing ABC to cancel both...and now GH won't last beyond next year, either, because it's barely out-rating the canceled OLTL. Heck, Frons is even acknowledging as much by moving OLTL's headwriter (and probably EP) to GH in a last-ditch effort to keep the show going....but it won't work.

[Bella20]

"Lately" doesn't mean a week or two. Networks aren't going to make a decision because a show has a good four weeks. But, even in the comparison that you are using, what OLTL is doing in comparison to GH during the last month or so, the fact still remains that there hasn't been this wide gap, and there really hasn't been one as big as the lead that GH has on OLTL during the past nine months. For goodness sake, here are the key demo numbers for this week: GH 1.0/6 (same/-.2) <---- ties low (2nd straight week),OLTL 0.9/6 (-.1/-.2). And it's pretty much like that every week, one of the other of them will have a 1.1 or 1.0 and the other will be .9, so please tell me what's there to brag about? What's the difference between a 1.1 and a .9? They are statistically the same, so if a show that's getting a 1.1 is in trouble, then so is the one that's getting a .9. For goodness sake, since GH did better in the demo this week than OLTL did, the bragging doesn't even make any sense.

ABC made the decision to cancel OLTL last year, that's obvious. It's also obvious that sometime this year the network also decided to find a possible replacement for GH. Neither shows ratings are enough to lure in big advertisers.

OLTL hasn't had a ratings upsurge, over the course of the year it's up a tenth of a point, and while that might sound nice, it's still incredibly low. OLTL was slated to be canceled for that reason, it's ratings are too low, so advertisers are not going to pay to have their ads run during the time that it is on.

AMC is getting OLTL type numbers in the key demo.

[marceline]

No what I think is that they all would've gotten canceled because ABC WANTS OUT OF THE SOAP BUSINESS. The order might've changed but the end result would've been the same. ABC doesn't want to make this product any more. And to watch people keep trying to make this about this one lone show being too good, too plucky, too brazen, too victimized, etc... has become surreal. Talk about a [!@#$%^&*] echo chamber. This has turned into CSI:OLTL with people looking for that special bit of DNA to prove this show was murdered because it was just that good.

OLTL wasn't going to get saved and it didn't get canceled because its the poor wittle red-headed stepchild. It got canceled because ABC WANTS OUT OF THE SOAP BUSINESS. That's not as much fun as the conspiracy theories but really when you hear hoofbeats think horses not unicorns.

[Llantano Incorporated]

Marceline, you are one of my favorite posters, but I really cannot believe that you feel this way. Your comments don't exactly help stop us vicious and bitter OLTL fans, if anything it instigates matters. Frankly I am glad that AMC has stabilized its ratings and hope the fans have an amazing ending to their show. I blame AMC for NOTHING. Everybody was a sitting duck here- everyone. OLTL was always the first to go- and I said this here EVERYDAY. (Granted I was wrong that AMC would outlive OLTL, but that WAS the plan.) And I don't care.

[Llantano Incorporated]

WHO THE HECK IS BRAGGING? You anti OLTL'ers (I don't know what to call you) keep this bull-hit going and accuse US of this idiotic war. Let's just face it. Every post here is agenda driven. Will this ever end? I think this will still be going in February 2012! After both shows are dead. The ratings suck all across the board. Who can brag about shows that are cancelled?

[marceline]

Sorry but what I've seen is a bunch of people who went from blaming AMC for OLTL being canceled to gloating every week OLTL beats GH. I hope OLTL gets a decent ending. If you look at the thread about Strasser leaving you can see that. Whenever I see somebody mentions that the end might be all about the Fords even I shake my head at the thought. You may not blame AMC but you can see that plenty of people do. They blame AMC, GH, Oprah... If OLTL was supposed to be the first to go, at least the show got four extra months but somehow, through some truly twisted logic, instead of being grateful for that, those four months translate into "AMC killed OLTL."

There's no point to the fapping away at the ratings anymore because it's very clear that (say it with me) ABC wants out of the soap business. It was one thing when the cancellations were first announced because we didn't know any better but now its obvious. Bumping Broderick up to HW on AMC, bumping Wolf up to HW on GH, moving RC to GH to run out his contract, the news about Couric, it's like shutting down a factory division by division. And yet every week we've got people claiming, "they canceled the wrong show."

They canceled all the shows.

(You're one of my favorites too BTW.)

[JaneAusten]

I don't see where people are getting ratings are stabilized for any show. When I look at the demos which appears to be the only number that the industry cares about, they are still dropping. What's stablized for some of the shows are the viewing numbers which means the older viewers are coming back to perhaps see their show's last hurrah so to speak. Isn't that the same thing that happened with ATWT also?

As for this endless discussion about which show goes or should go first or why cancellations happened, I honestly have no clue why ABC moved AMC to LA. We all know now from Brian Fron's statements that the development of replacement programming has been going on for at least a year likely longer so this idea that moving AMC to LA was going to improve the show to the point where its ratings would improve(why would a move to LA impact this) to me seems like reaching for some logic that doen't exist. There was no saving this show to the point where it was going to last several more years. But the fact is what was stated was true. ABC wants out of soaps. The only debate is order in which the shows are going. And whats the point in debating this. There are a myriad of reasons none of us will never know and not one I'll bet has to do with OLTL being some sort of red headed stepchild.

[Carolyn1980]

No, OLTL is doing much better than AMC in the key demo. Not enough for ABC to want to stay in the soap business, but that 0.2 in the key demo is enough of a difference even for one primetime show to be canceled over another.

[Llantano Incorporated]

Oh my god that is RIGHT!!! The two year contracts for Carlivati and Valentini- I never thought of that- they will both be helming GH, without a doubt.

Well I know the Fords will be gone by September. A certain hated insider has proven herself correct on 6 dismissals so far- 2-3 months before they were announced. I really don't care that people hate her. She has proven herself in my eyes. That is why I am not concerned about the Fords at all. I am wondering what the endgame for OLTL really is, as things are pretty quiet on that front. I think July/August will be the beginning of OLTL's final stage and things will become more apparent. I cannot believe that AMC stops filming in July. I really cannot believe how fast this is happening.

[Bella20]

Here's one example, and the one that I was responding to.

This meme has been going on every since OLTL was canceled, despite the fact that over the past nine months GH's numbers are better, but the numbers for both (all) of the shows are horrible, and good reason for the cancellations.

As far as OLTL's demo numbers being so much better than AMC's, I don't like using that phrase to describe a difference of two tenths of a point, or raw numbers that are never more than 300,000 viewers apart. Most statisticians, network executives and advertisers wouldn't see a significant difference at all here, because there isn't one.