The Gottlieb opening theme is terrible in terms of visuals relating to the show. I loathed it. I did like the visuals over the closing credits. The music itself is gorgeous. I don't remember anyone liking the change at the time. It was another thing they could use to attack Gottlieb. 

18 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

What are people's thoughts about the opening going from Tour of Llanview to this?  

 

Ah, yes.  The soap opera opening that taught us that a man with a cute butt and a smile will only break your heart in the end.

5 hours ago, chrisml said:

I don't remember anyone liking the change at the time. It was another thing they could use to attack Gottlieb. 

In retrospect, I don't blame Linda Gottlieb for wanting to bring OLTL, and daytime itself, into the 1990's, because the audience simply had become more sophisticated by that point.  To me, however, she always came across in interviews and such as one who never appreciated soap operas as an artform - who, in fact, hated everything about the genre, and the show she was hired to work on in particular. 

I mean, compare Gottlieb to Wendy Riche, whom most of us had never heard of before she took over GH, but who came in and got almost right away how important it was to respect daytime and its' audience; who admitted that her show was not in great shape when she came aboard, but who didn't go out of her way to denigrate it to its' most loyal fans; and who, at the very least, appeared to respect the genre's conventions while still recognizing the need to contemporize.

15 hours ago, Maxim said:

One thing I don't like about this storyline is how fast Sloan seemed to go from terminally ill to recovering and in remission. Maybe he is lying about being in remission, which will resolve this issue for me. But it literally changed in the span of 2-3 episodes. 

Clint Richie's illness in real-life changed the storyline. Originally Sloan was to die and Clint & Viki get back together again. However because Clint Richie was in an accident and on sick leave, the writers had to scramble to keep the story afloat until Richie came back

So they convinced Roy Thinnes to sign a long-term contract, just to keep things going until Richie came back. Which is why he made a miraculous recovery. Irony is that they did wind up killing off Sloan, cutting short Roy Thinnes contract. Despite Richie returning (and a recast Jerry Ver Dorn), Clint & Viki remained apart for almost 20 years!

Edited October 6Oct 6 by TheyStartedOnSoaps

1 hour ago, Khan said:

In retrospect, I don't blame Linda Gottlieb for wanting to bring OLTL, and daytime itself, into the 1990's, because the audience simply had become more sophisticated by that point.  To me, however, she always came across in interviews and such as one who never appreciated soap operas as an artform - who, in fact, hated everything about the genre, and the show she was hired to work on in particular. 

That was the vibe I got from that interview about the music in her OLTL run. Just some thinly veiled contempt.

7 hours ago, TheyStartedOnSoaps said:

Clint Richie's illness in real-life changed the storyline. Originally Sloan was to die and Clint & Viki get back together again. However because Clint Richie was in an accident and on sick leave, the writers had to scramble to keep the story afloat until Richie came back

So they convinced Roy Thinnes to sign a long-term contract, just to keep things going until Richie came back. Which is why he made a miraculous recovery. Irony is that they did wind up killing off Sloan, cutting short Roy Thinnes contract. Despite Richie returning (and a recast Jerry Ver Dorn), Clint & Viki remained apart for almost 20 years!

Well... Whatever the backstage situation was it is still poorly written in that regard and they do so great with the writing overall that all these small things and mistakes make an impression. It's not like the modern day soaps where the writing is so poor, people stop even paying attention to details. But thanks for providing that context.

8 hours ago, Khan said:

Ah, yes.  The soap opera opening that taught us that a man with a cute butt and a smile will only break your heart in the end.

Hahahahaha. Ain't that the truth. A cute butt is such a double-edged sword.

I really don't fault them all that much for the writing with Clint/Viki/Sloan because Clint Ritchie was a nightmare bts the scenes. That's why he had to agree to stop drinking to stay on the show during Gottlieb's tenure. I'm sure the writing just reflected Gottlieb's frustration with him. 

As for Gottleb's contempt for the genre, I can imagine she might have that attitude if "Eterna," and the cowboy storyline were the big stories she was made aware of before taking over the show. I have seen very little of Rauch's tenure of the show, but from what I've read, it seemed to be taken as campy and over the top--the very stuff you'd see in Soapdish for ex. Soap critics I've read were constantly slamming OLTL's storylines, so I always found it odd they were so up in arms about Gottleb's attitude.

12 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I really don't fault them all that much for the writing with Clint/Viki/Sloan because Clint Ritchie was a nightmare bts the scenes. That's why he had to agree to stop drinking to stay on the show during Gottlieb's tenure. I'm sure the writing just reflected Gottlieb's frustration with him. 

As for Gottleb's contempt for the genre, I can imagine she might have that attitude if "Eterna," and the cowboy storyline were the big stories she was made aware of before taking over the show. I have seen very little of Rauch's tenure of the show, but from what I've read, it seemed to be taken as campy and over the top--the very stuff you'd see in Soapdish for ex. Soap critics I've read were constantly slamming OLTL's storylines, so I always found it odd they were so up in arms about Gottleb's attitude.

I think the writing for the triangle had issues beyond Clint's behavior - it was disrespectful to the Viki/Clint relationship and also very cheap to use homophobia (and the whole idea of "good" and "bad" homophobes) the way they did. There were ways to break Clint and Viki up which weren't taken, while still building up Viki and Sloan.

I don't think Gottlieb was wrong if she had a low opinion of the few years of stories proceeding her taking over the show, but that interview where the composer seemed to have such a dismissive opinion of the Megan death story made me wonder if they just did not have much use for the soap format.

It's been a good 30+ years, so I really think Suzanne Ciani was just being lighthearted about it many decades later in that documentary. In the end it was scoring for a soap opera which is a kind of goofy gig to the outside world, but they did it very well and clearly took it seriously at the time. Gottlieb also clearly took the show seriously when she worked on it, based on many period interviews. Was she dismissive of soaps when she started? Absolutely. So was Harding Lemay.

As for Clint Ritchie, he was a complicated guy at best. Erika is very fulsome with praise for him in the oral history even in those same passages where she talks about him being impossible to work with at times. And he did some of his best work in those years. I think if he was totally unmanageable he would not have lasted so long. That's not an excuse for his behavior, which doesn't have one, but the truth BTS in daytime, over decades, is often more complex than just someone being good or bad at their job. Unless you're Arthur Burghardt, who everyone hated.

Edited October 6Oct 6 by Vee

6 minutes ago, Vee said:

It's been a good 30+ years, so I really think Suzanne Ciani was just being lighthearted about it many decades later in that documentary. In the end it was scoring for a soap opera which is a kind of goofy gig to the outside world, but they did it very well and clearly took it seriously at the time. Gottlieb also clearly took the show seriously when she worked on it, based on many period interviews. Was she dismissive of soaps when she started? Absolutely. So was Harding Lemay.

I think that's always the crux with Gottlieb. She did brilliant work, and I don't think she was inherently dismissive of OLTL in the work she put across onscreen. Yet there was clearly something about her which alienated many in the industry, not just touchy actors or journalists, but also Erika Slezak. So the two co-exist. Her work still mostly holds up well and a good portion of what I personally may not care for I can at least say was well-produced. 

She's luckier than Lemay as most of his work is gone so we're left with fan memories, audios, a few episodes, and a dishy tell-all that makes him look petty. 

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I think the writing for the triangle had issues beyond Clint's behavior - it was disrespectful to the Viki/Clint relationship and also very cheap to use homophobia (and the whole idea of "good" and "bad" homophobes) the way they did. There were ways to break Clint and Viki up which weren't taken, while still building up Viki and Sloan.

I don't think Gottlieb was wrong if she had a low opinion of the few years of stories proceeding her taking over the show, but that interview where the composer seemed to have such a dismissive opinion of the Megan death story made me wonder if they just did not have much use for the soap format.

I guess my point is they were purposely being disrespectful out of animosity towards Ritchie (which is why I think he never got over that storyline) . And I don't blame Gottlieb if he's throwing a chair at Slezak and acting a drunken fool which they admit he was doing. I can't imagine having to work with someone that volatile and unpredictable no matter how talented. I see your point about the good v. bad homophobe thing.

 

1 hour ago, Vee said:

As for Clint Ritchie, he was a complicated guy at best. Erika is very fulsome with praise for him in the oral history even in those same passages where she talks about him being impossible to work with at times. And he did some of his best work in those years. I think if he was totally unmanageable he would not have lasted so long. That's not an excuse for his behavior, which doesn't have one, but the truth BTS in daytime, over decades, is often more complex than just someone being good or bad at their job. Unless you're Arthur Burghardt, who everyone hated.

Clint Ritchie was extremely attractive and talented. I don't want to take that away from him. I think the problem is that often bad behaviour was overlooked and sanctioned. I think it's telling that Woods made it clear that Ritchie knew he could go back to drinking once Gottlieb left because he wouldn't face any consequences. 

Up to October 9th, 1992.

  ⭐

"The price of TRUST."

🔷

Llanfair has never been a more toxic and conflict-ridden place. Clint and Viki are constantly at odds over every conceivable topic. Whether it's Joey's friendship with Billy or Leanne's relationship with her son, they find something to disagree on. And we all know the root of all these issues - Clint himself pointed it out. Just two words: Sloan Carpenter. However, Viki is not one to accept being controlled... or pushed around. She made it clear to him - "I am your wife, and you must trust me." But what is the cost of trust? Especially with Sloan Carpenter lurking in the shadows, waiting for any weakness in their relationship. At the end of a very bumpy night... Victoria (once again behind Clint's back) talked with Sloan and this time begged him to leave her alone. He agreed. But after he left... she fell apart. It's not easy living with your choices, Victoria.

🔷

This Suede-Luna storyline has taken a dramatically campy twist, with the "heroine" trapped in a spooky almost Halloween-themed house... the very place where Suede's wife lived and DIED. The whole production feels ridiculous - the blood on the carpet from years ago remains a striking red color... I mean... come on, guys... I expect more from this show. And yes, the atmosphere is starting to resemble the classic Hollywood film Rebecca... which I adore (the movie, not THIS). I understand the effect they're going for, but I'm not impressed. It's especially absurd when the character at the heart of this is Luna - the crazy bird of Llanview. They've put her in the very cliched damsel in distress role, and it just doesn't fit her vibe. AT ALL. 

🔷

Alex and Mortimer continue to be insufferable to me. The circus is now packed with yet another bizarre creature - a sex expert... an elderly woman who is meant to help Mortimer achieve a healthy BONER by looking at Alex, dressed as a cheap whore. This kind of humor is simply not my cup of... whatever it is. It's shallow and irritating. Come on, guys... spare us Mortimer's absurd transformation to Carlo. Why did you even decide to kill Carlo in the first place... when you brought the actor back months later? TOTAL MESS. At one point I thought Alex was going to give him a hand job while the granny expert was in the room. Crazy stuff. I think there is an audience for this kind of spiel, but it's not dear old me.😂

🔷

At the charity dinner party, Asa once again couldn't contain his sadistic tendencies. When Renee asked him how he is doing, he told her that Blair is going to give him a baby... adding - "something you could never give me." I swear, when this man decides to be EVIL... he transforms into a monster. Watching life almost... fade from Renee's eyes... broke my heart. What a jerk! But it was exceptionally well written.Talking about babies... Addie is bizarrely focused on little Duke while Kevin is at Asa's house. Am I sensing what I'm sensing? Is Demerest about to get kidnapped again? This time by an insane woman! This baby doesn't get a break in this show. 

🔷

 The cherry on top... was the scene between Sheila and Nora. To give some background - prior to that, we witnessed Rachel and Nora discuss Rachel's plans - if she is going to stay in Llanview or leave with her to Chicago. Rachel felt that Nora was trying to control her... intent on winning in some sort of power struggle against Hank. When Nora stepped away to take a phone call... Sheila came and sat down with Rachel... attempting to try and help mend the relationship between mother and daughter. However, when Nora returned and saw them together... she completely misinterpreted the situation. We caught our first real glimpse into Nora’s true character and her more vicious side. Misreading everything... she lashed out at Sheila and even issued a threat. The actress truly captivated me. She shifted the nuances and tone multiple times while still coming across as very menacing. An outstanding performance.  

 Overall -  7/10 (The bland Rebecca-inspired thriller plot is lacking... so is Mortimer's sex lessons.)

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ 

Clip of the day

There is a new B in town. And her name is Nora Gannon. 

Edited October 8Oct 8 by Maxim

@Maxim Thanks as always. Never saw just what a mess Nora was early on.

Valerie Pettiford is divine. She deserved a much better career. And better than whatever Y&R is doing with her now. 

The little old lady was Dr. Ruth, a longtime sex therapist who was a pop culture storm in the '80s and '90s. She was a very kind woman, reportedly. Mary Gross once mentioned doing an impression of her on Saturday Night Live, with a long speech about her relationship with her mother - she was mortified to learn Dr. Ruth was in the audience that night, as the real Ruth's mother had died in the Holocaust. She sought Ruth out to apologize, but Ruth had nothing but kind words for her. 

She passed away last year.

Here are a few clips of her near the start and end of her peak of fame.

 

Oh Dr. Ruth LOL - I remember her as a teenager thinking WTH LOL. @Maxim - Are you full on German, or an American living in Germany now?  I'm always so curious.