21 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I remember having to tell my mom that Blair was originally Asian, and she thought I was making it up because why would a show be so stupid as to change a character's ethnicity from Asian to a blonde southern girl.  And I said 'soaps have always not dealt in reality so why would we expect them to maintain the ethnicity of a character.. especially in the early 90s'.

During the 1960s and 1970s, OLTL was very naturalistic and grounded in reality. 

Then the 1980s came along, and science fiction, camp, and insta-ethnicity changes took over. For me, it was painful to see a once-fine soap self destruct so quickly.

Once Gordon Russell left the headwriting team, I knew the results would not be beneficial to Llanview.

I’m not one to rag on Alan Locher just because, but I’m really pissed right now bc he posted on FB that “a copy of Erika’s very first taped episode” was added to her official website “to view,” and all I see is the call sheet and a small snippet of a scene from the script. 

In my view the issue wasn't Russell's departure it was Rauch's arrival particularly when he installed S. Michael Schnessel as head writer. I think Hall and O'Shea were a good team and O'Shea with Schnessel still kept the core of OLTL. Paul wanted to carve out a GH like feel for Landview. I hated Eterna and all the other over the top and fantasy crap he did during his years.

9 minutes ago, VelekaCarruthers said:

In my view the issue wasn't Russell's departure it was Rauch's arrival particularly when he installed S. Michael Schnessel as head writer. I think Hall and O'Shea were a good team and O'Shea with Schnessel still kept the core of OLTL. Paul wanted to carve out a GH like feel for Landview. I hated Eterna and all the other over the top and fantasy crap he did during his years.

I was reluctant to start this show because I had heard how atrocious these storylines were. I hate science fiction on soaps. HATE IT. Just not my thing. I had seen some 1980s scenes that were reeeeeeeeeally over the top and I thought the entire show would be like that... so... you could only imagine... how surprised and shocked I was when I started watching late 1991 (thanks to one of my soap opera friends encouraging me and telling me that this era has nothing to do with the Rauch era). I found myself slowly falling in love with Llanview and all the characters. I don't know if I will ever go back in time and watch the 1986-1990 years... I've been told there is no point by some... or that I should definitely do it by others. I'm enjoying 1992 tremendously. 

 

Edited August 1Aug 1 by Maxim

4 hours ago, Maxim said:

I was reluctant to start this show because I had heard how atrocious these storylines were. I hate science fiction on soaps. HATE IT. Just not my thing. I had seen some 1980s scenes that were reeeeeeeeeally over the top and I thought the entire show would be like that... so... you could only imagine... how surprised and shocked I was when I started watching late 1991 (thanks to one of my soap opera friends encouraging me and telling me that this era has nothing to do with the Rauch era). I found myself slowly falling in love with Llanview and all the characters. I don't know if I will ever go back in time and watch the 1986-1990 years... I've been told there is no point by some... or that I should definitely do it by others. I'm enjoying 1992 tremendously. 

Rauch did a lot of damage to the show, even if it was moribund by the time he arrived. I think there's still a good amount to enjoy in the late '80s, namely due to the female cast. Rauch brought in one knockout after another and would center large parts of the canvas around them. There are also a lot of ridiculous howler moments, ridiculous camp, which I am not a huge fan of on soaps, but they're a guilty pleasure of mine with his era. Here's one of my...erm...favorite examples.

It's not as good as what you are watching, but if you get up to about mid-1994, I'd say most of what you are enjoying will start to go anyway, so that might not be a bad time to loop back.

I didn't see a lot of Rauch's tenure when it first aired. I have gone back and watched some of the material out of order, and it just doesn't work for me. It's very campy (as @DRW50points out) and devoid of any real depth of feeling/emotion. I'm all for camp, but there have to be real moments and I don't get that from Rauch produced material (maybe from AW but I have not seen much if any of his work).

34 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I didn't see a lot of Rauch's tenure when it first aired. I have gone back and watched some of the material out of order, and it just doesn't work for me. It's very campy (as @DRW50points out) and devoid of any real depth of feeling/emotion. I'm all for camp, but there have to be real moments and I don't get that from Rauch produced material (maybe from AW but I have not seen much if any of his work).

There's some, but that's mostly down to certain performers. Andrea Evans often manages to find heart and sincerity in very daffy and selfish stories. I think Clint Ritchie does too, in the Old West story. And Erika does a good job making the stroke story believable. Jessica Tuck may have been the ideal actress for that period as she can play the roughness yet bring the vulnerability. 

Edited August 2Aug 2 by DRW50

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

There's some, but that's mostly down to certain performers. Andrea Evans often manages to find heart and sincerity in very daffy and selfish stories. I think Clint Ritchie does too, in the Old West story. And Erika does a good job making the stroke story believable. Jessica Tuck may have been the ideal actress for that period as she can play the roughness yet bring the vulnerability. 

I don't fault the performers (or at least most of them) because they can only work with what they were given. And I like the OLTL cast I've seen. It's the ridiculous stories and the lack of heart that leave me uninterested in a lot of the scenes/stories I've seen from Rauch's era. It reminds me of how Santa Barbara went from sophisticated drama to a lazy plot-plot driven mess under his watch.

Ritchie was underrated. A shame his personal problems got in the way of him really achieving greatness on that show.

36 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I don't fault the performers (or at least most of them) because they can only work with what they were given. And I like the OLTL cast I've seen. It's the ridiculous stories and the lack of heart that leave me uninterested in a lot of the scenes/stories I've seen from Rauch's era. It reminds me of how Santa Barbara went from sophisticated drama to a lazy plot-plot driven mess under his watch.

Ritchie was underrated. A shame his personal problems got in the way of him really achieving greatness on that show.

I definitely didn't think you were slighting the cast. I do agree about the overall show. I think there was a weird format which some broke through but many just couldn't, especially the parade of ingenues (even though I did have a soft spot for some, like Brenda). 

OLTL should have been a much more layered show. It's a shame that other than a year or two in the early '90s, it never was again after '81 or so.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

OLTL should have been a much more layered show. It's a shame that other than a year or two in the early '90s, it never was again after '81 or so.

I think that's pretty reductive, but it definitely had plenty of ups and downs. Like any soap.

6 minutes ago, Vee said:

I think that's pretty reductive, but it definitely had plenty of ups and downs. Like any soap.

That's not to say there weren't some good patches here and there, or that the other soaps in those years were leaving OLTL in the dust (they weren't). I just think OLTL was created with a very specific purpose, which when moved away from they almost never found again. "Cartini" choosing to use the 40th anniversary for stale camp and a rapemance instead of remembering the roots of what Agnes Nixon, Gordon Russell, Doris Quinlan, etc. had done to make OLTL so unique spoke volumes on what many at the show by then seemed to think its legacy was.

Edited August 2Aug 2 by DRW50

I think OLTL transformed itself several times throughout its history - the Buchanan influx post-Dallas obviously being the first time. A lot of soaps did the same in different or similar ways. But one thing I never thought it fully lost, except for during some of the Rauch years, was the sense of having an eye on the outsiders in life or the other side of the street. That's the purpose I think you're talking about. And I feel that even in lowlight periods there were still some characters, families, etc. who articulated that vision of the show that went all the way back. Even the Buchanans became subsumed into some of that ethos, or at least coexisted with it, both in the early '80s and then again for much of the '90s and 2000s.

Most soaps, if not all, are a synthesis of the good, the bad and the ugly throughout their era. Often a great year has a lot of all of the above coexisting. OLTL was no exception, especially in its last rocky creative upswing in the late 2000s. (We can debate whether there actually was one, but that was how it's been viewed by a lot of people both in the audience and among the cast.) There was plenty of bad to go along with the good in those years, especially after Carlivati got high on his own supply, and I've certainly become hypercritical of how it fell apart in a lot of ways, but there were still good stories or pairings.

But I'm not really here to defend that era so much as I am to say I think it's easy to pick apart, say, '91, '94 or '95 as not being as structurally flawless as the years in between. The reality is no year in the '90s was perfect. Nor were the early '80s, or most likely the '70s. I just don't think we should dismiss outright all but a year or two here or there - I think any year-round soap is much more complex and rich a than that story to story, month to month. Or at least they were 20 years ago. And I don't think OLTL ever fully lost its sense of self. Or when it did, it eventually got it back again, even if the show was worse for wear.

3 hours ago, Vee said:

I think OLTL transformed itself several times throughout its history - the Buchanan influx post-Dallas obviously being the first time. A lot of soaps did the same in different or similar ways. But one thing I never thought it fully lost, except for during some of the Rauch years, was the sense of having an eye on the outsiders in life or the other side of the street. That's the purpose I think you're talking about.

I give Malone credit for trying to bring that aspect back with Angel Square in 1995. I wish the others at the show from then on had not moved away from what he was setting up. 

Which period of OLTL would you say had a creative upswing in the late '00s?

I haven't gone back to rewatch, but if memory serves I'd go about mid 2007 to early 2008.

9 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Rauch did a lot of damage to the show, even if it was moribund by the time he arrived. I think there's still a good amount to enjoy in the late '80s, namely due to the female cast. Rauch brought in one knockout after another and would center large parts of the canvas around them. There are also a lot of ridiculous howler moments, ridiculous camp, which I am not a huge fan of on soaps, but they're a guilty pleasure of mine with his era. Here's one of my...erm...favorite examples.

It's not as good as what you are watching, but if you get up to about mid-1994, I'd say most of what you are enjoying will start to go anyway, so that might not be a bad time to loop back.

Ahahahha, this scene is hilarious. Who is this Maria gal? She looks like my kind of crazy.  😁

As for turning back in time... I really value your opinion... and if I ever feel like the show isn't fun anymore... I'll take your advice and revisit the 80s. But for now... I'm happy and grateful I still have years to enjoy.

For some reason, it feels like things are just getting started...  The first few months I watched - from October 1991 to maybe February 1992... it was a bit TOO fast and chaotic. The reason I stuck around was Blair and... probably Dorian. Their storylines really pulled me in. But everything was moving at a crazy pace, with storylines coming one after another. Then in February-March... they began to focus and slow things down. The Blair-Dorian war was finally giving us fruits, and the show felt more genuine and soap-opera-like than ever. In a good way.

During those first few months I watched... someone was dying every month, with so many changes, it was like half the cast got wiped out. That really messed with the feeling of authenticity. And you really can't take so much death in such a small amount of time before feeling like the entire show is getting too depressing. 

There are still little things that annoy me (even the greatest soaps have them), but nothing too serious. If you ask me... I’d kick out couple more characters right now (July 1992). The show still feels a bit overcrowded at times. Sarah needs to go. We don't need a blond Cassie. Cain... what's the point of him? Discard him or give him a purpose. This ridiculous detective Maggie needs to be out... she can't act if her life depended on it... and so on. But the main core of the show is really solid.  

22 minutes ago, Maxim said:

Ahahahha, this scene is hilarious. Who is this Maria gal? She looks like my kind of crazy.  😁

As for turning back in time... I really value your opinion... and if I ever feel like the show isn't fun anymore... I'll take your advice and revisit the 80s. But for now... I'm happy and grateful I still have years to enjoy.

That's kind of you to say. 

That's Cord's mother, who has a complicated backstory that isn't too worth getting into. She fell in love with Clint again and her jealousy of Viki, along with her deep loathing of Tina, made her go batshit.

I agree that as 1992 goes along the show is more confident in itself, shaking off some of the trappings Malone and Gottlieb inherited.