As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[soapfan770]

Thanks haha I should have known as I have enjoyed all of the eps saynotoursoap's put on.

Speaking of Diego's shooting, it it's alright with everyone else I'm going to summarize a couple February 1997 episodes from that time period that long been collecting dust in a box full of VHS tapes. The first one I have here I've dated to Friday, February 21st 1997, about a week after Diego was shot at the wedding. This episode is quite possibly Allyson Rice-Taylor's last ep or perhaps one of her last shows. Shawn Christian as Mike is also present and looks really hot. If anyone has ever seen the Charmed eps he did in '99(badly I might add ) he looks like how he did there here. The judge at Lily's arraignment is played Lewis Arlt, famous for his SFT and AW roles.

Funeral Home: Pilar is seen watching over Diego's body when Lucinda bursts in. Lucinda tells Pilar she must testify on Lily's behalf to prove that Diego was a dangerous man and terrorist. However a mourning Pilar refused and blamed Lily for Diego's death. Pilar claims that Diego was never like that until he came to Oakdale and got involved with the town. Pilar claims that Lily turned Diego evil because of her constant betrayals of him. Her and Lucinda argue more when Mike with a bandage on his head coming back from Ben's breaks it up. Lucinda uses Mike's head as an example of how bad Diego was but Pilar will have none of it and tosses Lucinda out. Mike tries to sooth an upset Pilar over but she is completely devastated by Diego's death and wants Lily to pay. Therefore she will be testifying against Lily at her arraignment. When Mike tries again Pilar breaks down, professing her love for Mike, her hatred for what Diego did, and her hatred that he was gunned down. Pilar sends Mike away to tell Lucinda about what she will be doing. However Mike lingers and eavesdrops on Pilar talking to Diego's corpse. Pilar vows to make Lily pay for her crime and to defend his honor. Suddenly Diego's voice responds "I hope so. What would I have left without my sister?" Mike looks horrified.

Police Station/Jail: Tom and Margo are arguing because Margo thinks it was her who killed Diego. Margo tries to convince Tom but fails. Margo argues with Tom about what she could in black out states like the one she was in at the wedding, but Tom brushes it off as just Margo misplacing her gun. Tom and Hal talk about the case. Tom tells Hal he's reducing Lily's charges to involuntary manslaughter while Hal apologizes about putting Margo through an tough interrogation. Tom tells Hal he's sure the gun will show up and that he hates pressing charges on Lily for killing a man who put Margo and the rest of Oakdale through hell.

Jessica is informing Lily of Tom's plea offer and Lily says she will agree to it when Holden storms in screaming "No way in hell!" Holden and Lily argue over what she is trying to do what is best for her. With the plea offer, Jessica explains Lily would only get a couple years in prison. Lily believes it would be better to only be away for a couple years than be away from Luke the rest of her life. Holden remains unconvinced, but Lily declares she is doing what is best for her and Luke. Holden insists that Lily should plead not guilty. Margo comes in to visit Lily and tells her about her blackout states. Margo tells Lily about losing her gun and that she thinks she may have shot Diego. Lily insists to Margo it was her who put a bullet in Diego. Holden brings Luke to jail and Hal allows Lily to hold him in her cell. Holden tells Lily that Luke can't live without her mother. Lucinda comes by and insists that Lily plead not guilty because there's not a jury in the world who would convict her once they knew what kind of man Diego was, but Lily was still very uncertain. Later Lily breaks down before going to the bond arraignment. Lucinda blasted Jessica for convincing Lily to accept the plea bargain but Jessica quips Lily is a grown and smart woman. Lucinda claims Jessica that she is incapable of understanding about how a mother and child can be ripped apart but Jessica reminds Lucinda she is a mother herself.

Hospital: Ben show's Mike the x-rays of his head injury. Diego had struck Mike on the head with a lead pipe. Ben and Mike chitchat about Diego's murder case. Mike tells Ben he's a suspect in the case as well as he has both the motive and means to kill Diego. Mike then leaves for the funeral home.

Connor's: Cal drops by Connor's house looking for Mark about work with Kasnoff Construction. Connor tells Cal Mark's not home. A suspicious Cal starts inquiring and says he saw them at Diego and Lily's wedding. Connor tries to change the subject to Luke and Lily but it Cal keeps prying at a nervous Connor. Connor finally breaks and tells Cal that Mark found evidence that Diego had killed Jones. Connor tells Cal she tried to talk Mark out of going to the wedding but he wanted his revenge. Connor tells Cal she has not seen Mark since Diego was shot, he's vanished. Cal assures Connor will come back complete with explanation. Connor is thankful to Cal for the support in spite of past differences which Cal responds anytime but is obviously now intrigued by Mark.

Courtroom: Outside Cal catches up with Hal and tells Hal about Mark. Hal becomes quite interested about Mark's disappearance. Suddenly we flash to a scene with a rough looking Mark sitting by a campfire stabbing a knife into the ground.

Lily's arraignment hearing begins. The judge calls for Lily Santana to rise. Lucinda quickly shrieks "Excuse me your honor but it's Lily GRIMALDI!" An appalled Lily answers to the name Lily Santana by saying technically yes. Tom announces the reduced the charge from second-degree murder to involuntary manslaughter. When the judge asks how does Lily plea, she's about to speak but suddenly looks back at Holden holding Luke.

Edited August 18, 2011 by soapfan770

[DRW50]

Thanks for recapping that. This was just about it for SC Mike. I can't remember if he left town with boring Pilar or not.

This was when Margo and Tom had to keep saying "fugue state." No thanks. FMB was a big part of killing my affection for these two characters, and it never came back.

ART's last episode was, I believe, at the Kasnoff house, talking on the phone. In the next episode Susan Batten was there, in the same outfit.

[soapfan770]

Mike did leave town with Pilar for like about two months after this. They left to join some formula one racing team or something and I think Mark and Connor joined them when they left town. I must say Roselyn Sanchez's acting ability has certainly came along way from this! Sheffer later did bring Pilar back in 2004 as a deranged psycho who killed rabbits paid by Simon to keep Mike and Katie separated.

Edited August 18, 2011 by soapfan770

[DRW50]

I'd forgotten that she came back. Then again you could not pay me to watch ATWT by that time. I guess they recast.

[Mitch]

What did FMB do to Tom and Margo that made them so unappealing (actually I never got the appeal of Dolan and Holmes Tom and Margo...its as if T & M went through three personalities...the Deas/Colin hippy T & M, the Marx/Whatsherface T & M (my favorite) as more normal people (and one half being hot as f*ck) and the Dolan/Holmes T & M who were uptight, annoying, sexless bores.

Never understood why no one ever recast Holmes as Tom...

[DRW50]

Tom and Margo had a lot of humor, fun moments, and family time when Holmes and Dolan were in the roles. In the first few years anyway. It really started to go downhill with Valente/Black & Stern but it was FMB who put them in one story after another that involved Margo yelling, Tom yelling, Margo being disoriented and dumb and Tom being self-righteous and dour.

The worst story was that godawful mess where teenage Eddie "man" Silva moved in with them and was lusting after Margo. Really?? Then you had Emily becoming this pathetically unhinged loser who went out of her way to destroy Margo's marriage in spite of Margo's kindness toward her over the years. The most disgusting was when Margo had a miscarriage and Emily convinced Tom that Margo was on her way to an abortion clinic.

The story destroyed the last shreds of anything I ever knew in Tom and Margo, and after FMB was canned, no one ever cared about picking up the pieces. Frankly, I think you could have written them out and it wouldn't have made a big difference to the show's last ten years. Other than yelling at Casey or Margo having to deal with her sleazy pig of a brother and her brain dead sociopath of a sister...when the show remembered they were related

Edited August 18, 2011 by CarlD2

[Mitch]

Hmmm, I must have missed the yucks that either Dolan or Holmes ever brought to their roles. I remember them being quite dour going back to Marland (though I do remember a scene where Margo was laughing it up with Tom over airplane food and it was supposed to show them back in their charming devil may care days but it just fell flat..kind of like how Marland had to "tell," us that Ellie was funny because he couldnt really write humor.) I thought they were dour going back to Margos rape and yes, I realize it was well written and realistic and well acted and all that but I am sick of strong women being raped (I know it happens all the time in real life) on soaps and having to sit through socially relevant storylines so writers can win awards. Was the rape before or after Margo pulled the plug on Casey, another laugh fest involving Tom and Margo. ( I am not making fun of your opinion so I hope it doesnt sound like it.)

I really think they should have just wrote them out back before it got to Holmes and Dolan. Marx and HBS were the last time that they were fun and had chemistry (can you really see Holmes and Dolan going at it in the sack???) But then, I would never had Margo sleep with Hal (how the hell did that happen anyway, I forget) which I think goes back to "ruining," them and made Tom look like a neutered fool.

I do see why they would have Emily chase after Tom. She was always messed up and looking for a father figure, and at least on paper, Tom was that. I agree that FMB and everyone after her just made Emily a freakin evil loon. A triangle involving Margo, Tom and a sympathetic but still screwed up Emily could have lasted years and had effects on the extended families of the Hughes and the Stewarts...(but then you would have had to have Ellen there.) But yea, I think the Eddie Silva thing was stupid, (even though I found the actor kind of hot in an "Im embarrassed to admit it, " way) but the worst was that rich guy who I think was supposed to be a villian that Margo screwed. At least Eddie was humpy and stupid and you could send him on his way after having your way with him!

[DRW50]

At the time, in Dolan's first run, I thought there was a very good balance of drama and everyday life. There were a lot of moments where they'd sit around eating takeout, talking about the kids, laughing because another friend or relative is at the door when they want to have some romantic time. It felt very real to me. I do think it started to get worse after Margo's rape, and never really recovered, but I thought there was still a semblance up to around the time of the plane crash and then finally the Diego murder mystery. That story was week after week of Margo having "episodes," and screaming, while Tom screamed at her and about her. After that it was never the same for me, and this became the default mode of the characters.

I never understood the idea behind the Alec Wallace character. Oakdale already had one repressed control freak with dark secrets (David/Reid), so let's bring in another one for concurrent stories?

Michael Woods could have been an asset to the show under different circumstances. He might have been an OK Craig. He couldn't have been worse than most of the recasts.

[soapfan770]

As bad as it was at least Tom and Margo had actual storylines in the late 90s where as under Sheffer Tom was on the very backburner while Margo was cheerleader for Katie and Craig before good old Hoggie had her and the very married Jessica fighting over studly and abusive man whore Doc Reese(typical Sheffer eh?) That story coupled with Cabot saga made me tune out for several months in the fall of '04.

Passassante was kinder to them but wrote them as either the world's worst/most oblivious parents and also turned them into being more pretentious.

[edgeofnik]

The most amazing thing was that the writers planned to make Emily Alec's killer, but, thank goodness, CBS stepped in and say "H*ll to the No!" I have to thank CBS for making that decision, even though Emily character assassination continued. I never understood why they just used Emily as a punching bad - I had to quit for awhile when they made her a prostitute - really - journalist to hooker? As KMH said "It's disgusting", but she was always a team player. ITA - the Tom, Margo, Emily triangle was not explored in the best possible way. Oh, well.

[saynotoursoap]

Your snarkisms are laugh out loud funny and always come when I need a good yuk.

[DRW50]

Thanks. I am glad they don't seem TOO bitter. ATWT and GL are the two I always have the most attachment for, probably always will.

[saynotoursoap]

Not too bitter for me, as I have few fond memories of anything post Laurie Caso, and I am alternately infuriated and revolted at the damage Sheffer and Goutman did to a series that was once my favorite in all of daytime.

[DRW50]

I took a powder for most of the 00's so I feel kind of like I don't have the right to complain too much but it is just so frustrating seeing what this show easily could have been with common sense and effort. The last year shows some of that unrealized potential. And even then, with some of the great moments, there was the spitefulness of Goutman. I guess I should be happy it ended fairly intact considering what has become of shows like GH.

[DRW50]

This is from a February 1971 Afternoon TV about soap actresses and their husbands.