I thought I'd open since it's been a week. It still doesn't seem real.

2 hours ago, adrnyc said:

I just watched her "reign" a few months ago as I make my way through the series again. She was on for 2, maybe 3, episodes and that was it. It was around the holidays. Sierra came back with her but we saw much more of Sierra. They use Seyfried's photo constantly as the Hong Kong Syndicate is threatening Craig's family for the money he owes them. But, other than that, there's nothing til the Peyton List recast.

Exactly. It's literally a handful of episodes. The scenes I remember are with Maura West, as Lucy snottily asks if Carly's Craig's mistress. She then goes on about how parents don't understand the damage they do to their kids, which leads to Carly going to Julia I and apologizing for throwing the (cheap looking) Christmas stocking Julia bought for her and Jack's unborn child. 

If Seyfried got paid for the use of her photo, she got a good deal.

From reading the first pages of the early 1991 plans, it looked as though the Carolyn Crawford murder was always planned to span months (going to at least May 1992 sweeps). 

His first mistake was the victim he picked was someone that the viewers didn't really know nor care about.  I think she was only on the show on and off for several months, but we didn't really get to know/care about her.

His second mistake was having Frannie be the other woman/follow up wife.  Not because the actress wasn't capable (I prefer her to Julianne Moore), but because Frannie already had the psycho boyfriend story so why subject her to another psycho/killer.   

His third mistake was deciding to not make Daryl the killer, and I have a feeling his decision to change that caused the story to drag even longer because he had to figure out who could logically be the killer.

His fourth mistake was the use of so many small parts/characters that viewers didn't know nor care about.. that ended up killed just as they were going to reveal vital information.

The one minor character I think was interesting was Dana.  She was kind of a hot mess and was kind of comedic in her performances.. and I do recall she did kind of intersect with other characters during major events for a time.  

34 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

From reading the first pages of the early 1991 plans, it looked as though the Carolyn Crawford murder was always planned to span months (going to at least May 1992 sweeps). 

His first mistake was the victim he picked was someone that the viewers didn't really know nor care about.  I think she was only on the show on and off for several months, but we didn't really get to know/care about her.

His second mistake was having Frannie be the other woman/follow up wife.  Not because the actress wasn't capable (I prefer her to Julianne Moore), but because Frannie already had the psycho boyfriend story so why subject her to another psycho/killer.   

His third mistake was deciding to not make Daryl the killer, and I have a feeling his decision to change that caused the story to drag even longer because he had to figure out who could logically be the killer.

His fourth mistake was the use of so many small parts/characters that viewers didn't know nor care about.. that ended up killed just as they were going to reveal vital information.

The one minor character I think was interesting was Dana.  She was kind of a hot mess and was kind of comedic in her performances.. and I do recall she did kind of intersect with other characters during major events for a time.  

100%.  Thank goodness Marland always had about 10 storylines cooking each week to keep the show interesting. It helped distract from the Crawford mess.

On 2/20/2025 at 2:06 PM, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I liked how Duncan and Jessica's relationship caused Lisa to deal with long-held prejudices but I never bought that the character who would have the problem would be Lisa. Lisa was always a progressive free-spirit. I would have bought that storyline if it had been Nancy with the problem since she was always conservative and could be judgmental. Perhaps it was because Nancy wasn't really in the Duncan and Jessica orbit or because Marland had so defanged Nancy by this time. I also didn't buy Nancy being so accepting of Hank Elliot being gay. Anyway, I think it was a good story idea but I just feel like Lisa got shoehorned into the story. I honestly don't think Lisa would have cared at all that Duncan and Jessica were mixed race. I think they just put her in that place to give her something to do and because she fit the age of the generation that is more likely to have a problem with it. I think that storyline should have gone to Nancy. 

found this on page 37 of the marland 1991 longterm. looks like doug had the same idea initially. i do think it made more sense storywise for lisa to question the marriage. 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited March 21Mar 21 by wonderwoman1951

12 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

From reading the first pages of the early 1991 plans, it looked as though the Carolyn Crawford murder was always planned to span months (going to at least May 1992 sweeps). 

His first mistake was the victim he picked was someone that the viewers didn't really know nor care about.  I think she was only on the show on and off for several months, but we didn't really get to know/care about her.

His second mistake was having Frannie be the other woman/follow up wife.  Not because the actress wasn't capable (I prefer her to Julianne Moore), but because Frannie already had the psycho boyfriend story so why subject her to another psycho/killer.   

His third mistake was deciding to not make Daryl the killer, and I have a feeling his decision to change that caused the story to drag even longer because he had to figure out who could logically be the killer.

His fourth mistake was the use of so many small parts/characters that viewers didn't know nor care about.. that ended up killed just as they were going to reveal vital information.

The one minor character I think was interesting was Dana.  She was kind of a hot mess and was kind of comedic in her performances.. and I do recall she did kind of intersect with other characters during major events for a time.  

You aren't wrong about any of this, but I only have one real issue with the story.

I don't think making Darryl the killer was the best idea, because it's just so predictable and there wasn't going to be enough fallout (the real fallout was Darryl leaving town alive, as, in a world where Frannie was recast and Jennifer learned about her father, or if Connor had stayed around given the odd decision to create a past fling between them, there was plenty you could do with him), but they should have done a better job finding another killer. The Harpers, or Arthur - who cares? If they were going to have a minor character as the killer, I might have gone with Dana, as she didn't go on to have any purpose once the plot was over anyway.

When I was able to watch at the time, I never felt the story was overly confusing or boring because I just cared about Frannie and the turmoil she was in. To me that was the engine. And in recent years, when I've rewatched, Frannie, as well as Barbara and the fallout she suffered from her paternity lies, still make me feel invested. The parade of bit players is OK with me because they are often just rattled through Margo and Tom, and this is when they still felt like real people instead of shouting all their lines. This is where my feeling connected to the central characters was key - once that connection was broken, I had a much harder time, which is why I thought the whole Diego murder storyline was somewhere between boring and wretched.

The only stories at this point on ATWT that bothered me were the stories with characters like Hutch and Rosanna, which bored me to tears, aside from Tess' bitchy asides. 

Reading this and being in the middle of early '87 myself (with Frannie a year out from Doug Cummings and not too far off from when her next fiance will sleep with her identical sister), I just can't see how they could justify having Frannie embroiled in a long storyline with another calculating madman, making yet again the worst possible choice in a man.

Edited March 22Mar 22 by Vee

12 minutes ago, Vee said:

Reading this and being in the middle of early '87 myself (with Frannie a year out from Doug Cummings and not too far off from when her next fiance will sleep with her identical sister), I just can't see how they could justify having Frannie embroiled in a long storyline with another calculating madman, making yet again the worst possible choice in a man.

And that's probably why Marland got cold feet.

The story is a whirlwind, probably too much so (Frannie and Darryl are intimate only a few months after Carolyn's murder), but Darryl never comes across as being as much of a heavy as Cummings did, so it's not as much of a retread as it could have been. 

I thought I read that the reason that Marland backtracked was due to Rex Smith's likeability, that they listened to the feedback from fans and changed the story. Unfortunately (just as in Suspicion) it ruins careful plotting and cheated the audience. Frankly, Rex Smith would've made a convincing sociopath, simply because his acting was that shallow.

17 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I thought I read that the reason that Marland backtracked was due to Rex Smith's likeability, that they listened to the feedback from fans and changed the story. Unfortunately (just as in Suspicion) it ruins careful plotting and cheated the audience. Frankly, Rex Smith would've made a convincing sociopath, simply because his acting was that shallow.

I've heard that too. I think Smith did a decent job with a character who on paper was extremely vague, and he also had chemistry with Mary Ellen Stuart, which hadn't been the case with some of her other love interests. I can see why Marland was torn. But I also think they were hedging their bets much of the way through because there were a number of occasions where I felt like the writing tilted more toward a framing of what happens when someone who seems like the perfect murder suspect actually isn't, instead of laying out a case for viewers the way they did with Doug Cummings. 

I do wonder if they realized how quickly Rex Smith was going to leave and if Marland had plans to recast the character if he'd lived.

Edited March 22Mar 22 by DRW50

I think the idea of an involved mystery where a frankly deeply ambiguous/unsympathetic or flawed character is teased as the murderer, then proven not to be and everyone has to find a way to go on with their lives, the suspect included, is interesting (a la the movie

Spoiler

Presumed Innocent, which also has a deeply unsettling lead suspect.)

That just didn't seem to be the aim here. 

Edited March 22Mar 22 by Vee

21 minutes ago, Vee said:

I think the idea of an involved mystery where a frankly deeply ambiguous/unsympathetic or flawed character is teased as the murderer, then proven not to be and everyone has to find a way to go on with their lives, the suspect included, is interesting (a la the movie

  Hide contents

Presumed Innocent, which also has a deeply unsettling lead suspect.)

That just didn't seem to be the aim here. 

You're right, but the story does end up playing out that way and I think is compelling in that context - the problem is the lack of any real aftermath. 

Reading some of the other 1991 outlines, it does appears as though what was written actually translated to the screen.

I faintly remember the Cal/Lucinda/Lyla situation... and it was a shame that Cal/Lucinda didn't proceed past a physical relationship.. but both were stubborn and too strong willed to have made a relationship last long term.  Though Cal/Lyla also didn't seem to have long term legs either and it also didn't last beyond 1992/3 if I recall correctly.

It looks as though Lisa and Ellen were in back-up position in these outlines, and while Lisa did move back into lead position in 1992/3.. Ellen never did even though it looked as though killing David off in the summer of 1991 was the first step to getting Ellen back into a more prominent position, which didn't happen.  

Outside of Emily, I don't think Marland was as motivated to write for the Stewarts as he was for the Hughes, Walsh, and Snyders.  In his defense, when he got to the show.. only Betsy, Ellen, and David were on the show... and he wasn't motivated to write for Betsy/Steve nor Ellen/David was previous writers were.   Even after Betsy became a free agent in 1986, the writing for Betsy was just not as strong and it appeared that was also the case for Ellen even after she was freed up after David's death.

It's the direct opposite of the Dobson's and the other head writers that came before Marland.  If you look at the show from 1980 to 1985, the Stewart family had a lot more focus then the Hughes family with Dee, Annie, Ellen, Betsy, and David in various stories.  Too much story was probably burned through for them, but Dee could have easily come back during the Marland years.

9 hours ago, DRW50 said:

, and he also had chemistry with Mary Ellen Stuart, which hadn't been the case with some of her other love interests. 

I'm blanking on who they even tried her with---Ed Fry and the dude who played Sean Baxter?  (I nearly did a spit take when I read that line about how the audience liked Larry--uh, maybe?) I liked MES, but she wasn't what I'd call a chemistry magnet. She had more chem over on GL playing a cop.

On 3/21/2025 at 8:00 AM, Soaplovers said:

The one minor character I think was interesting was Dana.  She was kind of a hot mess and was kind of comedic in her performances.. and I do recall she did kind of intersect with other characters during major events for a time.  

The funniest thing Marland ever wrote (unintentionally ) was someone throwing pregnant Dana off a balcony or something, and characters were having a conversation in front of a window and there goes Dana flying by....and she was okay?!?!?