ATWT July 2010 Discussion Thread

[P.J.]

Carly got with the program. She's twisted herself into a pretzel, sheltering Jan while Dusty was in the hospital, gritting her teeth when Jack escorted Jan to Ciccone-rama (Rocco's funeral), and generally tolerating Jack treating that bimbo like the second coming of The Madonna who's knocked up with a kid who "was destined to save Libby Lou."

The fact Carly snarked about everyone bowing and scraping to Janet because she was pregnant isn't the same as resenting the child. IF Carly knew how Jan's been all "touchy feely" with Jack lately (at the lamaze class and her hopeful little "oh, are we moving in together" remark), she'd have probably done a lot more than throw a minor hissy fit and storm out of dinner with Big Red.

Jack lied to her. He didn't tell her about his little plan, when he had PLENTY of opportunity to. Maybe Carly doesn't quite trust Jack wants her and only her because ever since he's told her he wanted to walk away from his marriage back in January, some situation's popped up that kept him from doing so completely. Libby got sick---Jack didn't NEED to stay, his guilt (along with Jan "needing him as a husband") kept him there. Jack tells Carly he doesn't know when they'll be together. Carly finds out about the affair---Jack tells Carly it doesn't matter--and he STILL considers knocking Janet up. Jack ultimately decides not to---but it's too late, Jan's miracle egg fertilized. Jack then becomes uber-concerned with Jan's love life, afraid Thugsy will contaminate his child and Jack balks at the divorce.

Are you sensing a trend yet? And this isn't even the first divorce Jack's found himself continuing to jump to the Ex's tune. JuliaI went nuts, and Jack ended up staying in that marriage and signing over Carly's Prize to her. JuliaII (when the marriage wasn't even legal) twisted his gnards over seeing JJ before she died her hideous death. No wonder Carly pales at thinking of the Red Terror twisting Jack into knots for the next forever.

[Ann_SS]

This is why I am done with Carly who used to be my favorite character. I don't even bother to comment on her scenes any more. She has been ruined, scarified on the altar of Jaaaaack.

[ChiTownBoi03]

Carly pretended to get with the program. Jack told her point blank "Janet and this baby are going to apart of our lives, are you sure you're gonna be okay with that?" Carly said alright because she wanted her G-man while crossing her fingers behind her back. Its not like Jack doesn't give a s**t about Janet--I mean, they were married. I don't believe they were not in love. This guilt he feels, sounds more like a copout. Even though he loves Carly, that doesn't mean he automatically shuts off his concern and care for Janet--and vice versa. Now she's got his kid, and he wants to be involved.

As far as we know, Dusty isn't the kids father so I could see Janet accepting Jack's help more readily. Basically, Carly already admitted she's selfish and wants Jack all to herself, and ultimately she'll want her kids to come first. Just because most significant others would feel that way, doesn't make it right, and leads to these *stepmonster* situations. I love Carly, but I *do not* like her when shes with Jack. He makes her a triflin mess. If this is too much for Carly, she should just tell Jack to take a hike--and actually mean it.

[juniorz1]

I just have to say that Carly was friggin AWESOME on Wednesday in those dinner scenes with Jack, Janet, & Dusty. From calling Janet on not accepting Dusty's help but taking Jack's, to flat out telling Dusty he kisses Juicy's ass so she won't leave him, to the penultimate- Carly's squealing at Janet (can't remember the exact line) when Janet accused her of feeling threatened. LOVED IT!!

[P.J.]

Chi---we're just not going to agree on this. Carly, MORE THAN ANYONE, knows what "the program" entails, she's ALREADY adopted JJ and raised him for years. If you don't want to cut Carly slack after being excluded and lied to---fine. Carly's not asking (and she's never) asked Jack not to care about the kid or Janet or Liberty. She's asking to get some validation on what she means to Jack. And sometimes, she seems like an afterthought. Jack totally rewrote their disagreement about Parker when it suited him. He's asked A LOT from her, and it seems like the more Carly understands, the MORE he asks her to understand. So she blew her top.

Dusty said a lot of the same things to Janet when he found out about the little cabin in the woods, and I bet it never crossed your mind to think he needed to "get with the program".

Anyhoo....on to today. I love Colleen---that fantasy was CRAP. It reminds me of the horrid Dobson era when James drugged Barbara and she had a six month "past life" storyline.

And YEAH Henry getting some balls. 'Bout time he told V and Bubbles off in no uncertain terms.

[ChiTownBoi03]

Jack has already told Carly 800 different ways that he doesn't want to be with Janet, what she means to her, and that he loves her. So because Jack failed to mention the cabin, you actually think that makes him worse than all the lies and schemes shes pulled on HIM? Dusty being upset about the cabin makes sense to me, only because Janet rarely gives him the time of day. He's practically chasing her at this point.

But after Carly lied to try to keep Parker out of prison, Jack still came back (interestingly enough after that intense disagreement) to try to make her see how much she means to him. What more does she want? I can't cut her any slack because she can't get enough attention or validation. If you want to see Carly as the stepped upon victim, have at it--I suppose we just won't agree here.

However, we DO agree--that fantasy was just Totally took me right out of the episode. Will is looking mighty fine!

[DRW50]

I was looking through the most recent SOD in a bookstore and for the fan poll for favorite actor, actress, couple of the week for each soap, Colleen Zenk was favorite actress. I wonder if that's the first time she's been in one of those polls, at least in recent years. I know it's not a life-changing honor but I'm glad that she is getting some recognition after not exactly being at the center of the show for a long time.

[P.J.]

Carl, CZ's been at the top of that SOD poll for at least the last year. IMHO, she's the beard of choice for the Nuke fans.

[DRW50]

Really? I guess that tells you how often I look through most of SOD. I had assumed Maura, Terri, or Marie were at the top.

Maybe the poll helped them give her more story then...

[DeliaIrisFan]

I've been trying to watch (or DVR and fast-forward, as needed) ATWT regularly this summer, while I still have the chance. I've never been a regular viewer, but I've watched it enough to be familiar with most of the longtime characters/cast.

On the one hand, I was surprised to see how watchable much of it is. To me, this is not a show on its last leg. In every episode I've seen, there has easily been something engaging enough to stop and watch. I know ATWT (like all soaps) has had uneven writing for a long time, and even in a few weeks I've noticed many of the holes in the stories. But they've got what's probably the best cast in daytime now, and so many of the characters have been around long enough that most of the present stories can't help but be textured by history, even if it's probably unintentional on the writers' part much of the time. It's great to see Barbara and Lucinda have stuff to do, and to at least see Bob and Kim on-screen one last time. I'll even go out on a limb and say that I think most of the newer characters (and many of the recasts playing characters who have familiar names), however ill-conceived their presence on the canvas may be, are played by capable actors.

On the other hand, as someone just starting to watch who doesn't fully understand the context of what's been happening, I'm really struck by how stuck in the past the stories seem, and not in a way that is honoring the show's history at all. I really felt a sense of deja vu in one of the first episodes I saw, watching Jack and Carly argue over whether or not she should take some large sum of insurance(?) money that had serendipitously fallen into her lap, because Craig had made it happen, and Jack was sure Craig was working some angle, and of course he was. I am certain that I saw these two characters in this exact same predicament a decade ago. Have they really been breaking up and getting back together over the exact same thing for ten years? Clearly these two performers are deserving of something more original (I think I've taken them for granted every time I've watched them, but the recent Emmy wins really reminded me that I've never seen a false note from either of them, and they've probably made a lot of half-baked plots fly over the years).

Beyond the fact that these recycled plot devices are a waste of time for this cast, I feel like ATWT's final months present some perfect examples of how soaps have allowed themselves to become irrelevant to a 21st century audience. I would hazard a guess that viewers who are out of work and/or whose homes are in foreclosure probably found Carly's latest windfall that she has the luxury of rejecting on some sort of moral high ground much less charming than they might have the first time this plot device was used. I also think it's downright depressing that in 2010, two separate stories on this show at the same time hinge on adults who are supposed to be intelligent (at least I think we're supposed to see them as intelligent) not having effectively used birth control. It sticks out like a sore thumb to me how antiquated the world these characters inhabit continues to be, and how many opportunities for more realistic, timelier stories, characters, and relationships have been squandered. I've only seen Reid 2-3 times this month, but it's already clear to me why he has created such a stir, aside from the fact that the actor seems like a real find. I know I'd so much rather be watching daytime's first gay anti-hero than whiny Janet or pathetic Vienna, who can't exercise any kind of power over their own love lives unless they're pregnant.

There is so much about this show that is still vibrant and that has adapted to changing times and that I believe could continue to evolve and entertain audiences for another 54 years. But someone who doesn't see a future for soaps could easily watch an episode of ATWT and say that it's still a show about rigid, upper class, uber-straight white people who still haven't reached the point in history in which most of the rest of us are living, and that it has nothing to offer viewers today. That's sad, and I wish the execs at other networks/shows that are barely treading water who have crawled out of the woodwork to dance on ATWT's (and GL's) graves would take note. Not likely, I know.

[P.J.]

Yes, to my chagrin, for the most part, Carly and Jack are still arguing about the same basic issues---her lying and his need to do the right thing, no matter how stupid.

There are two pregnancy plots, and however dated the Vienna scamming Henry into marriage with a fake pregnancy is, Janet is pregnant by design. Liberty (her daughter) had leukemia (since gone into remission). Janet got scared when no one in their family (besides Jan's dad who couldn't donate for medical reasons) was a compatible bone marrow match. She convinced Jack to impregnate her, in hopes of the baby being a match, since Jack was Brad's sibling.

ICAM...as inconsistent as the writing is, the cast is top notch. If this were ten years ago, all we'd be facing is a new HW regime.

[Ann_SS]

DeliaIrisFan, I enjoyed reading your perspective on ATWT. I especially agreed with the bit that I quoted above. I'm convinced that for the most part the headwriters and executives want to take the soaps back to their childhood in the 50s and 60s where there was no diversity and women were solidly second class citizens in the mistaken belief that this is what their desired white female audience wants, but a lot of these women have moved on socially and a bunch of them voted for Obama so they are not afraid of black people. There really is a disconnect so although the daytime audience is dwindling, they also do not relate the stories on the soaps any more.

[DRW50]

It's a vicious circle, because the networks probably justify their prejudices by saying the audience won't put up with anything else, yet what do they expect when they do their best to alienate anyone who would put up with it? This is why I don't believe the daytime drama genre had to die -- I think if they had made an effort to move with the times, as they did in the 60s and 70s, then more of them might have survived. Instead it's just been more and more regression over the past 15 years. It's not right that ATWT was more diverse in 1990 than it is in 2010.

I kind of wonder sometimes if Reid's popularity is the reason why he has so little to do now. If that annoyed someone at the show. It's a shame because I enjoyed watching him with the Hughes family, that was the type of old school writing I miss with ATWT. I don't care about Reid/Luke, so I don't have any real reason to watch any of that.

[DeliaIrisFan]

Oh, my...dare I ask if they at least had the sense to go the artificial insemination route, or was the extra sturm und drang that could be milked out of Jack cheating on Carly and getting Janet pregnant simply too much for the writers to pass up?

Liberty is the girl who is having problems with Parker mooning over Craig's son, right? I never in a million years would have guesses she was dying of leukemia less than 9 months ago. It's truly a miracle that she was able to make a full recovery in time for the obligatory summer teen story involving a never-before-mentioned, long-lost child.

[DeliaIrisFan]

The lack of racial diversity is really glaring. I've been watching all month and I don't think I've even seen a black character trotted out for a 30-second scene listening to a white character talk about their drama. Not that that would be an improvement, but are there no black actors or actresses in the cast whatsoever?

As far as how women and pregnancy are being depicted, is it possible that Lisa became such a legend in her day in part because there was something empowering on some level at that time about Lisa using her pregnancy with Tom to trap Bob into a marriage that gave her what (she thought) she wanted in life? I could see how a character like that would be subversive in a way, at a time when unmarried women couldn't buy birth control and abortion was illegal. In real life, if a woman got pregnant, the best-case scenario was that the guy would marry her, but even then she'd be trapped as a wife or mother in much the same way that Lisa successfully trapped a man into marriage. But in the 21st century, Vienna doesn't remind me of anyone I know, or would want to know. Women still don't have equal opportunities, but they have more promising options than faking a pregnancy.