I had forgotten about AMC because I put that more of a family going back to the 80s, but you're right, they were better than what ATWT tried. OLTL had the potential but minus DD, who was very good, most of the characters were recurring and/or poorly cast and never had much of a chance. Rachel went back to her role of Tea talk-to after about six months.

I was never a big fan of Jessica/Ben, although part of that was I just loved her with Duncan and I was still bitter about how that relationship ended. I think that the potential was there for better story and I remember there was at least some initial excitement about Marshall. I thought there was something which fans might let them build on, which is an important first step. Sadly that didn't happen.

I agree that it was great having Rachel and Layla as different characters and different stories. It was so nice to see the old rule broken about how you can only have one black woman on a soap at a time if they aren't related or in a story together. I'm sorry that that had to end.

Supposedly Sheffer had created the Marshall story because he was wild about Tunie, gushed about her in the press, and wanted to showcase her, which I can understand as motivation. Sitting on Tamara Tunie in your daytime cast is like carrying Erika Slezak around in your back pocket. It's safe to say he went about it in the wrong way. I was not surprised when they killed Marshall despite a half-assed redemption; I was only surprised it happened so quickly.

I do think Destiny and Greg are ill-cast and their family would not be my choice for what to do with the black canvas, but I think it's workable with the right people and I thought they made an effort with Greg initially, and are still trying to do something with the others. They also appear to be ramping up to something legitimately interesting with Greg, Rachel and Sky and the Sierra case, which I'm very interested in, so I hate the idea that it's all going to go poof because Duplaix was let go...why? For what? They very clearly have been wanting to put her with Sky.

Edited March 2, 201015 yr by Vee

And none of them were doing a thing, really, except Marshall. So I could understand the initial excitement at the time. All Ben and Isaac ever did was worry about Jessica and Bonnie. I didn't buy or care for Ben and Jessica, at all; it seemed like a limp way to just smash the black characters together by default. And frankly Parros was in no way in Tunie's league.

I thought Issac owned a club and was a friend to Dusty? I was young but I vaguely remember Issac dancing with Bonnie while Dusty was brooding in the background.

I will disagree about ATWT's prospects back then. They had three floating black men, two related, all orbiting one mother and daughter.

Three black men on ATWT seems to be an accomplishment by today's standards.

I think both AMC with the Hubbards' initial return and OLTL until the firing of Duplaix's Rachel had much more potential. OLTL still has some to work from, I just doubt they'll utilize it properly;

AMC trumps OLTL because the Hubbards' are still onscreen.

I think Rachel was the compass and the long-running character which all fans could care about, and where many of the black and white characters intersected, whereas Layla has a different circle of friends and extended family and a different appeal to fans who also enjoyed Rachel. This worked when you had both women because just because they were both black, that didn't mean they had to know each other or be friends or hang out all the time; I don't think they ever even met, at least not thus far. They were part of different worlds, just like people IRL.

I htink having Rachel on the show was a sign that they were willing to at least uphold a standard. Having Rachel and Layla meant that they were willing to surpass the standards.

I agree Layla should still at least be an entrepreneur, but I would've liked to see her go back to acting. She could have gone to star on Bo, Megan and Snoop's old soap Fraternity Row, providing a fun story for her and her end of the canvas and allowing for another meta-commentary on the state of daytime.

I don't think acting is a viable profession for a soap character though I always thought they would tap into that by having her impersonate others. I think I remember her impersonating Jessica to get a job for some reason.

I don't think acting is a viable profession for a soap character though I always thought they would tap into that by having her impersonate others. I think I remember her impersonating Jessica to get a job for some reason.

Rauch managed to write stories for Megan and Mari Lynn Dennison through their acting careers, but I guess that was when they had budget for more sets (Fraternity Row).

I'd like to see Layla back in scenes with Dorian. I think Dorian could use that give and take and someone she can confide in, as she has no one in her family.

Vee, I guess they may have either decided they wanted to pair Sky with a white woman or his days are also numbered and they're not going to focus on a romance for him. The firing was so abrupt. If it's because of budget, then that is sad, since there are so many who could go before Rachel.

Part of me feels like she never had a real chance. Wasn't Branco jeering her as soon as she arrived?

It's because acting is supposedly 'not viable' to do on a soap (and I can understand that notion) that I think it's so interesting as a challenge. They did it with Megan, who was a star on the show for a number of years; why not experiment again? I believe Carla also came back to Llanview in the '60s as an actress, BTW. She was also passing for Italian in order to further her career.

Both today's OLTL and Sheffer's ATWT had multiple black men onscreen at once (I would say three, but we shouldn't really count Frankie Faison, I suppose); unfortunately, I don't think much of any of them. Brothers Isaac and Ben had nothing to do - yes, Isaac ran support for guys like Dusty and owned a club for other people to have stories in - and Marshall we've discussed; Greg is Greg and might have some potential in this hospital story, and Shaun is two-dimensional and recurring (though featured often, much like other 'recurring stars' like Fish, and in the past, Cady McClain's Roseanna on ATWT). As for AMC, yes, they have the numbers now, but I don't count on them doing anything but continuing to support David and the other white heroes (didn't Ryan punch either Jesse or one of his officers and Jesse's response was to beg at Ryan's feet for him to please Hammer don't hurt 'em?) or debase Jesse and Frankie for the likes of Randi. That's not a defense of OLTL, it's simply an excoriation of AMC.

I think Rachel had a chance, and still should. Fans liked her. I don't think Nelson Branco was representative of anything but himself. He was attacking her in the hopes of promoting Tika Sumpter, a favorite of his and apparently a friend, and clearly feared for Sumpter's job in lieu of Duplaix. Branco, like the networks, is apparently under the impression that there can be only one. I didn't blame TS for it, but I thought it was disgraceful.

Edited March 2, 201015 yr by Vee

I think Rachel had a chance, and still should. Fans liked her. I don't think Nelson Branco was representative of anything but himself. He was attacking her in the hopes of promoting Tika Sumpter, a favorite of his and apparently a friend, and clearly feared for Sumpter's job in lieu of Duplaix. Branco, like the networks, is apparently under the impression that there can be only one. I didn't blame TS for it, but I thought it was disgraceful.

That's awful. I read his column but it didn't occur to me that he exerted so much power. I don't think he's a friend. I post at Daytime Confidential and he said it was hard to get an interview with her. I always thought his dislike of Rachel stemmed from his disinterest in Nora. He was very criticial of Bo and Nora's reunion and his promotion of Destiny was the only positive attribute he commended of that story. It's that type of attitude which serves to set progression backwards and it's shameful.

It's because acting is supposedly 'not viable' to do on a soap (and I can understand that notion) that I think it's so interesting as a challenge. They did it with Megan, who was a star on the show for a number of years; why not experiment again? I believe Carla also came back to Llanview in the '60s as an actress, BTW. She was also passing for Italian in order to further her career.

Great examples but I think that would require an investment from the network and the writers. Neither of which this character has.

Both today's OLTL and Sheffer's ATWT had multiple black men onscreen at once (I would say three, but we shouldn't really count Frankie Faison, I suppose); unfortunately, I don't think much of any of them. Brothers Isaac and Ben had nothing to do - yes, Isaac ran support for guys like Dusty and owned a club for other people to have stories in - and Marshall we've discussed; Greg is Greg and might have some potential in this hospital story, and Shaun is two-dimensional and recurring (though featured often, much like other 'recurring stars' like Fish, and in the past, Cady McClain's Roseanna on ATWT). As for AMC, yes, they have the numbers now, but I don't count on them doing anything but continuing to support David and the other white heroes (didn't Ryan punch either Jesse or one of his officers and Jesse's response was to beg at Ryan's feet for him to please Hammer don't hurt 'em?) or debase Jesse and Frankie for the likes of Randi. That's not a defense of OLTL, it's simply an excoriation of AMC.

The debasement of Black Characters is a constant theme in daytime. Its not lost on me that none of the Blacks are allowed to own property or businesses while middle-class citizens like John, Roxy and Rex are allowed to have multiple streams of income.

I'd love to see an Event Planner come to town. Layla is a gossipmonger so this would be ideal for someone like her if the writers were interested in spreading her around more.

AMC doesn't have just numbers. They have a core Black family with significant history and ties. I had hoped Rachel would be developed into an Angie type of character but I was wrong. I can't remember the last time a Black character procreated on a soap unless you count Lily Winters on Y&R.

Edited March 2, 201015 yr by Leia

I believe Daytime Confidential has said ABC is blocking any attempts to bring Kevin back full-time and is postponing this Joey recast search that has been going on for almost a year.

That's ridiculous.

Typical ABC but still ridiculous.

ATWT had 2 black men on at the same time.

Three.

Isaac, Ben & Marshall.

Four if you count Curtis.

I'm convinced of it now. They must think he's black.

:lol: :lol:

He's not even a loveable rapist like Todd. Just a RAPIST.

That's a perfect example that White Men can do ANYTHING & be "redeemable".

And he falls for the modern black female who is a receptionist at the police station.

When she isn't playing Supportive Black Girlfriend to her White Female Friends in her spare time.

Edited March 2, 201015 yr by DeeeDee

They had three black men on ATWT at that time (Isaac, Marshall, Ben), but Isaac was on the way out and after the initial excitement over Marshall

Isaac/Bonnie was one of the rare instances of a Minority being on the winning end of a romantic triangle which only really happened cause the romance involved two minorities.

And frankly Parros was in no way in Tunie's league.

Before her he was with the babyselling Jezebel & The Tragic Light Skinned Woman so Jessica was definitely a step up.

I agree Layla should still at least be an entrepreneur, but I would've liked to see her go back to acting. She could have gone to star on Bo, Megan and Snoop's old soap Fraternity Row, providing a fun story for her and her end of the canvas and allowing for another meta-commentary on the state of daytime.

The original Pratt Falls

Supposedly Sheffer had created the Marshall story because he was wild about Tunie, gushed about her in the press, and wanted to showcase her, which I can understand as motivation. Sitting on Tamara Tunie in your daytime cast is like carrying Erika Slezak around in your back pocket. It's safe to say he went about it in the wrong way. I was not surprised when they killed Marshall despite a half-assed redemption; I was only surprised it happened so quickly.

Hogan did Jessica SO wrong & after the Doc Reese debacle Tamara was backburnered until she left.

Hogan did Jessica SO wrong & after the Doc Reese debacle Tamara was backburnered until she left.

Rape victims and best friends fighting over a pig. Who came up with this story????

I was so surprised and happy that Tamara even came back, as she represented so much of what I loved about ATWT, but I couldn't even watch some of those last few years.

I still don't get why they fired Lauren B Martin. I thought the Camille/John friendship was a high point of those few years of ATWT when Laiman was headwriter.

And the whole thing with Denise selling her baby, talk about backing a character into the corner from the start.

AMC trumps OLTL because the Hubbards' are still onscreen.

But The Hubbards only exist to be degraded so they're about even.

I htink having Rachel on the show was a sign that they were willing to at least uphold a standard. Having Rachel and Layla meant that they were willing to surpass the standards.

Not if they don't use them beyond props.

If TPTB can keep Blair & Gigi in story there's NO excuse why they can't do the same for Rachel & Layla.

I'd like to see Layla back in scenes with Dorian. I think Dorian could use that give and take and someone she can confide in, as she has no one in her family.

Dorian gets the minority pals.

RJ, Layla, Amelia.

No one knows the struggles Dorian has seen.

As for AMC, yes, they have the numbers now, but I don't count on them doing anything but continuing to support David

Angie & Frankie are about to go under the bus for him BIG TIME.

and the other white heroes (didn't Ryan punch either Jesse or one of his officers and Jesse's response was to beg at Ryan's feet for him to please Hammer don't hurt 'em?)

The amazing thing is how readily FANS accept the writing for Jesse.

All they ever do is whine about how Jesse is "corrupt".

They NEVER blame the writing FOR Jesse or acknowledge that treatment would NEVER happen to Bo or Hal.

It's just "Jesse's corrupt".

Just like when Angie goes under the bus for David it will be "ANGIE IS NO SAINT CAUSE SHE BROKE INTO DAVID'S HOUSE TO PLANT DRUGS" even though it's something Angie would NEVER do.

Edited March 2, 201015 yr by DeeeDee