HBO: Game of Thrones

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

What did you think of the ending Julia? With the exception of episode 2 or 3 (whichever was Joffreys death I believe) I think all the episodes have ended horribly.

[Juliajms]

I didn't really care for it. Also not really sure what to take from it. A cult sacrificing babies to the god of death? I suppose it's scarier knowing that there is some intelligence behind the white walkers and just a pack of mindless zombies.

I also like it when the episodes end on Dany instead of start with her. The scene of her standing on top of that building flying the Targaryen flag would have been a good ending, imo. In a sense what's happening with her is a situation that's looming over the people at King's Landing (and all of Westeros), but the people who should be paying attention are distracted. Same with what's going on at The Wall really.

[Vee]

They're not changing the show around or adjusting the characters based on fan reaction - it's not like the bullshit we put up with on the soaps or some network show. On cable, especially from a preexisting template like GOT where the books have an existing story, these guys in particular are running the biggest show on television and they do whatever they want year after year. There is nothing and no one that could change that. If stupid TWD fanboys couldn't get half the women on that show killed off before the show damn well felt like doing it - and that's a show on basic cable, with mixed critical reception that is not the monster force that GOT is - then GOT is never going to do anything it doesn't want to do or [!@#$%^&*] with the characters just because the Internet said so. It is not worth worrying about.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

That's true (although I still wonder at times how much fan hate had to do with Andrea's death - that's for another thread though).

[Juliajms]

I agree with you. I think things are changing because of time and budget constraints. I can't be too critical because of those realites. Still the way Jon found out that Bran is alive seems to offhand to me, idk. It's a small grip ultimately.

I was glad to see that Jaime found a way to reclaim a shred of his honor, while managing to get Brienne and Podrick out of Dodge.

[Vee]

I did a serious series of embarrassing air punches and garbled cheers when they cut to Podrick as Brienne's new wingman. That is fantastic. And not just because I lust after Daniel Portman in a terrible way.

That Brienne/Jaime scene in the Kingsguard chamber (or wherever) is as close as they've come to a date. That got me. It's sort of a Remains of the Day thing, really - because of who they are and how they are, their stations in life, the way they're expected to conduct themselves, that was as close as they've come to expressing themselves to each other.

Before I started watching GOT I'd only seen Nikolaj Coster-Waldau in the truly so-so Guillermo del Toro production Mama, where he was sort of just the hapless husband to bounce off heroine Jessica Chastain and the monsters. I thought he was kind of a vague prettyboy there, but on this show he's shown so many facets, layers; he's just incredible. It makes you want to see him in some sort of film noir throwback thing, wearing a fedora and talking fast yet still dashing and damaged.

That Margaery and Tommen rendezvous was pitched just right, right on the line between sex and kid's stuff. Tommen was totally enrapt - Michelle MacLaren shot the silent gazes between them perfectly. Margaery is just the best. I'll comment on the rest in a bit, except I have to try and recall what happened to Locke last year - was he packed off to the Wall for chopping off Jaime's hand? He's played, of course, by the great Noah Taylor, who I remember best for the underseen and very good Max, where he played the young Adolf Hitler after World War I.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

I'd mostly seen NCW in various photos on sites devoted to appreciating men who are generously gifted below the waist (front and back...). Then I saw him in some Showtime pilot with Sam Page, set in the fashion industry, which I mostly watched to see Sam Page's ass. NCW played an aging male prostitute who, I believe, was gay but forcing himself to still service women as well. He did a decent job.

I had no idea what a good actor he truly was until I saw him as Jaime - his acting in the first season is what impressed me most, as Jaime was a jerk, but you could see the flashes of vulnerability underneath, those moments where he had to put up with Robert humiliating him, the moments when you realized no one in King's Landing had any respect or use for him. And he's been good ever since - such charisma even as Jaime was totally broken in seasons 2 and 3. There are a lot of scenes that would absolutely fail with a bad actor, like the long, slow, sad scene where he lures his cousin closer (to murder him and get out of the cage), sweet-talking him about the good old days all the while.

Edited April 28, 2014 by DRW50

[Vee]

I thought NCW made a good villain in Season 1, but he didn't really get me until Seasons 2 and 3 when they began peeling the onionskin. I will have to go back and rewatch S1 more during the off-season to try and catch some of the subtleties.

It struck me how much Jon acted and sounded like Ned/Sean Bean during his stuff at the Wall this week. This is really his season to come into his own, I think, as a future ruler. That orphaned farmer's boy they rescued from the wildlings is darling, but I'm sure he'll die first when the wildlings come. I didn't mind the Bran mention, though it was a little kludgy - they have only so much time and real estate in ten episodes and a huge amount of ground to cover in various stories from the books. I assume Locke has been sent by the Boltons to try and snoop, to verify the location of Bran and Rickon - to try and kill the last original heirs to Winterfell. I worry about Osha and Rickon; I believe they are scheduled to appear this year. His allegiances aside, what I liked about that last scene was how many men stood with Jon this time - whatever the Night's Watch is made up of, you still have men there, however downtrodden and damned for their crimes, who are making their own form of honor, as opposed to being highborn like Jon and Bran (or Jaime). I thought that was a running bit this week, maybe it's me, but I liked.

I remember Torchwood's Burn Gorman from last year, and I was surprised and thrilled to see him this week back again. The Craster's Keep situation is probably one of the most hellish and awful I've ever seen on the show, but boy, Owen Harper sure was made to drink wine from a human skull while drunkenly rambling about his lot in life. That was something else.

I was hardly upset or anything that Bran and the kids got captured - I don't see why anyone would be. I thought it was an exciting plot development in a story thread that desperately needed some after last year (and no, I don't care if Bran wouldn't give his name in the books; he's a twelve-year-old boy lost in the wilderness whose friends are being threatened by a drunken maniac). I truly fear for all of them, especially Hodor and poor, beautiful Thomas Sangster. Jojen looked absolutely horrible this week. Edge of my seat with that stuff.

It was a little mindblowing to see that whole Fortress of Solitude setup out there with the White Walkers. That was a trip. We can so easily forget about the real threat beyond the Wall, like all the characters do - out there, that weird [!@#$%^&*] seems to come from outer space. Great moment.

I really liked Grey Worm and Missandei in Meereen, well played by Jacob Anderson and Nathalie Emmanuel. They do have chemistry, whether or not the actress is downplaying that in her new interview; I wonder if she was trying not to tip her hand. I do think Daenerys's absolutist approach in Meereen may well have consequences. She has a castle, she has her flag over it - now what?

I was a little disappointed to realize Littlefinger believes he has the measure of the Tyrells ("my new friends are predictable"), and that he indeed might - I think working with him is beneath them, and to what end? Someone as smart as Olenna must know that Littlefinger is, according to Varys's approximation anyway (and Varys is rarely wrong), a terrorist - to him the climb is all there is. That's not a steady pair of hands for the realm; even if he claims he will be hands-off with them or a King Tommen, who's to believe him? Not me. I just don't want to see people like Olenna and Margaery go down to an operator like him. I think Olenna in particular is too smart for that. I did laugh at her quip about the garden strolls getting old. And I liked Littlefinger testing Sansa's mettle for court intrigue. He clearly intends her to be his mistress on the side from Lysa Arryn - I hope Brienne guts him like a fish, but I'm not holding my breath. We'll see what happens, I just would hate to see Littlefinger get the best of my favorite House.

Oh, and I forgot to add, yes, I understand they made changes to the books tonight - they've made them before, this is not new. Doesn't bother me, I just watch the show! Welcome to my world, bitches! We're all on a crazy train!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MLp7YNTznE

Edited April 28, 2014 by Vee

[Vee]

...but in all seriousness, here's this from Vanity Fair on the changes.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

I forgot to say how excited I am that we'll be going back to The Eyrie. It was one of the best parts of season 1 for me, and truly a fascinating place.

[Vee]

Kate Dickie is back next week, lookin' crazy as ever. I hope that crazy kid of hers is back too. I love Kate Dickie.

Season 4 will be at the midway point next week, and unless I'm very wrong both the Stark girls and two of the Stark boys are on their way to unexpected reunions, at the Eyrie and Craster's Keep. We'll see if either of them make it. I have a sinking feeling Jon may just miss Bran, again.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

Some fan art things, with the characters dressed in '80s and '90s clothes. My favorites are Ramsey, Bran, and Bronn. (Bran's gave me a good laugh)

http://society6.com/artist/Moshikun

[quartermainefan]

I thought it was a great episode. I was leaning into the TV when the baby came on because you just knew something interesting was going to happen to him and sure enough it did. The white walkers have some sort of governmental body and mystical powers to create new walkers, and that's a new spin on zombies. I was so happy Bran got to see Jon's wolf. I want some kind of Stark reunion--even if it is just the wolves saving each other.

Joffrey's murder: The mode of murder makes sense but doesn't make sense. If they needed to smuggle poison into Kings Landing, surely there was a more efficient method than this Rube Goldberg scheme. What if Sansa decided to just go with a different look that day? Also, the goblet was in fuil view of everyone and there is just no realistic way this could have happened mere inches away from Joffrey himself, his guards and everyone. It's fiction though, so I will go with it.

Jaime: He is back to being the hero this week and by the writing it seems clear the director of last week didn't think there was any sort of rape going in because there was nothing in this week's script that referenced it. It never happened. What I loved was the scene where Brienne and Podrick set off on their Sansa quest. It was reminiscent of the Fellowship Of The Ring setting off on their quest. Brienne and Podrick are two people I hope the show stays with. One of my favorite scenes of the series and I liked their looks like they are heartbroken at the thought of never seeing each other again.

Edited April 28, 2014 by quartermainefan

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

LOL Vee I totally get what you're coming from and I'm about to reach that stage. I try to tell myself that its not the books at all and at this stage I should just watch it without any expectations but its just really frustrating cuz I know for the most part whats coming up and I know these characters and these storylines so to see them fail so bad on screen is kinda painful...

Regarding the Vanity Fair article I didn't really think of it as a monumental shift. I just thought it was an absolute trainwreck. I rolled my eyes at several moments (the Jaime/Cersei scene for one...is THAT we're supposed to deal with the aftermath of a rape scene? The victim acts like nothing happened and she's fine with it?). I rolled my eyes at the entire Bran sequence. Its was just laughably bad IMO. I didn't the point aside from trying to "juice up the blood/gore/excitement" factor for the casual viewer who claims to be bored with Bran's story.

Regarding the White Walkers even in the books they are very vague and to this day we really don't know much about them. I think the show is okay in how they make them very scary but all that Fortress of whatever stuff was confusing to me as a reader cuz it doesn't mean anything. Aside from the graphics what was the point? To show that they turn the babies into White Walkers themselves? I had already assumed they either did that or killed them....

[DRW50]

Apparently the Jaime/Cersei stuff was supposed to be implied in their scene in this episode.

(the poor writer of this episode - he seems to be very fond of Jaime/Brienne OTP; I can imagine him being like, "thanks a [!@#$%^&*] lot," to D&D and Alex Graves...in his head, anyway).

http://www.hbo.com/#/game-of-thrones/episodes/4/34-oathkeeper/interview/bryan-cogman-s4.html