They could not have hired anyone dykier than Laura Allen for that Bianca/Laura tease. Good Lord. I loved that storyline and then it fell apart so Laura could humiliate herself for Leo.

I think they brought JFP is because OLTL had been sleeping for almost two years and they wanted results, but they didn't seem to care that she basically gutted the show.

97 Was when I first started talking soaps online (one of the old Usenet groups I think) I remember cuz one of the first things I found out was my beloved The City had been canceled, but then I was thrilled about Daytime to Remember (this was before any video sites online--long before--and I seriously never thought I'd ever get a chance to see classic soap clips, let alone full episodes before). But yeah I remember TONS of gossip about JFP going to AMC and I had no diea who she was but just from the way people talked I dreaded that she would. LOL She did go to OLTL and gut it but, OLTL really was in an awful state--the last half of the 90s (with some good moments under the Labines) were really just a complete wash for OLTL, IMHO. In fact by the time McTavish joined OLTL and basically followed JFP's orders the show at least finally had momentum (it was much worse under JFp and Pam Long, and then really just a bizarre wash whern JFP was HW as well)

They could not have hired anyone dykier than Laura Allen for that Bianca/Laura tease. Good Lord. I loved that storyline and then it fell apart so Laura could humiliate herself for Leo.

Aww gotta love Passanante's classic "Laure is suddenly, out of NOWHERE, a complete man obsessed psycho bitch now that she has Gillian's heart" story!

Edited December 11, 200916 yr by EricMontreal22

Like I said, don't get me started.

Frankly, I have loathed everything said and/or written about Victor Lord from his initial death onward. EVERYTHING. He was a sexist, elitist and domineering tycoon who made life hell for his wife and two daughters. Done. Nothing more needs to be said. So please, OLTL, save the underground cities, secret lairs, ties with the Nazi party, and fetishes for readheads and babies for other storylines. Thank you.

HAHA I will agree with (and love) your last two sentences, but really the DID was the only way to responsibly go IMHO AND made great soap. By then it was known that DID simply didn't happen without serously traumatic, almost always sexual abuse and (not to make this too heavy) I know from real life with someone close to me that such instances really can be nearly completely blocked out and even invisible to people and only be revealed decades later. That kinda story is IDEAL to tell on a soap--so why not?

Edited December 11, 200916 yr by EricMontreal22

It was quite odd because I remember some people enjoyed the Bianca/Leo friendship so much and talked about how if she would be with any man, it would be him, and imagine Greenlee's fury, and so on. Then a variation of that happened, but with Laura.

Yes. However, Erica, as designed, or as what she evolved into over the years, was never the kind of character who was supposed to have the sort of dramatically heavy material that traditional, "long-suffering" heroines usually get (Lucci's Emmy fetish, be damned). Erica, after all, was an anti-heroine. The same way Delia on RYAN'S HOPE was an anti-heroine; the same way Dorian and Tina were anti-heroines on OLTL (and not the ass-clowns these two women eventually became). Whenever you see what they're up to at the moment, all you can do is just laugh, shake your head, and say, oh, Erica/Delia/Dorian/Tina/etc.!

To me, stories such as Erica's drug addiction rang false, because - although the subject matter was timely and well-handled (when not handled by Megan McTavish) - the character as structured could never support the weight of such dark and exhausting material. Frankly, it's like suddenly making Ted Baxter ("The Mary Tyler Moore Show") a family man, only in reverse.

IMO, Bianca comes closer to being the sort of traditional heroine who can support those kinds of stories.

Oh I sooooo disagree. I'm with Carl--to give Erica longetivity they had to delve into this--it's also much more compelling to a modern audience to have an "anti hero" (not sure if Erica really has been one for a long time but I get the term for her) deal with these issues then to have the more traditional soap heroine. It adds a whole other elemenet. (Of course it's too bad that AMC, even before McTavish and of course this is a soap and indeed a storytelling cliche anyway does use the rape story element to absolve these character sin a sense, and often make them more boring afterwards, but I totally get why they use it at the same time).

I also think Agnes alwasy saw Erica with a dark even hopeless quality to her on some level--which is why nothing is EVER fully good enough for her--no man, no job, no success she always needs more to fulfill that problem in her--and I actually like how over the years they've slowly shown and resolved some of this. One reason the alcoholic storyline didn't really work (though I admit I loved the intervention overall)was it was an odd attempt to mix light/fun/camp Erica (she's a showgirl! With a wig! A drunk showgirl in Vegas!) with the serious aspect and, well frankly I dunno if anyone would abeen able to make those two stories and elements gel, but it just didn't work. (I'll admit I was just pissed off that we didn't get to see even ONE ridiculously campy performance by Erica as the showgirl--that would have almost justified it all for me)

It was quite odd because I remember some people enjoyed the Bianca/Leo friendship so much and talked about how if she would be with any man, it would be him, and imagine Greenlee's fury, and so on. Then a variation of that happened, but with Laura.

The Bianca/Leo friendship (which I give Agnes credit for ) was great, but I don't quite follow--you mean Laura woulda been to Greenlee and Leo what Greenlee would abeen to Bianca and Leo?

Don't put words in my mouth R

That's never been my style, Eric [equally forced smile].

R when did Agnes ever say Erica's backstory was loosely based on her own? I have NEVER EVER heard her say that in fact she has denied it in some interviews.

She has said plenty of times she used her own history of her parents divorce and her father leaving and the subsequent feelings of abandonment as part of her creation of Erica. What she's denied is that ERICA KANE is based on AGNES ECKHARDT and that they are one and the same. But the back story is the same. She's never painted her father as this evil, mean, loveless man who just up and left, but she does make mention of how his leaving had an effect on her. That's where I was going with my comment. That I don't think it was ever Agnes' intention to have Eric turn into this vile pimp who sold his 14 year old into sex slavery.

Again... that's another McTavish staple. On General Hospital, she had Edward Quatermaine sell off Skye as a baby as well. Taking the patriarch and demonizing him. If you remember back during the Purgatory stint of 2003-2007, there were quite a few "the sins of the father are visited upon the son" references. Chandlers, Cambias and even, apparently Eric Kane became a disgusting father.

Edited December 11, 200916 yr by R Sinclair

The Bianca/Leo friendship (which I give Agnes credit for ) was great, but I don't quite follow--you mean Laura woulda been to Greenlee and Leo what Greenlee would abeen to Bianca and Leo?

I meant that some of the fans who weren't invested in Bianca as a lesbian liked her with Leo and hoped they could become more than friends. Part of that was also because of the Greenlee/Bianca feud. It wasn't intentional but I think the show ended up transferring some of that into the Laura/Greenlee/Leo story.

I felt it was the most intense and exciting OLTL had been, quite frankly, since the peak of the Paul Rauch/Peggy O'Shea era. I, for one, never cared for the so-called "golden age" of Gottlieb/Malone/Griffith. I felt that show was the work of people who piggybacked their own stories and characters onto OLTL's canvas in the name of "reclaiming its roots", and to hell with those who thought otherwise.

I guess this is where we totally disagree. I respect what you mean, but I LOVED the G/M/G era and I thought Pam Long's era was perhaps the least watchable OLTL has been the past decade, outside of the worse of Higley (ok I actually tuned out huge periods of Higley) and some of JFP's solo era. And that says a lot (I think a good half of th epast 14 years of OLTL have been a complete mess) I really wouldn't want her even CLOSE to AMC

Good thing McTavish is no longer referred to as The Writer!

That's never been my style, Eric [equally forced smile].

She has said plenty of times she used her own history of her parents divorce and her father leaving and the subsequent feelings of abandonment as part of her creation of Erica. What she's denied is that ERICA KANE is based on AGNES ECKHARDT and that they are one and the same. But the back story is the same. She's never painted her father as this evil, mean, loveless man who just up and left, but she does make mention of how his leaving had an effect on her. That's where I was going with my comment. That I don't think it was ever Agnes' intention to have Eric turn into this vile pimp who sold his 14 year old into sex slavery.

Again... that's another McTavish staple. On General Hospital, she had Edward Quatermaine sell off Skye as a baby as well. Taking the patriarch and demonizing him. If you remember back during the Purgatory stint of 2003-2007, there were quite a few "the sins of the father are visited upon the son" references. Chandlers, Cambias and even, apparently Eric Kane became a disgusting father.

Isn't that a common soap plot device--some would pretentiously trace it back to Dickens and before--in general? though I agree McTavish took it and ran amuck.

OK I get more what you mean about Agnes and her dad--though of course she relates in All Her Children she had a close relationship with her real father--he never abandoned her (close in terms of proximity, I don't think he was a very emotional man what with his funeral garment industry)

Isn't that a common soap plot device--some would pretentiously trace it back to Dickens and before--in general? though I agree McTavish took it and ran amuck.

OK I get more what you mean about Agnes and her dad--though of course she relates in All Her Children she had a close relationship with her real father--he never abandoned her (close in terms of proximity, I don't think he was a very emotional man what with his funeral garment industry)

I knew you were going to bring up that damn book.

I knew you were going to bring up that damn book.

I was expecting a reference to LaGuardia or Waggett or something.

You're right, Vee, I probably do have unrealistic expectations.

For the record, though, OLTL ceased being appointment viewing for me probably after "Buchanans of the Old West." I'm sorry, but time travel? No.

I know you grew up with soaps, like me (except, sadly, I grew up watching them alone not with parents or grandparents lol) but if you don't mind me asking, how old are you? I thought you were maybe just a bit older than me--but you talk about the day to day storytelling being important and how much you loved early 80s AMC and OLTL so I assume I was wrong...

I was expecting a reference to LaGuardia or Waggett or something.

LaGuardia's a hack (his Monty Clift bio actually just makes up stuff and presents it as fact) though his soap books are great as a time capsule, and Waggett basically just regurgitates facts and things from otherboks--Schemering's where it's at people

LaGuardia's a hack (his Monty Clift bio actually just makes up stuff and presents it as fact) though his soap books are great as a time capsule, and Waggett basically just regurgitates facts and things from otherboks--Schemering's where it's at people

Schemering! How could I forget!!!

I know you grew up with soaps, like me (except, sadly, I grew up watching them alone not with parents or grandparents lol)

Seriously? That's interesting! My mom was TOTALLY my gateway into soaps.