Guiding Light discussion thread

[vetsoapfan]

The definitive truth is probably lost to history by now. During Douglas Marland's time as headwriter, he said in an interview that "the suits" were already pressuring him to dump vets in favor of younger newbies. Certainly the similar destruction of ATWT in the early 1980s adds creedence to his allegation. Many reports indicated that producer Gail Kobe was a negative force, complaining about and axing long-running actors all over the place. She infamously told journalist Mimi Torchin that in her opinion, plot was more important than characters in soaps. Newbie writer Pam Long said in an interview that her first move was to "cut all the dead wood" from the cast. (IMHO, there was no dead wood to eliminate...especially not 2/3 of the established actors, who got their walking papers under the new team of Kobe and Long.)

I think the soap's destruction came primarily from the massive and unnecessary cast purge and the sudden introduction of cretionously stupid sci-fi/supernatural/fantasy storylines that did not belong on the type of reality-based drama TGL  had been for 45 years. So, was the massacre of the show due to mandates from P&G? From the ignorance and arrogance of the new regime who did not know or care about TGL and its history? We'll probably never know for sure, but I'd say there was probably enough blame to go around, and bad decisions were made by everyone involved.

Edited February 24, 2023 by vetsoapfan

[Paul Raven]

Marland was'forced' to drop the characters of Adam, Sara, Barbara and Steve-all actors who had been there for over a decade and were probably on good money.

It was a shame but I can see the reasoning. All 4 had no real connection to the current cast. Adam's son Roger was dead, Barbara's children Holly, Ken and Andy were gone, Sara's son Tim had been written off and Steve's daughter Leslie killed years ago.

So their purpose was limited. The best option would have been recurring if TPTB were committed to using them regularly. 

 

[vetsoapfan]

Marland commented, however, that if he had been allowed to keep those characters, he would have used them. I think TPTB were simply on a gut-the-vets kick in the 1980s. Some veteran players like Barbara Norris could arguably be put on recurring or even written out because of their dwindling ties to the canvas, but P&G allowed Nancy Hughes from ATWT, Bill Marceau from TEON, Pat Randolph from AW, and a host of other beloved, core characters to be gutted, regardless of their continued importance and storyline potential on their series.

The suits never seem to understand how important familar faces and belovecd characters are to the audience, even if their characters are not at the forefront of driving front-buner stories all the time.

[Vee]

It would not have changed much to let most if not all of those characters go recurring tbh. They'd had good long runs on contract but I think some, like Steve, should've remained visible on the canvas for Bert til the end. At least Adam and Barbara returned for visits, Sara McIntyre never got that. Millette Alexander has always been fascinating to me.

[Paul Raven]

I agree Vetsoapfan, but I can see CBS/P&G point of view in that case. Potter/Marland should have fought harder to keep them at least recurring but yes they were ruthless about cutting people.

Around this time

AW- Pat

SFT Bob, Ellie,John

EON Bill

GL the above mentioned

ATWT Nancy Judge Lowell

I guess these actors were drawing big salaries and the investment wasn't worth it to TPTB

Wasn't Helen Wagner offered reduced appearances and less money so she left? That may have been the case with others who felt that was not for them.

Pat at AW is really hard to take as she was much younger than the others and had lots of story to tell.

[vetsoapfan]

I agree; I'd probably have put some of them on recurring, but would have kept Steve Jackson around as Bert's companion until Charita Bauer passed away at least. And he was Frederick's grandfather, so he could have been used from time to time as a "town elder/patriarch figure" even after Bert was gone. I also would have kept Sara around. God knows, there were always enough Springfieldians who could use her help.

Springfield was an alien land by the mid-1980s, with only Jerry ver Dorn being left over from the "good old days."

[Paul Raven]

Yes, the problem with GL was that in addition to dropping those vets they pretty much dropped most of the cast by 85.

Hope, Justin, Elizabeth, Holly, Rita, Jackie, Nola, Tony, Kelly,Morgan, Trish etc

[vetsoapfan]

What I found most vexing about the axing-the-vets agenda, was that so many of the newbies who were hired after the vets were dismissed failed to catch on. Soaps developed a revolving-door policy, with new characters coming and going all the time. I think viewers would have preferred to see their "old friends," even occasionally on recurring, than having irrelevant strangers paraded across the screen. I did not care about Derek Mallory as chief of police, even if he was (allegedly) a "hunk." I wanted to see the wise, capable Bill Marceau in charge.

Helen Wagner did say at the time she was offered the option of going on recurring, but she pointed out that Nancy and Chris were barely being used while they were still on contract, and found it degrading to be told that she may or may not get occasional appearances after being taken off contract. Don McLaughlin did accept the recurring option, and he was treated like a glorified under-fiver until Douglas Marland returned to the show and brought Chris and Nancy back.

And Mike and Hillary and Amanda and...the list was endless, LOL.

Soaps 101 for clueless PTB: don't made sudden, sweeping, unnecessary changes to a show that is already working quite well.

[Paul Raven]

Comings and goings have always been apart of soaps and some of those actors eg Lenore Kasdorf chose to leave.

But TPTB need to step back and look at the overall canvas and be very careful to maintain that continuity.

I'm sure alot of headwriters want to introduce their own characters but everyone needs to be mindful of maintaining a through line.

Now maybe Pam Long wasn't that excited by Hope but should have been cognisent of her importance to the canvas. Perhaps use some of her creativity to re-imagine Hope and write that for her.Maybe Elvera would have risen to the challenge and Hope continue on the show.

Or say in the case of Rita or Elizabeth, bring them back at some point to interact with the new characters and give them a new energy. some of those actors may have been happy to come back.

Doug Marland was much more gradual in in introducing new characters.

 

[Vee]

As fascinating as I find the Phillip saga with the Spauldings/Marlers from the Dobson years onward in the eps available online, and as entranced as I am by the ethereal Lezlie Dalton and the great Cindy Pickett, I think it had probably reached a natural endpoint for several of those characters at least by the time 1981 or so rolled around. The Spauldings first made their presence known in late '77. Lezlie Dalton had some incredible farewell scenes with the recast Jackie (who while no Pickett does excellent work with Dalton) and Phillip at Christmas in '80 where she says goodbye - and then allegedly lingers on a bit in 1981, somehow? Anyway, I don't think the show should've cut Elizabeth, Justin and Jackie entirely out of existence as they did a few years later right after GA arrived and the secret came out with the young adult Phillip. That was story malpractice for rich characters and fascinating actors. But I do think Elizabeth, Jackie and Justin probably had reached a winding-down point for the frontburner as well after such heavy, intense story.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Vee

[vetsoapfan]

Right. Of course when actors pass away IRL, or choose to leave a show of their own accord, TPTB have to make adjustments, and changes are unavoidable. Introducing new characters into the mix is also essential as shows grow, thrive and evolve. It's just too jarring and off-putting, however, when a show decides to axe, say, 14 characters in quick succession and suddenly introduce a gaggle of 12 newbies to replace them. The audience is wont to revolt and reject the new characters in cases like that. We need to be introduced to new people slowly and judiciously, and get to know and like them before they take over the entire proceedings.

[Paul Raven]

The thing with the early Pam Long /Gail Kobe era was that the new characters and stories were fresh, interesting and well written.

Introduced in 83

Mindy

Annabelle

Warren

Lillian

Billy

Claire

Bradley

Beth

Reva

Jim

But in the following years only a few survived and there were more new characters, so as stated the show was unrecognizable, with too many disparate characters from different regimes.

[Vee]

I've really loved Harley Jane Kozak, both in movies and in her soap roles I've seen. I would've liked to see psychic Annabelle appear again maybe for an anniversary to give hints at future story, like the psychic did on Loving years later. Her love interest (Tony?) is intolerable though.

[DRW50]

I think Cindy Pickett gave so much inner life to Jackie that no one else could entirely reach. I can see why GL cut their losses with Carrie Mowery, but there was no reason why Jackie couldn't have returned in later years (we know why she, along with Hope and Elizabeth, did not, of course).

Tom O'Rourke was a good actor and a very good looking and charismatic man. I think he could have easily stayed on through the mid-late '80s at least. I have a feeling this exit, similar to Don Stewart's, was down to backstage problems, and similar to Lemay and Rauch's folly in dealing with people they found tiresome, those at P&G, Kobe, etc. figured who needs 'em. 

I also wonder if these exits were just to drive home that Philip was a Spaulding, which may have made sense for a time, but robbed him of much of his inner conflict (with just Ross left to remind him of his other side).

Edited February 24, 2023 by DRW50

[Vee]

After watching a fair amount of summer '84 and seeing a ton of Beth/Lujack (and hearing many, many strange muzak version of the Footloose classic "Almost Paradise") I looked up the Locher Room interview with Vincent Irizarry and Judi Evans. Irizarry tells an anecdote about how the day he got hired on the show, he was still working at Joe Allen's restaurant and was introduced to a customer, an actress who had been on GL for years but was only recently fired and was none too happy to meet him. I wonder who it was.