Guiding Light discussion thread

[juniorz1]

I'm a HUGE Marcy Walker fan (clearly! ) and never have been a big GL fan, save for Leonard Stabb's run as Hart. Can someone tell me why she didn't click on the show? Was it the writing, the character, Walker's performance? I tuned in some back then just for her but couldn't get into it because they kept pairing her with men who were, IMO, too old for her. I didn't care for her with Robert Newman's Josh (except for my own delicious revenge factor since we got stuck with Zimmer at SB in an almost-pairing with A Martinez) and I HATED her with Alan.

[DRW50]

Marcy has put some blame on the writing changes -- Nancy Curlee, who had come up with the Tangie character and her backstory, left the show several months after Tangie arrived.

The show was very uneven at this time and not that great. There had been a lot of new faces in the last few years and some important longtime characters had been written out or were being recast. I don't have a lot of strong memories of that time because I was tired of the show and I was busy, but I remember that I was happy to see her, because I remembered her as Eden, but I remember feeling that she was very low-energy, and her backstory confused me. When the pairing with Josh failed they seemed to start flailing around, and still didn't know what to do with her. I never understood the idea of putting her in a triangle with Alan and Alan-Michael. Nothing against Ron Raines, but he was one of the most asexual leading men ever on GL, and it was obvious the show still really wanted to do Alan-Michael/Lucy and were just biding their time. At the time some fans wrote in to SOD asking why the show couldn't pair Tangie with Det. Cutter, whom she'd dated casually, and JFP gave one of those "anything can happen" type of answers, I think. My guess is they never had any plans to go there because he wasn't a "big" character. They did at least share an easy chemistry.

The last 4-5 months Marcy was on the show I thought she'd finally found a groove, working at the paper with Nick, Holly, and Fletcher, but by then Marcy was, understandably, leaving.

I remember the contrast of how vibrant and alive she was at AMC when she first returned because she never got to be like that at GL.

[DRW50]

From the 7/26/90 SOD. News America Publishing

Edited November 22, 2010 by CarlD2

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Thanks for posting that Carl!

That was a really unpleasant experience to talk about. Maureen has always seemed like such a classy woman, and you can sense that in her acting as well. Holly could be a neurotic and self-centered mess sometimes, but Maureen bought so much humanity and sympathy to the role that you couldn't help but love her. How and why she's never won an Emmy is beyond me.

[DRW50]

Yeah it must have taken courage to talk about what happened to her. Then to think she was in a hotel room after that, watching a soap.

I was surprised when someone said that she basically went off and ran a bar somewhere after her GL run ended in 2005, but after reading this it makes sense. She likes to have some privacy.

It was such a good interview, she is obviously so intelligent and so casually witty and amusing and incisive. I can't believe more soaps have not considered bringing her on.

It's surprising sometimes to remember how sexy and in control she seemed when she was back on GL compared to her first GL run, or her work on Ryan's Hope. I love the comment she makes about how she used to only get letters from little old ladies, but now she gets it from young men, and she prefers the young men.

[Sedrick]

I vividly remember the details surrounding Walker's casting, which ultimately resulted in several backstage developments across the whole soap scene that rippled throughout the industry and remain present that to this very day.

Heading into fall of 1993, the soap community was abuzz with excitement and anticipation on all three networks...the Daytime Emmys had just moved their ceremony to prime-time and the telecast was achieving excellent ratings. There was growing momentum of competition among the daytime depts. at all three networks, and FOX at this time was making noise about starting their own daytime lineup with soaps (what we didn't know was what was really behind FOX's daytime plans: they were secretly plotting their historic hijacking of the NFL's NFC football contract from CBS, which resulted in dozens of major CBS affiliates switching their affiliation to the fledgling FOX, and those stations would be expecting a strong daytime lineup of network-provided programming).

Audience levels, although slipping, were still good and in some cases inching upwards...the daytime leader crown was up for grabs, and the network heads of daytime had figured the neck-to neck race amongst them would be ultimately by the 3-way soap showdown in the 3pm EST/2PM CST , with NBC's plan to see SANTA BARBARA finally succeed in the ratings by settling the years-old series of lawsuits with the Dobsons and bringing them back to the show having failed and NBC dropping out of the 3PM race with the January cancellation of SB, and soon the fight would into all-out warfare in November of 1993.

GUIDING LIGHT had been on a creative upswing for couple of years, and Farren Phelps had put together what at the time was being heralded in the press as the soap to possibly be the show to set the standard for excellence in the 90's. The show had surprised many when it suddenly shot up from the middle of the ratings pack to the #3 spot briefly as GH's numbers collasped at the time. But there was trouble ahead: the departures of the headwriting trio that had pulled GUIDING LIGHT together and made it a contender, key cast departures, the biggest being the totally unexpected Beverly McKinsey scandal, and the resulting stalling of storyline momentum.

Then ABC pulled a shocker that they thought would blow GL out off the water...at the 1993 Daytime Emmys, the network announced the news that the iconic Luke & Laura would be returning to GH in November! CBS had placed great faith in Farren Phelps and demanded that she show her true worth by coming up with an answer to keep GL competitive against GH...and Farren Phelps responded by wooing her former superstar from her days as EP at SB: Marcy Walker. Walker would debut the same week that Luke & Laura returned to GH, and Farren Phelps plan was to pair Walker with Robert Newman's Josh and create GL's own news "instant" supercouple to knock GH out of the water. The event was heavily publicized and hyped in the media, the industry on the edge of their seats in anticipation of what was billed as an epic showdown.

However, the GL plan was an instant flop. First was endless ridicule in the soap press over the name "Tangie" (Marelna De Lacroix hilariously declared "I don't care what Jill Farren Phelps says: I still think we're talking citrus here!") before Walker even debuted. Then there was the utter lack of chemistry between Walker and Newman. Then there was the fact that the storyline, along with the general writing of the entire show at the time, was unimaginative, confusing, and dull.

The "showdown" was a knockout from the first week. L&L not only returned to GH with their smae spark and energy, but also with Claire Labine and her children, who took over that show's writing and quickly took the prize as critical darling of daytime, a title that GL had been holding.

The fallout was far-reaching. The inability of Farren Phelps to come up with an answer to how to compete with GH damaged her standing with CBS, who demanded that Proctor & Gamble replace her. The result was the great P&G producer switch which saw all three P&G soaps new EPs, a move that many say was the first and or most fatal mistake by the company that ended up destroying all three shows permanently.

The blame game for the faltering of GL and the failure of the show to compete with GH got personal and ugly. Initially many pointed at Walker, with some dismissing her star power and questioning whether or not she really was among the industry's top performers. Following her departure from GL and her triumphant return to ALL MY CHILDREN, Walker revealed in several interviews her take on the situation. Most vividly, Walker said that certain people had advanced behind the scenes over the years by using their relationships with other people.."you have people who are average or good line producers, and that's (as far as they should go)..at GL, someone had snagged a high ranking position by promising the network that they could bring it the popular performers this person had once worked with, such as myself. " Walker said that she felt used and that things that had been promised to her had not been delivered, the main thing being good writing. Walker never mentioned Farren Walker specifically by name, but those who know anything at all about daytime knew who the "average line producer" was...Subsequently, when Phelps hired as a consultant at ABC and rumors circulated that she might take over as EP at AMC, rumors ran rampant that Walker was instrumental in using her clout to make sure Phelps stayed away from the show, instead going to ONE LIFE TO LIVE.

[saynotoursoap]

Your comment made me chuckle. Robert Newman and Ron Raines (Josh Lewis & Alan Spaulding) are both younger than A Martinez. In fact, Newman is a decade younger than Martinez.

Sedrick offered a wonderfully detailed explanation of why Walker was not successful on GL, but my feeling is simply that stunt casting generally does not work. Walker failed for the same reason Genie Francis tanked on Days of our Lives. They were both hired for their fanbase and name recognition, without any consideration regarding the creation of an interesting, viable character.

[Khan]

ICAM. AMC hired Francis, too, to play Ceara because of her name and status w/in the industry - although, to Agnes Nixon's credit, they gave her great material to play while she was there.

Another actress who was hired more for "name recognition" than for anything else was Denise Alexander, who was lured to GH (from DAYS) and to ANOTHER WORLD because her name held a certain cache with longtime soap fans. The difference, though, is that Douglas Marland eventually figured out what to do w/ her Lesley on GH. AW...? Not so much.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Khan

[DRW50]

I never knew that Luke and Laura and Tangie were in competition. I know Marcy was a very popular star but it seems odd to me that they would hype her that way against people who had such history with GH, and who had been eagerly awaited for years (even if after a few years GH clearly had huge issues with, and contempt for, Genie Francis/Laura).

I actually think, as great as Marcy is, that Genie Francis would have been a better fit for GL.

I think GL made a big mistake by not spending more time regrouping in 1993, when the show had gone through so many changes. To focus so much time on characters like Buzz was a mistake. I'm not going to claim Justin Deas was some hindrance to GL but for me Buzz became emblematic of everything which was driving me away from the show at that time. The show had very little leg to stand on. It shows again the perils of killing off Maureen and destroying the Bauer family unit, because the Coopers weren't the same without Harley (and the diminishing of Nadine as Buzz's lovestruck flunky), the Spauldings had already been decimated with Beverlee's departure and then thanks to the dreadful writing and casting for Mindy, Jordan Clarke's personal problems and Larry Gates' illness, it wouldn't be that long before the Lewises were very, very badly diminished. GL went from being a show which had many rich and warm and fascinating families to a show which became very half-hearted and empty.

Edited October 23, 2010 by CarlD2

[teplin]

Interesting post, Sedrick. I didn't know Walker had been so disparaging of Phelps (albeit obliquely). It's quite surprising, given how most actors who've worked under sing her praises (A Martinez, as just one example). I quite liked Walker as Tangie, though her teaming with Newman didn't work. Of course, I also liked Genie Francis on DAYS, so what do I know?

[DRW50]

From the July 16, 1985 Digest. Network Publishing Co

Edited November 22, 2010 by CarlD2

[DRW50]

From the April 1, 1980 Digest. SOD Publishing Inc

Edited November 22, 2010 by CarlD2

[SFK]

Chris Bernau, you "handsome bachelor" you. I wonder what Susan Hufford said when she saw that pic of her with Michael. How... odd this time in the soap world was. It's so curious how they comment on the actors' personal lives in a way they no longer do yet there is still that studio system respect for image/reputation, all the while, somene like MZ can say that he's quitting and that gets printed and he probably wasn't even reprimanded for it. Compared to today, it's all oddly casual yet still controlled, I don't know if I'm making ANY sense ...

[DRW50]

I know what you mean. The magazines at this time try to tell us how open the actors are and go into these great details, yet you can tell it's also manufactured, and there's a lot we don't know. I guess this is better than the sneery and faux-cynicism later on.

These were transition years for GL. I'd love to see more of this era. I also wish I knew once and for all about Cindy Pickett, because I get very confused about that. Some SODs from earlier in 1980 call her ex-Jackie and basically say she left to be in that Roger Vadim movie (one of them has screencaps of it...Cindy seems to be stalked by an evil lifesize Muppet with a human face). Yet here it says she is leaving, which means she is still on the show. And she had a big teary goodbye to Phillip in early 1980, which is the type of scene that you would expect if an actress was leaving for good, yet she was back in episodes, living and working in Springfield, in spring/summer 1980.

I had to look several times to make sure Lenore Kasdorf wasn't married to Matthew Cowles.

[SFK]

"The magazines at this time try to tell us how open the actors are and go into these great details, yet you can tell it's also manufactured, and there's a lot we don't know." Exactly. Thank you.

That's funny you should say that about Matthew Cowles because at first glance I thought that was who was with Cindy Pickett.