46 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Does someone remember...what was the deal? Wasn't Alan dating a sister of Jane Marie's who drowned? Or was there just one Stafford girl who Alan (or Brandon) got pregnant?

When Alan was in college he was engaged to a girl named Janice Stafford. She had a younger sister named Jane Marie.

Alan would spend weekends at the Staffords' lake house. One time he had an argument with Janice. He turned to Jane Marie, who had a crush on him, for sympathy. They ended up having sex.

While Alan and Janice were alone on a boat, she told him she knew he had seduced her sister. She dove off the boat to get away from him. She hit her head on something and drowned. 

The family blamed Alan for Janice's death, but he was never charged for anything. When Jane Marie turned out to be pregnant, Brandon hustled the family off to Canada. When Amanda was born, he gave her to Lucille, who was his lover at the time.

Jane Marie changed her name to Jennifer and married some loser named Walter, who was Morgan's father. When they came to SF for her to take the job with Lucille, Mike accidentally ran his car into their car. Walter was killed.

Ross started digging around Alan's past with the Staffords. He tracked down Jennifer's father and brother Chet. Chet turned out to be a psycho, but oddly he terrorized Evie, not Alan, even though he had a monomaniacal obsession with Alan's role in the downfall of his family. He thought Evie was a threat to Amanda's marriage. He ended up in the booby hatch or jail, I don't remember which.

That is sad, sad story of the Stafford family. 

Edited November 9Nov 9 by DeeVee

9 hours ago, DeeVee said:

When Alan was in college he was engaged to a girl named Janice Stafford. She had a younger sister named Jane Marie.

Alan would spend weekends at the Staffords' lake house. One time he had an argument with Janice. He turned to Jane Marie, who had a crush on him, for sympathy. They ended up having sex.

While Alan and Janice were alone on a boat, she told him she knew he had seduced her sister. She dove off the boat to get away from him. She hit her head on something and drowned. 

The family blamed Alan for Janice's death, but he was never charged for anything. When Jane Marie turned out to be pregnant, Brandon hustled the family off to Canada. When Amanda was born, he gave her to Lucille, who was his lover at the time.

Jane Marie changed her name to Jennifer and married some loser named Walter, who was Morgan's father. When they came to SF for her to take the job with Lucille, Mike accidentally ran his car into their car. Walter was killed.

Ross started digging around Alan's past with the Staffords. He tracked down Jennifer's father and brother Chet. Chet turned out to be a psycho, but oddly he terrorized Evie, not Alan, even though he had a monomaniacal obsession with Alan's role in the downfall of his family. He thought Evie was a threat to Amanda's marriage. He ended up in the booby hatch or jail, I don't remember which.

That is sad, sad story of the Stafford family. 

Thanks! I just reread the SOD recaps (damn I wish more of early '81 would turn up) and Chet was killed by the police after luring Eve to Ben's cabin.

He was stalking Evie because Amanda was obsessively blaming Eve for everything that went wrong in her marriage.

Alan doesn't recognize Jennifer as Jane Marie until the retrial, which had to be 6 to 9 months after she turned up in town. So either she was good at avoiding him, or they didn't really cross that much.

11 hours ago, DeeVee said:

That is sad, sad story of the Stafford family. 

If only the writers looked into this history before making Amanda Bradon's daughter....how would Jane Marie have had sex with Brandon?

On 11/8/2025 at 12:27 AM, DRW50 said:

It's a very odd way of doing so - "your old love has become a threat" is unnerving.

Thinking about it, it's odd they set it up that way, but immediately threw Kyle at Reva.

And poor Billy, Van, Trish and Mindy--they look like their posing for mug shots. I don't think I'd seen that pic before. I know I've seen a similar pic of Billy and Van, but not with Trish and Mindy that I recall.

2 hours ago, P.J. said:

Chet was killed by the police after luring Eve to Ben's cabin.

LOL, I must have blocked that out. I thought it was kind of stupid. It implied Chet would have been the "funny uncle" if Amanda had grown up around the Staffords. Just a really weird obsession. 😬

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

If only the writers looked into this history before making Amanda Bradon's daughter....how would Jane Marie have had sex with Brandon?

Right? It's like the backstory wasn't icky enough--let's UP the ick factor!

If you're going to do that, at least bring back Jennifer for some kind of an explanation. If Court wasn't available, recast the role briefly.

Or make this some kind of BS Roger cooked up to f!ck with the Spauldings. Maybe even with Jennifer's compliance. She really hated Amanda's guts after the Mark thing, and who can blame her? The woman did not have one man treat her right her entire life, I could believe she'd be THAT resentful, even long after it happened.

It's one of those cases where the writers went "HEY, what if...?" and didn't think through everything that would lead to.

The ONE thing about this that makes the backstory make more sense is Brandon giving Amanda to Lucille. I wouldn't give Lucille a guppy to raise, but if he was in love with her and she wanted his child, then, O.K., maybe that makes sense.

@DeeVee @P.J. @Mitch64 Thank you as that whole story is incredibly convoluted to me. And was any of it worth the time spent? Geraldine Court was a beautiful, elegant, intelligent actress, but Jennifer was so dull. Amanda was also made very dull under Marland. And Morgan was too after the recast. Chet seemed to be the energy vampire of the family. 

Wasn't there a grandfather on the show too?

This does help explain why Alan and Jennifer seemed to have no real feelings for each other in present day. I suppose that is more realistic, but it also feels like a lost opportunity, especially when you remember how much material the show had gotten out of Alan and the women around him under the Dobsons. 

I've said this before, but I still think the story should have been Ben and Jennifer falling in love, rather than Mark, if Stephen Yates had been willing to stay. 

Chet, in the few times I've seen him, was more flaming than JFP's January 1995 stunt. Given the dreariness around him they should have just gone hogwild - have him make a pass at Ben, have him tell Amanda that Ben was much hotter than Mark and she has no taste. Hell, reveal that he slept with Mark too, because it's not as if Mark seemed to have any ethics anyway, until they very belatedly tried to make viewers feel sorry for him.

At least Chet helps explain where Toby's Amanda came from. I could see him flying into Springfield, shouting, "GET YOUR ROOTS DONE!!!" to Marj's Alex, who promptly gasps and has Hawk throw him off the property.

Edited November 9Nov 9 by DRW50

14 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Was Alan  married to Hope at the time?  If so, it's possible that he and Hilary had interacted off screen.

Yes, in fact, that was when he was "Nice" Alan, the year after he got out of prison. He didn't revert to "A--hat" Alan until after Marland exited the show.

It just struck me as funny because he was always polite but a little bit imperious around hospital staff before that. I suppose they were trying to show how he had "grown" as a human in prison, or whatever.

34 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Wasn't there a grandfather on the show too?

Yes, he saw Jennifer and immediately had a heart attack. He ended up in Cedars as Justin's patient. So he was incapacitated and couldn't reveal Jennifer's real identity.

A side story here was Ross trying to use Alan's history with the Staffords against him, and ending up regretting it. I think this was when he was starting to go with Evie, who I don't think he was really romantic about, but she had an influence on him that made him question some of things he was doing. Maybe another reason why Evie got pulled into the Chet sh!t storm.

34 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

This does help explain why Alan and Jennifer seemed to have no real feelings for each other in present day. I suppose that is more realistic, but it also feels like a lost opportunity, especially when you remember how much material the show had gotten out of Alan and the women around him under the Dobsons. 

Agree, agree, agree!

YES, in real life, a brief encounter like that would not likely end up becoming the love of your life. But in soap terms, this was a totally wasted opportunity. The one thing Alan was missing in his backstory was a lost love, a real one (because, apparently, Janice drowning was kind of a relief to him).

I'm sure if the Dobsons had remained on the show, Amanda's mother would have been that lost love. That would have impacted his marriage to Hope and his affair with Rita. I'm thinking that would have been SUPER-juicy.

Instead of that, we had cold politeness between Alan and Jennifer, even though they tried to make the case that he never forgot his encounter with Jane Marie and that it was very important to him. (Hey, I don't believe it either, I didn't write it, LOL).

Which is a little bit weird when you consider that in the beginning they were setting up a Mike/Jennifer romance. Jennifer and Alan still being nostalgic for the past could of been used to cause conflict in a Mike/Jennifer relationship. But for some reason they sunk all that after the Amanda paternity reveal. 

Edited November 9Nov 9 by DeeVee

33 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

@DeeVee @P.J. @Mitch64 Thank you as that whole story is incredibly convoluted to me. And was any of it worth the time spent? Geraldine Court was a beautiful, elegant, intelligent actress, but Jennifer was so dull. Amanda was also made very dull under Marland. And Morgan was too after the recast. Chet seemed to be the energy vampire of the family. 

Wasn't there a grandfather on the show too?

Logan Stafford. He seems to be the one who tips Amanda off that Chet was bitter, and wrote rhymes for his sisters (which must play into the notes Evie was sent.) 

Worth the time spent? eh, I dunno. Marland doesn't even seem to know what to do with Jennifer after the trial. I guess it was nice Amanda had family. But given the way nearly all the characters involved limp out of town, I would say probably not.

I find it ironic all this activity swirled around Evie, who bless her heart, was not the most dynamic character ever in Springfield. 

17 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I find it ironic all this activity swirled around Evie, who bless her heart, was not the most dynamic character ever in Springfield. 

It's crazy she stuck around into 1983.

My theory is they kept her around because they planned to bring Rita back. Once that was totally scuttled, they finally wrote her out.

It sounds like the lady in black that the Dobson's introduced in the last few months of their tenue was going to be someone tied to the Spauldings (probably Amanda's bio mom).   I'm curious who the Dobson's had in mind for that part of the story since I doubt very much insipid Jennifer was who they would have created.... they probably would have had something gothic/creepy without it veering into camp (most of Marland's gothic attempts were campy at best).

In regards to Lucille, since she seemed intent on eliminating any man that got in the way of her control/hold over Amanda so I imagine that either Amanda would have killed Lucille in self-defense to protect herself and/or Ben... or Lucille might have taken her own life and framed Ben for it (figuring if she couldn't kill him, might as well frame him for it) had the Dobson's continued on beyond late 1979.

Another question I had was did Elizabeth learn Phillip was Justin/Jackie's during the Dobson era, or during the Marland era?  I find it hard to believe she would just give up the child that she'd raised for many years to a woman that had lied to her from the start.

Unpopular opinion, but I'm glad Jackie died before Phillip found out he was her son because all of this mess was due to her and I think it was a nice karma that she never got to truly be a mother to him.  She's the true villainess of this piece/story.

Edited November 9Nov 9 by Soaplovers

53 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I find it ironic all this activity swirled around Evie, who bless her heart, was not the most dynamic character ever in Springfield. 

 

32 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

It's crazy she stuck around into 1983.

My theory is they kept her around because they planned to bring Rita back. Once that was totally scuttled, they finally wrote her out.

I think what helped Evie was that Janet Grey was, while not the best actress, very earnest and able to be vulnerable onscreen. You believed in her relationships with other people. She was a good outlet for flawed characters like Rita and Ross. 

I'd guess she is also one of those characters the show just forgot to write out.

I should try to watch more of what's available of Ross becoming greyer due to her. 

Thanks for the info on the father. Logan Stafford is a great soap name. Wasted on non-characters. 

The crazy thing is if you tell the whole Jennifer/Mark/Amanda story to someone who has never seen GL they'd probably say it sounds juicy. Then you just get a big plop onscreen.

Edited November 9Nov 9 by DRW50

8 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Another question I had was did Elizabeth learn Phillip was Justin/Jackie's during the Dobson era, or during the Marland era?  I find it hard to believe she would just give up the child that she'd raised for many years to a woman that had lied to her from the start.

All of the Phillip reveal happened after Marland came on the show. He deliberately accelerated it. I think he just didn't care for the story.

TOTALLY agree that Elizabeth giving up Phillip was completely out of character. Even MORE ridiculous was Alan agreeing to giving Justin and Jackie custody. The guy indirectly caused a murder in order to get custody of Phillip. Not only was it a power thing to Alan, he genuinely loved Phillip. Phillip was probably the only person he really loved. That was consistently shown through the rest of the life of the show.

Marland did this to get rid of Elizabeth/Dalton. Even though he took almost a year to write her out, he didn't seem to care if the reason she left made sense.

He should have just killed her off. Jackie and Justin then could have revealed they were Phillip's parents and fought for custody. 

But, again, Marland didn't care for the story. That would have made it front burner. 

17 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

The crazy thing is if you tell the whole Jennifer/Mark/Amanda story to someone who has never seen GL they'd probably say it sounds juicy. Then you just get a big plop onscreen.

The thing that never made sense was Mark marrying Jennifer in the first place. Amanda was thirsting for him so much she probably would have handed over Spaulding to Mark if he had married her.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

 

I think what helped Evie was that Janet Grey was, while not the best actress, very earnest and able to be vulnerable onscreen. You believed in her relationships with other people. She was a good outlet for flawed characters like Rita and Ross. 

I'd guess she is also one of those characters the show just forgot to write out.

I should try to watch more of what's available of Ross becoming greyer due to her. 

Thanks for the info on the father. Logan Stafford is a great soap name. Wasted on non-characters. 

The crazy thing is if you tell the whole Jennifer/Mark/Amanda story to someone who has never seen GL they'd probably say it sounds juicy. Then you just get a big plop onscreen.

Oh, I do have memories of Evie, who was probably one of the gentlest, truly good people ever on soaps. (for an equivalent, I think of Y&R's Traci and Beth Maitland)  Even mildly criticizing her feels like kicking someone's dog. And while I semi-loath Elizabeth, who has a lot of the same characteristics, it was hard not to like Evie.

I wouldn't doubt they hung on to Evie in case they brought Rita back (either Lenore or as a recast). And if Stephen Yates hadn't left, he and Eve probably would've reunited. Instead, she just kind of limps around town until sometime in '83, and disappeared. 

Who knows...had Marland not gotten Jane Elliot and invented Carrie for Ross, he might've circled back to Eve. I think Ross did have the real-real feels for Eve, but it morphed into feels for Amanda as Evie just faded into the background.

I don't know why Amanda/Mark/Jennifer isn't more juicy. Probably because the bond between Amanda and Jennifer is so new that there's no real investment for the audience in it. And that you know Mark is just slime waiting to ooze over whatever he wants. It doesn't help that his backstory is so needlessly convoluted. 

4 hours ago, P.J. said:

It doesn't help that his backstory is so needlessly convoluted. 

That was a consistent problem with Marland. Everything was SO convoluted. He didn't know how to use the past effectively. 

I had my problems with Long, but she got to the heart of things that happened in the past and used them well for stories in the present. Phillip finding out about his origins is a perfect example. She even effectively used the fact that Jackie was dead.