12 hours ago, DeeVee said:

I remember watching soaps with my mom as far back as the mid-60s. She was a big ATWT fan, but she watched many other shows: DOOL, Love of Life, Another World, and she ADORED Edge of Night. (She ALWAYS figured out the murderer and would spoil it for me--I would be SO mad!) We watched the premiere epsisode of Y&R together.

I remember watching General Hospital when it was little more than a nurse's station set. It had elevator doors that would open and people would occasionally come out. That was it, that was the set. I was a little kid and thought that was hilarious. Of course it was black & white back then.

Dark Shadows was the only show we didn't watch together--that was MY show. 

And of course GL. She got me into it during the mid-70s because she had a crush on Michael Zaslow. 

Mother's shows in the 60s when I became interested were ATWT, AW & DAYS. Since they were half hour that worked. When they went to an hour, we gave up CBS/ATWT & she was an NBC fan ever after that, the whole lineup. I branched out & fell in love with GL & PC & THE CITY & then GH, on my own, later. 

Edited June 16Jun 16 by Contessa Donatella

57 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Okay then, head to head, voice only: Beverlee vs. Maeve?

Maeve. But I know she'd probably lose if it were a poll. I should say, I also love Maureen Garrett's voice.

8 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Maeve. But I know she'd probably lose if it were a poll. I should say, I also love Maureen Garrett's voice.

Oh, I totally love MG's voice!!!! So, I would have to vote 

Beverlee

Maureen Garrett

Maeve

48 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

The changes in Josh seemed to happen not that long after Marland left, but Vanessa did seem to take longer. I don't get the sense Long was hugely invested in Vanessa, as others have mentioned, but she did at least pair her with Billy, which was so important for the show's future and Vanessa's. 

 

These posts from the moms are making me feel less odd about generally always liking Fletcher (maybe until the last few years where he lost all personality beyond sanctimony).

Josh pretty much did. A fact that was probably made easier because he didn't have a lot going on. It's not like manipulating Floyd was some huge arc. Vanessa was the fly in Quint and Nola's ointment, therefore I guess had to earn her redemption. The good thing about the writing back then is that characters could do nasty, but not unredeemable things. Nowadays, the writing takes characters to such extremes, sometimes you can't redeem them. I'm not sure Long really invested in a character other than Reva, but she did better by Vanessa in the '89 return.

5 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I'm not sure Long really invested in a character other than Reva

I would say Alexandra as well, and maybe Beth.

55 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Vanessa is just never best served as some type of camp or boo hiss figure - she can be campy, those moments where she fights with Nola are certainly pure camp, but stuff like pounding on Eve's door in her Jackie O sunglasses weren't putting her in a great long term place.

Vanessa's high-handed snobbery is a thing of beauty. She was only a little campily obsessive over Ross, then that aspect went away after Carrie left.

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

The saddest part is the time they wrote Hope out was when they were giving her material that would have been interesting and propel her into a new story.

It's almost the same thing that happened when they wrote out Maureen. They gave Dolan the best storyline of her tenure in order to write her out, when if they had NOT written her out, it would have given her character a new life and direction.

While the Hope exit storyline was very rushed and poorly motivated in order to get her out (by the end of her contract, I would assume) if it had been properly set up and executed, it could have been really good.

In fact, I would argue that the final story they gave her was probably much closer to what the Dobsons originally planned for Alan and Hope. Watching the final two months they wrote GL again many years later, I get the impression that they were setting up Hope for a fall, that Alan was going to do to her the same as he did to every woman before her.

Of course, this it total speculation, but I think what kind of backs up this opinion is what the Dobsons did with the Barbara/James and Margo/James storylines when they moved over to  ATWT. There are some obvious parallels with the Alan and Hope story. Barbara and James even fall in love on a tropical island. Both women become disillusioned by James and end up much stronger because of it. Barbara changes from sweet ingenue to a formidable woman, and Margo becomes a cop. I think that was their original plan for Hope (not have her become a cop, LOL, just a stronger person).

Back then (please remember I was only 19 years old) I wanted very much for Alan and Hope to be together and be a real romantic couple. I think I was far from the only audience member who felt that way. Marland said he would read viewer mail and he must have picked up on that audience wish, so he decided to treat them as a romantic story.

Both were valid story choices, in my opinion, and I give Marland credit for keeping Alan as Alan (keeping secrets from Hope, cheating on her, etc.) while still writing a love story for them. But he ended up writing them into a corner, so it's not at all surprising subsequent writers decided to break them up. You can see the groundwork for that starting soon after Marland left, even before Kobe and Long took over.

The big mistake was writing Hope out permanently, of course. There was another mention of her in one of the 1986 episodes. It really does seem like they were considering bringing her back, but I guess they eventually decided to bring only Alan Michael back instead.

Edited June 16Jun 16 by DeeVee

5 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

 

Back then (please remember I was only 19 years old) I wanted very much for Alan and Hope to be together and be a real romantic couple. I think I was far from the only audience member who felt that way. Marland said he would read viewer mail and he must have picked up on that audience wish, so he decided to treat them as a romantic story.

You were far from the only one. I was shocked to read a critique of the time, criticizing Alan returning to his wicked ways and busting up Alan and Hope. It seems so alien to me now, because I've watched him obsess over and then discard so many women. 

Making Alan a faithful husband would've been like making John Dixon not a curmudgeonly old crank. Or, y'know...Reva a nun.

12 minutes ago, P.J. said:

You were far from the only one. I was shocked to read a critique of the time, criticizing Alan returning to his wicked ways and busting up Alan and Hope. It seems so alien to me now, because I've watched him obsess over and then discard so many women.

At least the Alan and Hope fans didn't send in death threats. 😂

12 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Making Alan a faithful husband would've been like making John Dixon not a curmudgeonly old crank. Or, y'know...Reva a nun.

They made her Amish for a while, which was close!

The 'love of a good woman can redeem a villian trope' used for Hope/Alan was romantic wish fulfillment but limiting in terms of story.

Alan had to keep his edge and ultimately pay the price by losing Hope, who comes out stronger for it.

But there would always be an attraction and a wish for both of them to go back to that time when they discovered each other.

There was years of story there with Hope finding a new romance and Alan dallying with other women.

Alan Michael as the bond and Mike thwarting possible reconciliations etc. Phillip sorased and seeing Hope as a mother figure,Elizabeth returning and so on.

But instead a bunch of new couples took over, most of whom had no lasting impact.

And the Bauer legacy severely diminished.

 

10 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

The 'love of a good woman can redeem a villian trope' used for Hope/Alan was romantic wish fulfillment but limiting in terms of story.

Yep.

11 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Alan had to keep his edge and ultimately pay the price by losing Hope, who comes out stronger for it.

But there would always be an attraction and a wish for both of them to go back to that time when they discovered each other.

There was years of story there with Hope finding a new romance and Alan dallying with other women.

Alan Michael as the bond and Mike thwarting possible reconciliations etc. Phillip sorased and seeing Hope as a mother figure,Elizabeth returning and so on.

Even as a fan of their romance, I was enough of a veteran soap viewer by then to know happy couples get back-burnered and that the show needed Alan free from certain norms so he could drive story.

What you're describing is very much what I thought needed to be done--they could have been GL's version of Mac and Rachel. Frequently breaking up, finding new loves, but always having a connection. 

11 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

I wish I could contribute to the 80s talk!  Maybe one day   

 

I’m up to November 4, 1996.

Oh wow, on October 8th and 9th we got a few scenes of Vanessa in bed talking to a doctor, not being able to move! However, it sounds like she’s getting special treatments from this doctor. I thought we lost Maeve for a long time, so it was a nice surprise to see her face for a bit.

Bill is having a hard time living at the house, with everything reminding him of his mother. So, he moves to the boarding house and gets incorporated further in the teen/20s set. He’s getting into fights though and having a hard time coping with all the change.

Company got upgraded! And honestly, it looks cheap and the same haha. The whole opening night was random and chaotic:  Roger rigged the chandelier to come down on Bridget (why?), but she escaped from getting hurt thanks to Matt, and the party continues; then Matt gets into a very long, karate knife fight with some random guy in the middle of the dance floor that goes nowhere; Reva shows up alone ready to party and randomly spends most of an episode meeting, dancing and hanging out with J (so random); Rick and Abby almost have their first kiss but he stops it; and a bunch of extras are dancing out of sync to very muted music the entire night, which is very cringe to watch.

Quint is courting Nola again in hopes of getting back together. This is happening very slowly, like one episode every other week on average.

Bridget’s obsession over Hart is so cringe, I wish they gave her something else to do. I also find it cringe they have two different courtships happening between 20-something men and high school girls (Marcus/Dahlia; Zachary/Michelle).

Buzz is walking around town with bombs and threatening to blow things up. I think they think this is funny, but it’s not since it’s real. He stopped the bomb two seconds before he, Reva and the diner blew up, and then he goes to Spaulding Mansion and threatens to blow everyone up, like it’s a funny joke.  Weird.

Ok, October 16 was the last episode where McTavish is credited. October 17th was the start of Annie’s intervention. Which, btw, was SO good. Everyone did a great job, but Watros really was amazing in those scenes. O’Leary stood out as well. Reva had NO business being there though. Nobody should have allowed her to be there considering she’s the trigger for Annie’s addiction. She was also a b!tch to her during it all. And a distraught Annie tells Rick about one of Blake’s baby being his - good reveal to Rick!

Then Annie detoxing at the cabin with Phillip - great scenes there too!  I really like the friendship they have together and Phillip’s support during the whole thing. Watros again was amazing and in particular I enjoyed the direction and camera angles, especially as she’s sobbing outside in Phillip’s arms and again in the shower, fully clothed.

So Alan was A. Spaulding - shocker *yawns*. I’m just glad that’s over now, which I guess the new writers were happy to end too now that McTavish is gone. Same with the 5th Street stuff, seems like they just quickly finished that. Now I’m excited to see what the new bigger storylines are to come…

Oh, Halloween night had some great cliffhangers! Dinah gets trapped in silo rain bin, not knowing that Roger set it up to trap her. It starts to storm and rain is collecting, while she’s screaming out for Peter, who is all alone with Roger now. Bridget/Hart get a flat tire and are now helpless and unable to get back to the farm. Annie/Phillip return home from the detox cabin and walk in on Reva/Josh dancing with the kids cheering them on.  And finally, Blake is alone at the cabin and starts to go into labor as the storm rolls through, while Dr. Margaret tells Ross and Rick that one of the babies isn’t getting enough nutrients and may be in trouble. Rick, now knowing he’s one of the fathers, gets worried but can’t talk to Ross about it, who still thinks he’s the father of both. I can’t wait to see what happens next!

I'm glad you are still writing these mini-reviews. 

At the time there was not a very positive fan response to the Company revamping - it's undone when Paul Rauch takes over as producer. 

I do remember some of the soap magazines at the time praising the revamp episode, likely in part because they were trying to find anything on the show to praise. 

The Buzz part reminds me of what a book once said about a line on Space:1999 which amounted to, "We're sitting on the biggest bomb in the universe." The line was that given the quality of the show, it was never a good idea to put that idea into people's heads. 

I didn't realize they were starting to develop Bill more until Rauch arrived.

7 hours ago, DeeVee said:

At least the Alan and Hope fans didn't send in death threats. 😂

They made her Amish for a while, which was close!

Close but no whipple.

I just watched the episode with the memorial for Beth's faux death, and now I'm SEETHING.

SO much more care and thought put into it than Bert's. They used flashbacks! There was even a RESHOT scene with Bolger so they could show the prom! (Maybe that was shot for a previous episode, but even so!) A big dramatic moment when Jackson walked in uninvited! REAL memories from characters who had REAL dealings with Beth, not people who barely knew her!

(The one idiotic moment--Phillip being notified his book was going to be published. That "book" that was dramatized was so awful it was funny.)

So now Bert's memorial seems like an even bigger misfire. What a huge lack of respect for the lady who anchored the show for decades. 

Edited June 16Jun 16 by DeeVee

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I'm glad you are still writing these mini-reviews. 

At the time there was not a very positive fan response to the Company revamping - it's undone when Paul Rauch takes over as producer. 

I do remember some of the soap magazines at the time praising the revamp episode, likely in part because they were trying to find anything on the show to praise. 

The Buzz part reminds me of what a book once said about a line on Space:1999 which amounted to, "We're sitting on the biggest bomb in the universe." The line was that given the quality of the show, it was never a good idea to put that idea into people's heads. 

I didn't realize they were starting to develop Bill more until Rauch arrived.

I'm glad you're enjoying them!  I'll keep at it  

I wish I had access to the soap mags back in the day. I'd love to read what they wrote about these storylines I'm watching and whether they were praised or panned. I know a lot of '96 was panned, but curious what they actually wrote about them and then what gems they found throughout.

Yep, Bill and Matt have had a rough time together since Vanessa left. Lots of fighting, he moves to the boarding house and gets into fights at school. He's definitely not dealing well with her loss and the related anger.