The implication that Rita saying Roger raped her was done for the sake of his rape trial with Holly is interesting, as that wasn't really the case. Maybe it was if you just watched the show, I don't know as I've never seen the episodes, but the Dobsons wrote it as a rape between Roger and Rita and then wrote the Roger and Holly rape in part because of the show turning what he did to Rita into a seduction.

I did not realize the only reason the Roger and Holly rape material exists is due to the actors saving it. I guess P&G didn't start saving their material until very late in 1979, based on the German DVD release.

41 minutes ago, chrisml said:

 

As @P.J.points out, Zimmer's acting range far surpasses Lucci's, but it still felt that the writers just kept Reva the same mental age for the rest of the series. Long loved the whole damaged Southern belle routine.  Zimmer was still doing the red dress thing although to her credit she was not doing a whole storyline about joining a showgirls troupe the way Lucci did in her late fifties/early sixties (I'm too lazy to do the googling and the math). 

I believe Zimmer is immensely talented but Reva was never a character that I rewatch much if at all. When I go back and watch GL clips, it's rarely any clips related to Reva. I will rewatch Michelle Forbes's storylines and work for example, but if Zimmer is in some of it, I almost always FF.  I just don't care about Reva during these storylines. I'm on Sonni's side even though I know how it turns out. While GL was on, I found the repetitive nature of Reva's storylines annoying even when I didn't watch the show and just read summaries. I think Zimmer deserved better material; I think of her tapes when she won her third Emmy. Stellar work but then it was right back to Josh/Reva. I think of her work on Designing Women, and how she could hit different notes and was so effective. 

ICAM on the writers not really allowing Reva to develop and grow. There was no longer a reason for her to be greedy, but she's still the teen chasing after Josh with the irrational need to lie to "protect" him. I guess the writers were scared of losing what made Reva tick. Which I don't see how they could have, since Kim wouldn't have allowed that.

I skip more Reva-centric stuff too. I've had to watch her scenes with Billy, but I'm solidly on his side.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

The only one that comes close for CBS soaps may be Lucinda Walsh or Sally Spectra, and maybe those grotesque later years of Stephanie Forrester where she kept beating people up and attacking them with canes.

I missed Eileen Fulton's heyday as Lisa, maybe they would've come close. Sally (God bless Darlene Conley) is more of a caricature, but certainly fills the "outrageous/outlandish" vibe. I find Stephanie more mean and vindictive than anything. I agree, Lucinda in her prime probably comes closest.

1 hour ago, chrisml said:

I know this is probably heresy and this isn't the B&B thread, but I think Susan Flannery and Stephanie were highly overrated and that KKL was extremely underrated during the same period.

I think Flannery did some great work, but I always found Stephanie's underlying hypocrisy off-putting. And while I don't think KKL's the world's best actress (I completely understood why she's received so little attention from the academy for her work), I do think that her appeal as Brooke was responsible for a lot of B&B's success.

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

It's been quite some time since I've seen those scenes between Holly and Roger where he "apologizes" for the rape, but IIRC, he also implies he was in love with Holly and part of it was jealousy over Ed. 

He was NEVER in love with Holly. It was always HOLLY who was in love with Roger. She was obsessed with him since she was a teenager. By the time they married, she no longer loved him. She married him because she knew she wasn't going to get back with Ed and thought it would be best for Christina.

He hated Ed, yes, and hated that Holly and Rita loved Ed, and that was part of his motivation for raping both of them. (He raped Rita the night of Ed and Rita's engagement party). But not because he was in love with either of them. He mostly hated Ed because to the world Ed was Christina's father and also he blamed him for Peggy leaving him.

By the time Zaslow returned, it had been a good decade since the rape story and a lot of people who had been involved in it were no longer working on the show. So it's not surprising that history was rewritten. Considering how many shows not only rehabilitated rapists, they turned some of them into heroes, this was not the worst way the story could have gone. And the actors did everything they could to make it credible.

I always thought Mindy had the potential to be the show's Erica. The spoiled girl who did bad things but was still likable.

Clearly, you are too young to remember the early days of Katherine Chancellor. 😄

LOL...I do have the vaguest of memories of Katherine driving her and Phillip Sr to his death. But I don't recall Katherine being as over-the-top as Reva. Surprisingly, I don't even think Brenda Dickinson's Jill was---although lord knows Brenda probably is a real-life Reva.

I have read the recaps of earlier Roger, and it surprised me that he doesn't love Holly. He had an affair with Hillary (SHOCK, I tell you, SHOCK when I read that one) while married to her. 

Thanks to the cast turnover, other than Jerry and Maureen Garrett, there wasn't anyone else he had worked with, that I can recall. It would've been interesting if Mart Hulswit had still been in the role of Ed, how much more they might've let Ed/Roger clash.

I really do have a soft spot in my heart for Krista's Mindy.

Desert Sun, 22 December 1983 Guiding Light’ writer looks for fresh ideas

By TOM JORY Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK (AP) - “Guiding Light” has been a daytime companion for millions since 1937, starting on radio and switching to TV after 15 years. Can anything new, really new, ever happen to the Bauers or the Reardons or any of the other folks in Springfield?

“I get really upset,” says Pamela Long Hammer, principal writer for the CBS soap opera since March, “because I’ll come up with this neat scenario and someone will say, ‘That’s like “Strangers on a Train.’” “I think, ‘They keep stealing my material.’ “The way I figure it,” she says, “there are only so many stories in the world. It’s the characters who keep the show new and exciting. All of our stories come from them: I don’t come up with a plot, and then work a character into it.”

Continuity is important. Someone out there surely knows all that’s happened, to everyone on the show, in 46 years. How about Miss Long Hammer? "Nope. I care about what our core families have been doing,” she says. “I’m always interested in what happened to Bert Bauer (played since 1950 by Charita Bauer) 20 years ago, but as far as going back and reading scripts, no. “Others on the show keep track,” she says.

“I’ll suggest something, and be told, ‘You don’t remember, but five years ago, they had this terrible fight. They would never speak to one another now.”’ Miss Long Hammer, a former Miss Alabama who came to New York as an aspiring actress in 1980, began writing for daytime television while playing Ashley on NBC’s “Texas.” She eventually wrote herself out of the story. Her staff for “Guiding Light” includes nine writers, among them her husband, Charles Jay Hammer, whom she met while both worked on “Texas.”

NBC dropped “Texas” after two seasons, and episodes from the serial currently are being rerun on the Turner Broadcasting System’s cable-TV SuperStation, WTBS. Gail Kobe, who was executive producer of “Texas,” now has the same job on “Guiding Light.” And Beverlee McKinsey, who played Iris Carrington in “Another World” on NBC, and later in "Texas,” will join the Light” cast of the CBS soap in February.

Miss Long Hammer is reponsible for the long-term story, which can mean looking ahead 18 months or more. Staff writers deal with specifics, including the scripts for individual episodes. She says she draws on “imagination and instinct” for the “Guiding Light” story. Often, that involves inventing new characters. “‘I look at Vanessa (Maeve Kinkead), one of our leading ladies,” Miss Long Hammer says. "What could make the audience care more about her? “Then I think, ‘Why can’t she find a man she can love, who will also love her?’ Voila, here comes Billy Lewis (Jordan Clarke). “Another example,” she says, “is Alan Spaulding (Christopher Bernau). All of a sudden, he’s got a sister no one ever knew about. “They come complete,” says Miss Long Hammer of the serial’s characters, including the new ones. “We know who they are and where they came from long before the viewer gets all that information. That’s one of the most interesting things about daytime, the complexities of the characters.”

The writers make a big effort to keep the show contemporary, and four of the leading players are in their late teens or early 20s Judi Evans, who plays Beth Raines, Kristi Tesreau (Mindy Lewis), Grant Aleksander (Philip Spaulding) and Michael O’Leary (Rick Bauer). “Guiding Light,” longevity notwithstanding, is a moderate success by that ultimate yardstick of the industry; ratings. The show is behind only “General Hospital,” “All My Children” and “One Life to Live,” all on ABC, and CBS’ “The Young and the Restless,” among soaps. And Miss Long Hammer says she’s convinced writing is the key to even greater achievement. “When I say I love the characters, it’s not a light thing,” she says. “I think what the audience senses is an enthusiasm and an energy among the people who do the show.”

1 hour ago, j swift said:

 

SOD's reporting on the Holly/Roger scene, from the last time we discussed it.  It is worse than what you both recall, and Robert Calhoun's response to Maureen Garrett's displeasure is gross.

I was actually referencing another scene between Roger and Alex, which I think is right after they marry. 

But yeah---I'm not really impressed with Calhoun's reasoning. Or the "both recall it wasn't unprovoked" line. Wasn't Holly trying to leave him when he raped her? Oy vey.

58 minutes ago, j swift said:

SOD's reporting on the Holly/Roger scene, from the last time we discussed it.  It is worse than what you both recall, and Robert Calhoun's response to Maureen Garrett's displeasure is gross.

"Holly had her share of the blame..." NO, she did NOT. WOW. That's what you get for trying to be fair and giving these people the benefit of the doubt!

The Rita rape episodes do not seem to be available. It sounds like Calhoun thought it was not dramatized, but it was. I saw it when it aired. Yes, it's close to 50 years ago, and memories aren't 100% reliable. I also know that Zaslow reportedly complained that it was written too much like a seduction and that's why the Dobsons portrayed Holly's rape differently.

Maybe it started like a seduction and she rejected him and that's when it turned violent. I don't remember that part, if it exists. What I do remember is that Roger threw Rita so violently to the floor that she hit her head. They showed him coming at her from her point of view and he looked all fuzzy. It was an act of violence, not a seduction.

Rita kept it a secret until it looked like Roger might be acquited, and then finally admitted it. She didn't make it up, it definitely was not a ploy.

Well, her staff pointing out the movie connection never seemed to stop Long from using those plots. 

She was right about Vanessa--she needed a man who loved her, which she'd never really had up to then. But as others have pointed out, Long borrowed heavily from Taming of the Shrew to get it done. (which while I kinda disputed that, I get more now, having watched Kiss Me Kate a few times since.)

In regards to the Reva vs Erica discussions... I think there was one main difference between the two characters....

Erica never took over/ate up airtime on All My Children.  While she was a larger than life character, she never took over the show and there were times she was even supporting and not the lead.... while Reva basically suffocated Guiding Light in the later years with her presence.

Not having watched AMC was one of the reasons I hesitated to make the comparison, tbf.

It's odd--I feel like I could argue Cassie, Olivia, Harley and Dinah suffocated the show along with Reva the last five years.

9 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I did not realize the only reason the Roger and Holly rape material exists is due to the actors saving it.

Actors doing this is pretty common. I used to work for a company that produced a very successful sitcom back in the 70s. Actors who were guest stars on the show would ask to be provided tapes of their episodes. I assume they do it for a variety of reasons, i.e. to create a reel of their best work.

I know of some soap actors who have uploaded saved work to YT. One is Ariana Muenker, who played Christine Valere on GL. She was uploading scenes from her many soap roles a few months back. Unfortunately, it looks like either she or YT took the channel down.

Sharon Gabet and Mark Arnold help the EON YT channel by providing saved episodes. Along with EON eps, Arnold shared a guest stint he did on GL. Those episodes are really interesting because they involve the introduction of Nola's character, which was tied to the Roger storyline. When he came back after faking his death, he hid out at the boarding house. Nola being a snoop figured out something was fishy with him. She ended up helping the police. Very worth seeking out. I don't think anyone else has those episodes. 

Makes you wonder if there's more out there than we know of because actors don't want to be bothered to run a YT channel. Can't blame them because it's a lot of trouble, but if only...

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Erica never took over/ate up airtime on All My Children.  While she was a larger than life character, she never took over the show and there were times she was even supporting and not the lead.... while Reva basically suffocated Guiding Light in the later years with her presence.

I agree. While Lucci definitely used her fame from the show to build her brand and get work outside of AMC, Erica was always part of an ensemble. Yeah, she got a couple of whacky stories (like the "unabortion") but she never took over to the detriment of other actors and stories.

Edited June 1Jun 1 by DeeVee

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

Actors doing this is pretty common. I used to work for a company that produced a very successful sitcom back in the 70s. Actors who were guest stars on the show would ask to be provided tapes of their episodes. I assume they do it for a variety of reasons, i.e. to create a reel of their best work.

I know of some soap actors who have uploaded saved work to YT. One is Ariana Muenker, who played Christine Valere on GL. She was uploading scenes from her many soap roles a few months back. Unfortunately, it looks like either she or YT took the channel down.

Sharon Gabet and Mark Arnold help the EON YT channel by providing saved episodes. Along with EON eps, Arnold shared a guest stint he did on GL. Those episodes are really interesting because they involve the introduction of Nola's character, which was tied to the Roger storyline. When he came back after faking his death, he hid out at the boarding house. Nola being a snoop figured out something was fishy with him. She ended up helping the police. Very worth seeking out. I don't think anyone else has those episodes. 

Makes you wonder if there's more out there than we know of because actors don't want to be bothered to run a YT channel. Can't blame them because it's a lot of trouble, but if only...

Oh I knew it was common (I did not realize Muenker's channel was gone - I'm glad I saved all those videos). I just didn't realize it was the case with the rape episode. 

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

Not having watched AMC was one of the reasons I hesitated to make the comparison, tbf.

It's odd--I feel like I could argue Cassie, Olivia, Harley and Dinah suffocated the show along with Reva the last five years.

I never really felt like she dominated the show in her second stint either, although I can see where she probably did. I can feel it more in some of her first run, because the show was much different before she came in and suddenly a woman we'd seen for a year was [!@#$%^&*] and marrying an entire family. 

In that sense Reva is more like Babe than Erica Kane. One of the more infamous AMC lines was, "Babe is love." You just know HB would have said that line about Reva at some point.

Edited June 1Jun 1 by DRW50

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

Sharon Gabet and Mark Arnold help the EON YT channel by providing saved episodes. Along with EON eps, Arnold shared a guest stint he did on GL.

I believe it was Mark Arnold's family that taped all the shows. It was the same with Ariane Muneker - her mother bought a video recording machine in the 1970s, at a time when that type of technology was really expensive

John Wesley Shipp's parents also taped all his shows, and has a complete library of every single episode of every soap JWS has appeared on. Same for Cynthia Watros.

When the Soap Actors parents pass away, and there are all these VHS tapes in dozens of boxes, it is shame to waste all that. 

18 hours ago, P.J. said:

As much as I love Zaslow, did Roger ever really have a conscience? 

I know the Dinah/Hart plot grew distasteful, but Roger had run rampant in Springfield since his return. I was ok with him finally getting a taste of his own medicine, so to speak.

But by Dinah and Hart...Hart especially looked as if he could not tie his own shoes! 

Ed, Holly, Alan, Alex Henry and Vanessa among others were not able to put Roger down....Dinah???

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

 

In that sense Reva is more like Babe than Erica Kane. One of the more infamous AMC lines was, "Babe is love." You just know HB would have said that line about Reva at some point.

He comes pretty close, talkin' about how Reva is full of love and joy, blah blah....which is bilge considering he was the one responsible for throwing her out of Josh's life over working with Alan.