I’m up to March 16, 1998.  *Fletcher/Roger/Amanda all leave - ugh - thoughts at bottom.

Michael and Josh get back to SF and Michael surprises Josh by bringing out a baby Reva clone LOL. How in the world can he make this baby in just 1 week’s time (Friday to Friday), which was really just like 2 days in SF time. Josh is dumbfounded, then upset and then a bit grossed out. Michael gives him a picture of the baby and Josh leaves. While alone with the baby clone, Michael feeds her growth serum (I can’t believe I’m typing this haha).

Meanwhile, Cassie/Hart are at home and call about the travel log for the Lewis Oil jet and realize Josh flew to Florida in the last few days, which he didn’t tell them about, so they’re very concerned. Later, Josh comes home and compares the picture of the baby to a baby picture of Reva and he’s shocked they’re identical. Cassie comes into the room and finally grills him about what’s happening, to which Josh says Reva went to Florida because she got a message from a guy that met her a year or so ago after her car went off the bridge back in the day when she was presumed dead. Cassie seems to calm down a bit, but is still suspicious. In another room, Josh calls Michael and tells him he can’t do this anymore and he needs to give the baby up for adoption and let her live a life away from them. Michael says he can’t do that because the clone isn’t a baby anymore. Literally in less than a day, this clone went from a baby to a toddler LOL. Michael asks Josh to give it one more night and visit the clone in the morning. Meanwhile, Cassie finds the baby pictures of Reva and the clone and is more confused.  The next morning, Josh calls Michael again and Cassie overhears him talking about putting a baby up for adoption. She confronts him about what he’s talking to Michael about and then asks about the baby pictures. She says they’re identical but one picture is old and the other is new. He tells her to stop worrying about things and he storms out, just as Hart comes in and Cassie says she’s scared. She starts to think maybe Reva had a child in Florida.

LOL in the minutes it takes Josh to arrive at Michael’s, Reva went from being a toddler to 7 years old, all within the same episode. That growth serum works like magic LOL. This is actually ridiculous now, I didn’t realize the storyline would move this quickly and the clone would grow so quickly. I guess Zimmer is on her annual vacation during all this. Michael then encourages Josh to talk to the clone. The clone asks him to color with her, and then tells him she doesn’t even know her name, to which Josh then says “You’re Reva Shayne”. Then, next scene, we have a camera hovering over a deserted island and we see a washed up unconscious Reva floating on an airplane seat, washed up on shore LOL. Oh boy, this is half ridiculous and half exciting.

Now Michael is using some hypnotic treatment with the clone and Josh is feeding her details of her family history, relationships, and preferences. This is so dumb haha. They do recreate some interesting flashbacks of Reva/Josh as kids first meeting. I didn’t realize they knew each other that long ago as kids. We see the first use of ‘Bud’ and ‘always’ in these flashbacks LOL.

After Beth realizes Harley was investigating her in Arizona, she tells her that Carl used to beat her and she had to get away from him. Harley softens up after hearing this. Later that night, Beth then tells Phillip about Carl beating her and he gets upset about it and consoles her. She tells him Harley found out while investigating her, which also upsets him. Part of me wonders if Beth is using this as a tactic to divide them, she seems like she uses emotions to manipulate people. Phillip later yells at Harley and tells her about how Beth’s stepfather raped her when she was young, and so thanks to her, Beth is reliving all that. Harley says he now gets to be a white knight about it, to which Phillip calls her immature, and the merry-go-round continues with these two.  Harley then hypothesizes that Carl was murdered, which Beth now overhears, and Phillip thinks she’s crazy.

Abby’s hearing starts and they all talk about how the tape isn’t available and therefore Abby changes her plea to guilty, which Griffin sentences her to anywhere between 18 months and 5 years in prison. Ben confirms (lies) that he doesn’t have the tape, which Blake really doesn’t believe. She confronts Ben and Ben very smugly and flirtatiously says they should have dinner and dessert at his place and they can talk about the tape. He hands her keys and says ‘See ya later, alligator’.

Amanda prepares to head West and says goodbye to Phillip, who says he’ll miss her. The night before Roger/Amanda leave SF, Roger goes to Holly’s house and once again asks if she wants him to stay. She says she loves Fletcher, but confesses that she can’t imagine a world where Roger isn’t around. Roger pulls her into a kiss and Fletcher, with Meg, walks up to the house and sees them kissing through the window. Fletcher walks away and tells Meg he will never let Roger be part of her life because he destroys everything he touches. Holly pulls out of the kiss and tells Roger to go, even though it won’t be easy for her, but that’s the best option for her family. It’s clearly hard for her to say this, she says sorry in the end, and they both say they wish the best for each other. Roger then says goodbye and walks out the door, as Holly cries into the couch. Wonderful scenes here, but again, just feels a little empty without Zaslow, sadly. The next morning, Fletcher comes home and confronts Holly about kissing Roger. She tries to convince him that she pulled away, but then tells him that her father introduced her to Roger, and given their past, there will always be a place in her heart for him. Later, Holly goes to Spaulding Mansion to find Roger, but she sees Roger and Amanda kissing and talking about just being married, which troubles her. They see her and she starts crying, but blames it on Abby’s hearing and her recovery from the kidney transplant. They take her home, Roger and Holly both say they’ll miss each other, they hug and Roger leaves Springfield. Holly cries into the couch and the Holly/Roger storyline is sadly forever over. One big complaint from me - where was Roger’s goodbye scene with most importantly Blake and less importantly Hart?!?

Meanwhile, Fletcher leaves Holly a note at home, saying this is the hardest decision he’s ever made, he’s always loved her, but he needs to make Meg’s life a priority and is leaving Springfield with her. He asks her not to look for them. Ok WTF - this is Fletcher’s exit and he’s leaving his wife a note about him leaving and then Holly gets no say in where her baby daughter is going nor get to see/talk to her again? I can’t imagine Holly being ok with this. She’s lost Roger, Fletcher and Meg all on the same day, and she’s supposed to just be ok with this? I’m very curious to see where Holly goes from here, probably depression.

I’m quite disappointed overall in Amanda’s exit (very lackluster - where was Alan?), and the fact they ousted Roger and Fletcher at the same time. You can tell the writers had zero interest in continuing with the Amanda/Roger story once Zaslow had to leave. They were barely used in the last 6-7 months, which is a shame if Amanda was picked to stay over Alex last year. I was never a big Fletcher fan, but he’s been around for a long time and having him leave, by taking Meg without telling Holly where they’re going, is pretty gross. It’s actually quite criminal to essentially kidnap Meg and never let her mother know where she is or how she’s doing.

1 hour ago, alwaysAMC said:

Thanks for sharing, that's great! Who was Ross married to at this time? A schizophrenic with 3 personalities?? Goodness!  

That was about the Carrie Marler story from 1982. I don't know if Ross had any story in 1988 - maybe that's when he was with Nadine, I don't know.

You can get some glimpses of the story around here. I know that this won't make any real sense of the story, so for a summary (I'm probably getting a lot of this wrong - the clips also somehow got under the spoiler bar, sorry):

 

Carrie arrived in Springfield and seemed to be bubbly. Ross, who up to this point had been more a selfish figure beyond pining for Eve [not the Eve you saw], was reformed by her goodness. 

Soon after her arrival, Alan's scheming secretary, Diane Ballard, was murdered. So was her lover/PI, Joe Bradley, who'd had a bitter falling out with her by the end. Carrie had killed them. I think Diane knew Carrie had been lovers with a man in their previous town and had had a child with him that she'd given up for adoption. Carrie went on trial but got off through temporary insanity or something along those lines. 

The "cured" Carrie married Ross, but was actually three people - the Carrie Ross saw, a tramp, and a schemer. The tramp slept with Josh and also seduced a teenager who was cutting lawns. 

The bad Carrie had issues with Ross' sister-in-law, Jackie, and lied to her that Ross' brother/her husband, Justin, had hit on her. I think she also threatened to hurt Jackie's kids with Justin if Jackie didn't leave. An upset Jackie fled town. 

When the true extent of Carrie's madness was uncovered, she recovered enough to try to convince Jackie to return home. When she got on a plane to return home, the plane crashed, and she died. A guilt-ridden Carrie divorced Ross and left town.

This rushed ending was down to the producer, Allen Potter, firing Jane Elliot, as he felt the story wasn't successful or popular, Jane was likely expensive, and he had some allegedly ugly conflicts with Doug Marland.

The second is a whole series of clips.

A whole episode with the Carrie story (and a lot of snoozeworthy material elsewhere as Marland's GL, bless his soul, often makes me drowsy).

 

Edited October 2Oct 2 by DRW50

57 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I actually think Hart should have been Billy, and the story could have still went the way it did (except for the family farm).

I really like this idea, because Roger had an actual relationship with Billy. IIRC, Roger was fond of him and a decent stepfather. Which is one of the reasons Peggy took his side during the rape trial. 

(Roger was sh!tty in many departments, but he genuinely liked kids).

@alwaysAMC You are now irrevocably down the rabbit hole. 😂 Yeah, the story is insane, but it doesn't last that long, so there's that.

@alwaysAMC If you ever have time to kill, I love this clipset, from the late, great classicgl channel, all about Diane Ballard, Alan Spaulding's long-suffering secretary, flying too close to the sun and paying the ultimate price. (and the first clip has Carrie).

 

29 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 If you ever have time to kill, I love this clipset, from the late, great classicgl channel, all about Diane Ballard, Alan Spaulding's long-suffering secretary, flying too close to the sun and paying the ultimate price. (and the first clip has Carrie).

That's so funny that you posted this because last night I was on the German channel watching episodes from this time period.

I was determined to find the scene where Ross demands Diane explain why she wants Phillip left out of the will because the copy on the Spauldingfield channel loses the audio at just that moment. 

I found it. I don't know if it's the wonky translation, but I STILL DON'T GET IT. Something something about getting Phillip out of the way (she assumed Amanda was already out of the way because of her breakdown). Then all she would have to do is get Alan Michael (a newborn!) out of the way and she would control Spaulding. 

It makes ZERO sense. I was thinking since she had caught Ross buying up stock, she should have forced him to continue doing it so she could do a takeover. That probably wasn't realistic, either, but at least it makes some sense.

Marland was not bad at doing character-driven plots, but when he did something totally plot-driven it stuck out like a sore thumb.

Also, I noticed in this scene between Carrie and Diane they act like they don't know each other, when later on they retconned a whole past association between them. 🤔

 

@DeeVee IIRC, there are some hints that they know each other and Carrie denies it.

I respect you guys here who are watching the German dubs. I know I should too but it's tough for me to feel invested if they aren't the originals, even though the originals for that period look like they have been filtered with dirty dishwater.

11 hours ago, DeeVee said:

I think (but I'm not 100% sure) that it was mentioned at some point that Lainie had three kids. Regardless, they could have retconned it because most would not have remembered (as I do not, lol) as her married life took place off screen.

The would have been great. Though two problems: ANOTHER Bill/Billy on the canvas, there were already so many! 😂

The second problem is they probably would have had to recast Peggy, as Fran Myers was mostly writing soaps after she left as Peggy. Though I think she did still occasionally act. Maybe she could have done a guest turn to reintroduce her son to the canvas.

LOL...as I've never seen a scene of Carter and Lainie together, the entire romance might've been off-screen.

Don't forget the jack-of-all trades William, who worked at The Blue Orchid, The Blue Moon and The Towers, not to mention WSPR (if not The Journal back when Maeve was alive, but I'm not positive on that.) 

And there's another problem--he couldn't have even gone by his last name (Fletcher) like others might (or what the hell ever Mallet came up with Mallet), because of Fletcher. So, middle name "X" would be okay. 

There must've been more children at least referenced during the '70's. But it doesn't seem like GL made an effort to give characters families. There's Billy, Emily (who'd never heard of before posting) Tim Werner, Rick, Christina and Phillip. Hope, of course, but she must've been older than Billy at the time. 

I can think of a lot more ATWT children--Betsy, Emily, Frannie, Andy, Paul, Teddy (who becomes Ryder in the '90's), Chuckie (although I'm not sure how old he was when he died)  LOL...ironically, its the same amount.

Edited October 3Oct 3 by P.J.

@alwaysAMC You're brave to continue watching 1998.

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I respect you guys here who are watching the German dubs. I know I should too but it's tough for me to feel invested if they aren't the originals, even though the originals for that period look like they have been filtered with dirty dishwater.

It is very jarring to watch the dubbed episodes. But I'll take what I can get. 😊 It helps to plug in the gaps in my memory. I almost cried when I saw the Italian ones didn't have captioning.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

And there's another problem--he couldn't have even gone by his last name (Fletcher) like others might (or what the hell ever Mallet came up with Mallet), because of Fletcher. So, middle name "X" would be okay. 

I can solve that problem! Peggy remarried after divorcing Roger, Billy, now Will, has taken his stepfather's name. Just like Blake had her stepfather's name when she came back to SF.

Which reminds me: did they ever explain where the name Blake came from? Did she just use it because she liked it or was it her middle name?

10 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

It is very jarring to watch the dubbed episodes. But I'll take what I can get. 😊 It helps to plug in the gaps in my memory. I almost cried when I saw the Italian ones didn't have captioning.

I can solve that problem! Peggy remarried after divorcing Roger, Billy, now Will, has taken his stepfather's name. Just like Blake had her stepfather's name when she came back to SF.

Which reminds me: did they ever explain where the name Blake came from? Did she just use it because she liked it or was it her middle name?

I think the show retcon it that Blake was her middle name when it was discovered she was Christina in late 1988.  

To this day, I wish we knew what the original plan for Blake was when Long created the character and approved the casting of Elizabeth Dennehy as Blake just before the writer strike started.

 

2 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

To this day, I wish we knew what the original plan for Blake was when Long created the character and approved the casting of Elizabeth Dennehy as Blake just before the writer strike started.

From what I remember, she definitely was hiding something. She was always talking on the phone to someone. The impression I got was that she was speaking to someone younger, like a sibling. No way to know if the scabs made that up or if they were working from Long's bible.

Maybe she was supposed to be Rita's kid originally? Although that's a character Long never wrote for, so probably not.

2 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

From what I remember, she definitely was hiding something. She was always talking on the phone to someone. The impression I got was that she was speaking to someone younger, like a sibling. No way to know if the scabs made that up or if they were working from Long's bible.

Maybe she was supposed to be Rita's kid originally? Although that's a character Long never wrote for, so probably not.

Blake was not even in the outlines when the strike started and the scabs just introduced herself onto the show and had her on the phone to someone in order to fill time.   When Long came back after the strike, she asked them about all the phone calls and who she was talking to and the scabs had no idea

1 minute ago, Soaplovers said:

Blake was not even in the outlines when the strike started and the scabs just introduced herself onto the show and had her on the phone to someone in order to fill time.   When Long came back after the strike, she asked them about all the phone calls and who she was talking to and the scabs had no idea

That's hilarious!

That period when the scabs took over was pretty dreadful, so I believe  it. 😂

Nearly half of 1988 was writer's strike material, so that year was a write off for most shows.

There weren't any other children from the past apart from Billy and Emily who had any 'current' connection.

It was poor planning not to give Mike a son at some point as he only had Hope and she was born early 60's.

He and Leslie should have had a son before she was killed off.