It's time, they've had a little over a year and the past 4-6 months have been horrible...

For months Y&R has been heading down a damaging and convoluted path of inane, poorly paced, poorly executed storyline that goes against the grain of the show's history and against the grain of basic soap opera. Very little makes sense, almost everything is rushed, which leads to little to no real aftermath or emotional resonance. Everything feels hollow, characters are unrecognizable, stories are going nowhere, ratings are generally stagnant in the lower region of the poll. Needless to say, something must be done to save American's #1 daytime drama. Getting rid of Maria Arena Bell, Hogan Sheffer, Scott Hamner, and Paul Rauch and replacing them with perhaps a singular Head Writer and a seperate Executive Producer with a much better and proven track record would be .

Today's show, the 9/17/09 US episode was rock bottom for a lot of us. It simply highlighted everything that is wrong with Y&R and the current writing and producing regime in charge of running the show (and IMO, into the ground). A core character, Colleen Carlton, was killed off for no meaningful reason, other than to create "shock" which is of course a very temporary high. Unlike the death of fellow next generation character Cassie Newman, Colleen's death had no sufficient build up, nor were her connections to her family even explored sufficiently in the months/weeks leading up to her senseless and overtly plot-driven death. Had that happened, maybe the emotional resonance of the story would have been better projected, instead, they killed off a next generation character with ties to a lot on the canvas that had unlimited possibilities as a character, just for shock. Victor and Jack's feud already had a lot available to reignite it in a big way, from the runification of Ashley (which I'll get into a bit later) to the Patty Williams fiasco. So again, what was the use of killing this character, core character mind you, off? Granted the actress playing her was pretty polarizing, but not like they even attempted to write anything sufficient and long-term for her. Not to mention, the Colleen stuff on today's US episode FAILED MASSIVELY from a production standpoint.

Which leads me to another problem that has been plaguing this show - the horribly misogynistic writing for women. Since the beginning of this writing regime consisting of Maria Arena Bell, Hogan Sheffer, and Scott Hamner, women have been written as idiots who see themselves as inferior without a man (like Phyllis and Sharon in relation to Nick, Gloria in relation to Jeffrey, Chloe in relation to Billy, even Lily in relation to Cane and Mac in relation to Billy). Not only that, Hogan Sheffer apparently recycled one of his most hated plot devices when he had an emotional crushed and vulnerable Amber sexually assaulted by Deacon Sharpe, who coerced her into having sex with him. The whole thing, in Sheffer style, was glossed over and Amber continues to demean herself in Deacon's presence. Next on to the fiasco that's become of Patty William/Mary Jane Benson. A woman apparently so crazy over her lost love with Jack that she's gone mentally ill and killing people, dogs, and causing brain damage to an innocent little girl with no motivation whatsoever that's apparent in the writing. Then there's of course the intense ruining of Adam and Ashley. Ashley has a history of mental illness, yes, but never has someone intentionally driven her to be so stupid and insane. It's not fun or riveting to watch, the whole storyline has dumbed down characters for the purpose of suiting a stupid plot point. Michael Muhney's one-note, campy, and hilarious for all the wrong reasons portrayal of Adam hasn't been helping matter either. Adam seemingly has no motivation or emotion as a character anymore. Many find it hard to believe that this is the son Hope raised. Anyway, not long ago, Jill and Victoria were kicking ass in the board room, Ashley was mixing potions in her lab, Dru and Phyllis were fierce women who didn't take bull and told it like it was. What happened to that? Do the idiots in charge of Y&R right now understand that women are actually the target audience for their show?

Let's also not forget the mess that's become of Y&R's once strong and distinctive African American presence. The Winters family has been neglected or given repulsive storylines (like the Tyra mess) since the BEGINNING of this current writing and producing regime at Y&R.

Y&R used to do boardroom drama and explore the professional lives of its characters like no other soap. That became a key part of the show's success over the past 25 years, whether some liked it or not. It gave various characters the opportunity to interact with characters that they probably wouldn't get the chance to meet if only their domestic lives, well that's been completely ignored by this current writing regime. Even Lynn Marie Latham tried hard to keep this aspect of the show alive, she might have failed, but she TRIED.

Not to mention, those writing Y&R seem to have such contempt for the longtime fans of this show and their knowledge of the history of this show. We've been fed retcon after retcon this year. Like now with Tom and Deacon's sudden interest in art, or the complete mess the Phillip III return storyline morphed into (which, of course, has been ignored for the past two months it seems). Your audience IS NOT STUPID, Y&R. Treat them with some respect, and then you can expect better feedback.

There's been some very worrying trends with this writing regime at Y&R since the beginning. Like the reliance of a set in stone death to drive storyline, the constant victimization of women, loony kidnappings, and the horrible emphasis on art storylines since Maria Arena Bell began her reign of terror. Y&R is not Passions, for years Y&R was the only soap that had a level of consistency to it, and respected the knowledge of its viewers. Viewers have simply been asked to suspend disbelief too much and too constantly with the inane storylines this writing regime comes up with.

Y&R simply does not feel like a soap anymore. Gone are the build up to storylines, the emphasis on character motivation, the gradual pacing that teases the audience into want to turning in the next day. Y&R is not a primetime show, nor does it have the budget to model itself after one. We want our daily soap opera back that's proud of being what it is - a daytime soap!

Maria Arena Bell is an amateur that has no Head Writing training, and her massive ego that refuses to acknowledge any problems with her show, is not doing the show any favors.

Hogan Sheffer and Scott Hamner have disastrous track records at various other soaps. Many of the pacing issues and victimization of women issues have been very prominent on Sheffer's past shows, and on Hamner's Port Charles. Who really came up with the bright idea that all of these people would mesh well together over the long haul? I do not see the reasoning in subjecting this show to being led by three very different, polarizing, and dammging Head Writers who all seem to have a different agenda. Hence the choppy and disjointed direction Y&R has taken over the past 4-6 months.

IF we must keep Maria Arena Bell, since she's married to one of the show's owners, then it's time for her to admit to some mistakes and fire Sheffer and Hamner, and hire a better Co-Head Writer. Preferably, ONE Co-Head Writer, so there isn't too many conflicting visions plaguing this show at any one time. Cutting her breakdown and scriptwriting team in half and replacing a few staff writers with better, more established talent would also be wise. The day to day writing has been atrocious over the past couple of months, and this writing team is seemingly full of people whose work do not mesh well as a team and do not get the essence of what Y&R is.

One does not need to go into Paul Rauch's disastrous history as a soap opera Executive Producer, and how tacky Y&R has looked from a production standpoint recently. The awful Colleen stuff today was horribly produced.

Anyway, if Maria Arena Bell MUST stay, it would be wise of her to hire someone that knows Y&R inside out as her Co-Head Writer. Kay Alden and Jack Smith might have had their detractors, but they wrote a hell of a more of a consistent show that offered variety and stories that were true to the grain of the show and the daytime soap opera form. There's also a host of former Bill Bell proteges like Rex M. Best, Meg Bennett, Michael Minnis, and others who I beleive would do a adequate job of crafting storylines for Y&R. Also, there's also trying to, at least trying to lure a big name writer from daytime's glory days back to the genre or trying to find a real storyteller that is trained in the basics of soap opera writing.

This thread was not created to start any fan wars, or any posts about how daytime is dying and how nothing will be done to save it and we just need to accept it ( ). This thread is about acknowledging that the current writing and producing regime at Y&R has failed the show in more ways than one and some changes need to be made behind the scenes to better this onetime virtually flawless daytime institution. Daytime deserves better and Y&R fans sure as hell deserve better than what we've been getting from the current writing and producing regime.

This is an appeal to Barbara Bloom, Steven Kent and Steve Mosko at Sony, and Bill Bell, Jr. Do something to SAVE Y&R! The show is in ruins and deserves so much better. Get the show a new Head Writer and Executive Producer.

Edited September 18, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I agree, it may have been a long term error on Jill's part, but Nancy Curlee and Stephen Demorest wrote the hell out of it. To this day, I think it was truly the last great written death in daytime. I'm not taking about the long-term effects, but the story itself and how was it executed and scripted.

People like to dismiss it because of what it did over the long-haul, but it was superbly executed and made sense with the way it was written.

But it cost the show in major ways in the long-run, so what's the point? The goal is to HOLD your audience and BUILD on it, not do something that, while beautifully executed, alienates the audience and starts to gnaw away at their confidence in the producers or writers of a show. So much of what's wrong with daytime today can be traced to EPs and HWs who have lost the trust of the audience. Such is the case for JFP IMHO.

Why not?

Because Rauch is doing such a fantastic job with his trashy bright lighting and his greenscreen heaven? Oh yeah, and the acting is just so superb on Y&R these days.

And picking someone with the Bell Pedigree doesn't give me any hope either. Look at how well THAT'S turning out so far!

And how is Jill's darkly lit, shadowy GH an improvement? I don't care for either, frankly. As for the acting on Y&R vs. GH, I think there are superb actors on both shows, and duds. It's like comparing apples and apples.

Again, you're missing the point. No matter how well executed (thanks to Curlee and team), killing Maureen was a tragically flawed decision that cost GL in the short and long term. This isn't the kind of decision making I have any confidence in. If a "horrible mistake" is "very well done," does it make it any less a "horrible mistake." Absolutely not.

I see your point, but if we're going to get that anyway, would you rather it be done amateurishly, or with more care?

But it cost the show in major ways in the long-run, so what's the point? The goal is to HOLD your audience and BUILD on it, not do something that, while beautifully executed, alienates the audience and starts to gnaw away at their confidence in the producers or writers of a show. So much of what's wrong with daytime today can be traced to EPs and HWs who have lost the trust of the audience. Such is the case for JFP IMHO.

I definitely think Maureen's death was fatal long-term error, but I think GL did much worse in the years following that really sent the show to it's current death. Maureen's death might have started a chain of events, but the show could have easily found a matriarchal figure to take Maureen's place. Hell, Meta's role should have been expanded upon, but it really wasn't. Vanessa could have also taken on a bigger role, but Maeve Kinkead was forced off in following years. I think too much of GL's downfall is placed on Maureen's death, when so much worse happened afterwards that really damaged the credibility and integrity of that show in more profound ways.

No show is really holding on to any audience or building on it anymore. I'm not calling for JFP to join Y&R, but she's really no better or worse at running a soap opera than people like Sheffer, Hamner, Rauch, or Maria Bell. Y&R can;t even do plot-driven and stunt heavy drama correctly with this regime.

I think Y&R needs someone with a strong vision and strong leadership skills. Something no one at the show currently has. Y&R lacks vision and direction, more so than a lot of other soaps at the moment, IMO.

Again, it's all about the stories. Not about big budgets, and even with network and corporate interference, a quality product can be produced. The thing is, we have no one working in daytime at the moment that can handle the genre or the demands it brings. I think the argument that daytime is dying and these are the final year, so we have to accept it is total bull. No one is fighting for quality stories anymore, they're just happy with the status quo and to collect a pay check.

Edited October 24, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

And how is Jill's darkly lit, shadowy GH an improvement?

GH's production has improved tremendously since the switch to HD. The show isn't dark or shadowy anymore. The lighting is quite cinematic and the colours really pop on the show.

Comparing Y&R and GH in HD, just on aesthetics alone, GH wins hands down these days. It's a shame, Y&R used to be so cinematic and beautifully produced, I can't say so anymore. Y&R's look used to very much be apart of its identity, and that's gone now, for the most part.

I definitely think Maureen's death was fatal long-term error, but I think GL did much worse in the years following that really sent the show to it's current death. Maureen's death might have started a chain of events, but the show could have easily found a matriarchal figure to take Maureen's place. Hell, Meta's role should have been expanded upon, but it really wasn't. Vanessa could have also taken on a bigger role, but Maeve Kinkead was forced off in following years. I think too much of GL's downfall is placed on Maureen's death, when so much worse happened afterwards that really damaged the credibility and integrity of that show in more profound ways.

No show is really holding on to any audience or building on it anymore. I'm not calling for JFP to join Y&R, but she's really no better or worse at running a soap opera than people like Sheffer, Hamner, Rauch, or Maria Bell. Y&R can;t even do plot-driven and stunt heavy drama correctly with this regime.

I think Y&R needs someone with a strong vision and strong leadership skills. Something no one at the show currently has. Y&R lacks vision and direction, more so than a lot of other soaps at the moment, IMO.

Again, it's all about the stories. Not about big budgets, and even with network and corporate interference, a quality product can be produced. The thing is, we have no one working in daytime at the moment that can handle the genre or the demands it brings. I think the argument that daytime is dying and these are the final year, so we have to accept it is total bull. No one is fighting for quality stories anymore, they're just happy with the status quo and collect a pay check.

DAYS does seem to be holding its audience and building on it. That's the current tend anyway. I think that gives hope to the other soaps, including Y&R. But Y&R has to get back to what it used to do best: romance, relationships, intriguing stories that touch the heart. They don't need to copy anyone. They don't need to amp things up (if anything, they need to slow things down, find the beats and mine them). They don't need to look to GH, which is fumbling badly all on its own. As for your statement that "no one is fighting for quality stories anymore, they're just happy with the status quo and collect a paycheck," I just don't buy it. That may well be true at the top, with Frons and Bloom and even some of the EPs and HWs. But there are writers in the genre who love it, who want to see it succeed for many more years, but who don't have the power and can't make the kind of big changes that could save shows. The power resides at the top, like most of the decisions, which is a shame.

GH's production has improved tremendously since the switch to HD. The show isn't dark or shadowy anymore. The lighting is quite cinematic and the colours really pop on the show.

Comparing Y&R and GH in HD, just on aesthetics alone, GH wins hands down these days. It's a shame, Y&R used to be so cinematic and beautifully produced, I can't say so anymore. Y&R's look used to very much be apart of its identity, and that's gone now, for the most part.

All the money spent on GH's aesthetics don't mean a thing if it doesn't translate into ratings. The problem isn't the sets or lighting on this show, it's the godawful storytelling. The dark and depressing plots. Again, I go back to Bill Bell's mantra: give the audience two engaging actors, a great story and sharp script, add in a waterfall -- nope, no need for the waterfall." GH has got the waterfall, in HD no less. But it hasn't had the story for a long, long time. (I could argue Y&R hasn't either, but you see my point.)

DAYS does seem to be holding its audience and building on it. That's the current tend anyway. I think that gives hope to the other soaps, including Y&R. But Y&R has to get back to what it used to do best: romance, relationships, intriguing stories that touch the heart. They don't need to copy anyone.

I think Gary Tomlin came into DAYS with a very specific direction and vision that he was fully committed to and fought for it. Not only has DAYS stabilized in the ratings and is actually growing, it has definitely stabilized creatively. DAYS used to be the most inconsistent and polarizing soap on the air, now it's just the opposite.

As for Y&R, I don't think Maria, Sheffer, Hamner, and Rauch particularly specialize in the old Y&R way of doing things, and I don't think they want to, hence why we have the show we have now. There seems to be mandate at Y&R to ignore the show that it once was.

As for your statement that "no one is fighting for quality stories anymore, they're just happy with the status quo and collect a paycheck," I just don't buy it. That may well be true at the top, with Frons and Bloom and even some of the EPs and HWs. But there are writers in the genre who love it, who want to see it succeed for many more years, but who don't have the power and can't make the kind of big changes that could save shows. The power resides at the top, like most of the decisions, which is a shame.

But that's the thing, unless we get people who care and fight for quality and a stable vision as network heads, HW's, and EP's, nothing is going to change. The ruling class in daytime that we have now is just content with the way things are, they don't want to go back to basics and what used to work. It's all about the short term, not the long term, sadly.

Who do you think can save Y&R creatively, SOAPSFOREVER? What writers and producers would you suggest?

All the money spent on GH's aesthetics don't mean a thing if it doesn't translate into ratings. The problem isn't the sets or lighting on this show, it's the godawful storytelling. The dark and depressing plots. Again, I go back to Bill Bell's mantra: give the audience two engaging actors, a great story and sharp script, add in a waterfall -- nope, no need for the waterfall." GH has got the waterfall, in HD no less. But it hasn't had the story for a long, long time. (I could argue Y&R hasn't either, but you see my point.)

That's true, but then, Guza writes the show. I'm not a JFP fan, but if we are only judging on production values, and the vision which tries to make the wretched, history-aborting storytelling somewhat tolerable, then it's not that bad.

Right now Y&R is sort of falling down in all areas. They are relying on the goodwill of people who are no longer involved with the show, and at times are almost gleefully destroying much of what those people created.

All the money spent on GH's aesthetics don't mean a thing if it doesn't translate into ratings. The problem isn't the sets or lighting on this show, it's the godawful storytelling. The dark and depressing plots. Again, I go back to Bill Bell's mantra: give the audience two engaging actors, a great story and sharp script, add in a waterfall -- nope, no need for the waterfall." GH has got the waterfall, in HD no less. But it hasn't had the story for a long, long time. (I could argue Y&R hasn't either, but you see my point.)

I do agree that storytelling comes first, but I had to make a post about the aesthetics at each show. LOL!

Soaps looked aesthetically awful up to the 80's, but it didn't matter, they were gripping and took their time to tell character driven stories that connected with their audience. This hasn't been done for years, and no one wants to go back to basics. I think too much is blamed on budget, when really, soaps had awful budgets from the 50's to 70's.

Edited October 24, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I'm bumping this thread to discuss this, and really it should be bumped given the dissatisfaction most people posting here have with Y&R and its writing team.

Well I guess the Cassie picture is definitely a gonner now. I can't believe that people are so concerned about Daisy when they just destroyed one of the longest used sets to justify the plot of Sharon moving into the Ranch with her baby. It would be nice if on moving in she replays that scene from her first year where she's pawing all over the items at the ranch and hoping that some day they'll be hers.

It's really atrocious writing, if they wanted to move Sharon out, they could have had Adam ask her to move to the Ranch with him and Ashley, since these two are married (another rushed plot point). There was no need to destroy that set to prop a character (Daisy) that no one cares about.

These writers so need to be fired this year, the show is too far gone now, and this sloppy and downright horrific storytelling has gone on for months now. It's time for some behind the scenes shake-ups at Y&R.

Hold up what happened? I missed Y&R today.

Yeah - fire a HW/EP who just got a 3.9 in the ratings...

Yeah - fire a HW/EP who just got a 3.9 in the ratings...

Yes, which is on par with similar ratings growth from previous years during the Holiday's...

And let's see where they are after the holiday's to brag about this 3.9...

Also, I'm still waiting for Toups to confirm this bit of information. ONE 3.9, WOW. Let's see if they can sustain it, which I doubt they will.

Latham consistently got above a 4.0 and above, I guess they never should have let her go either, right?

Hold up what happened? I missed Y&R today.

They destroyed one of their longest running sets all to prop this worthless newbie character Daisy, when they really didn't need to.

Really, they invest more in their flavour of the month newbies than they do to any history of this show...

Edited January 8, 201015 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Fire these hacks! Only mindless children could go on thinking this is superb-writing after they've destroyed everything the viewers were longing for. Stupid MAB and her band of hacks.