Maureen's death was actually very well done, for the most part. She should never have been killed, it was a horrible mistake, but the death was well executed (no pun intended).

If Y&R is going to keep going on a killing spree, then she is better at it.

Again, you're missing the point. No matter how well executed (thanks to Curlee and team), killing Maureen was a tragically flawed decision that cost GL in the short and long term. This isn't the kind of decision making I have any confidence in. If a "horrible mistake" is "very well done," does it make it any less a "horrible mistake." Absolutely not.

I agree, it may have been a long term error on Jill's part, but Nancy Curlee and Stephen Demorest wrote the hell out of it. To this day, I think it was truly the last great written death in daytime. I'm not taking about the long-term effects, but the story itself and how was it executed and scripted.

People like to dismiss it because of what it did over the long-haul, but it was superbly executed and made sense with the way it was written.

But it cost the show in major ways in the long-run, so what's the point? The goal is to HOLD your audience and BUILD on it, not do something that, while beautifully executed, alienates the audience and starts to gnaw away at their confidence in the producers or writers of a show. So much of what's wrong with daytime today can be traced to EPs and HWs who have lost the trust of the audience. Such is the case for JFP IMHO.

Why not?

Because Rauch is doing such a fantastic job with his trashy bright lighting and his greenscreen heaven? Oh yeah, and the acting is just so superb on Y&R these days.

And picking someone with the Bell Pedigree doesn't give me any hope either. Look at how well THAT'S turning out so far!

And how is Jill's darkly lit, shadowy GH an improvement? I don't care for either, frankly. As for the acting on Y&R vs. GH, I think there are superb actors on both shows, and duds. It's like comparing apples and apples.

Again, you're missing the point. No matter how well executed (thanks to Curlee and team), killing Maureen was a tragically flawed decision that cost GL in the short and long term. This isn't the kind of decision making I have any confidence in. If a "horrible mistake" is "very well done," does it make it any less a "horrible mistake." Absolutely not.

I see your point, but if we're going to get that anyway, would you rather it be done amateurishly, or with more care?

But it cost the show in major ways in the long-run, so what's the point? The goal is to HOLD your audience and BUILD on it, not do something that, while beautifully executed, alienates the audience and starts to gnaw away at their confidence in the producers or writers of a show. So much of what's wrong with daytime today can be traced to EPs and HWs who have lost the trust of the audience. Such is the case for JFP IMHO.

I definitely think Maureen's death was fatal long-term error, but I think GL did much worse in the years following that really sent the show to it's current death. Maureen's death might have started a chain of events, but the show could have easily found a matriarchal figure to take Maureen's place. Hell, Meta's role should have been expanded upon, but it really wasn't. Vanessa could have also taken on a bigger role, but Maeve Kinkead was forced off in following years. I think too much of GL's downfall is placed on Maureen's death, when so much worse happened afterwards that really damaged the credibility and integrity of that show in more profound ways.

No show is really holding on to any audience or building on it anymore. I'm not calling for JFP to join Y&R, but she's really no better or worse at running a soap opera than people like Sheffer, Hamner, Rauch, or Maria Bell. Y&R can;t even do plot-driven and stunt heavy drama correctly with this regime.

I think Y&R needs someone with a strong vision and strong leadership skills. Something no one at the show currently has. Y&R lacks vision and direction, more so than a lot of other soaps at the moment, IMO.

Again, it's all about the stories. Not about big budgets, and even with network and corporate interference, a quality product can be produced. The thing is, we have no one working in daytime at the moment that can handle the genre or the demands it brings. I think the argument that daytime is dying and these are the final year, so we have to accept it is total bull. No one is fighting for quality stories anymore, they're just happy with the status quo and to collect a pay check.

Edited October 24, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

And how is Jill's darkly lit, shadowy GH an improvement?

GH's production has improved tremendously since the switch to HD. The show isn't dark or shadowy anymore. The lighting is quite cinematic and the colours really pop on the show.

Comparing Y&R and GH in HD, just on aesthetics alone, GH wins hands down these days. It's a shame, Y&R used to be so cinematic and beautifully produced, I can't say so anymore. Y&R's look used to very much be apart of its identity, and that's gone now, for the most part.

I definitely think Maureen's death was fatal long-term error, but I think GL did much worse in the years following that really sent the show to it's current death. Maureen's death might have started a chain of events, but the show could have easily found a matriarchal figure to take Maureen's place. Hell, Meta's role should have been expanded upon, but it really wasn't. Vanessa could have also taken on a bigger role, but Maeve Kinkead was forced off in following years. I think too much of GL's downfall is placed on Maureen's death, when so much worse happened afterwards that really damaged the credibility and integrity of that show in more profound ways.

No show is really holding on to any audience or building on it anymore. I'm not calling for JFP to join Y&R, but she's really no better or worse at running a soap opera than people like Sheffer, Hamner, Rauch, or Maria Bell. Y&R can;t even do plot-driven and stunt heavy drama correctly with this regime.

I think Y&R needs someone with a strong vision and strong leadership skills. Something no one at the show currently has. Y&R lacks vision and direction, more so than a lot of other soaps at the moment, IMO.

Again, it's all about the stories. Not about big budgets, and even with network and corporate interference, a quality product can be produced. The thing is, we have no one working in daytime at the moment that can handle the genre or the demands it brings. I think the argument that daytime is dying and these are the final year, so we have to accept it is total bull. No one is fighting for quality stories anymore, they're just happy with the status quo and collect a pay check.

DAYS does seem to be holding its audience and building on it. That's the current tend anyway. I think that gives hope to the other soaps, including Y&R. But Y&R has to get back to what it used to do best: romance, relationships, intriguing stories that touch the heart. They don't need to copy anyone. They don't need to amp things up (if anything, they need to slow things down, find the beats and mine them). They don't need to look to GH, which is fumbling badly all on its own. As for your statement that "no one is fighting for quality stories anymore, they're just happy with the status quo and collect a paycheck," I just don't buy it. That may well be true at the top, with Frons and Bloom and even some of the EPs and HWs. But there are writers in the genre who love it, who want to see it succeed for many more years, but who don't have the power and can't make the kind of big changes that could save shows. The power resides at the top, like most of the decisions, which is a shame.

GH's production has improved tremendously since the switch to HD. The show isn't dark or shadowy anymore. The lighting is quite cinematic and the colours really pop on the show.

Comparing Y&R and GH in HD, just on aesthetics alone, GH wins hands down these days. It's a shame, Y&R used to be so cinematic and beautifully produced, I can't say so anymore. Y&R's look used to very much be apart of its identity, and that's gone now, for the most part.

All the money spent on GH's aesthetics don't mean a thing if it doesn't translate into ratings. The problem isn't the sets or lighting on this show, it's the godawful storytelling. The dark and depressing plots. Again, I go back to Bill Bell's mantra: give the audience two engaging actors, a great story and sharp script, add in a waterfall -- nope, no need for the waterfall." GH has got the waterfall, in HD no less. But it hasn't had the story for a long, long time. (I could argue Y&R hasn't either, but you see my point.)

DAYS does seem to be holding its audience and building on it. That's the current tend anyway. I think that gives hope to the other soaps, including Y&R. But Y&R has to get back to what it used to do best: romance, relationships, intriguing stories that touch the heart. They don't need to copy anyone.

I think Gary Tomlin came into DAYS with a very specific direction and vision that he was fully committed to and fought for it. Not only has DAYS stabilized in the ratings and is actually growing, it has definitely stabilized creatively. DAYS used to be the most inconsistent and polarizing soap on the air, now it's just the opposite.

As for Y&R, I don't think Maria, Sheffer, Hamner, and Rauch particularly specialize in the old Y&R way of doing things, and I don't think they want to, hence why we have the show we have now. There seems to be mandate at Y&R to ignore the show that it once was.

As for your statement that "no one is fighting for quality stories anymore, they're just happy with the status quo and collect a paycheck," I just don't buy it. That may well be true at the top, with Frons and Bloom and even some of the EPs and HWs. But there are writers in the genre who love it, who want to see it succeed for many more years, but who don't have the power and can't make the kind of big changes that could save shows. The power resides at the top, like most of the decisions, which is a shame.

But that's the thing, unless we get people who care and fight for quality and a stable vision as network heads, HW's, and EP's, nothing is going to change. The ruling class in daytime that we have now is just content with the way things are, they don't want to go back to basics and what used to work. It's all about the short term, not the long term, sadly.

Who do you think can save Y&R creatively, SOAPSFOREVER? What writers and producers would you suggest?

All the money spent on GH's aesthetics don't mean a thing if it doesn't translate into ratings. The problem isn't the sets or lighting on this show, it's the godawful storytelling. The dark and depressing plots. Again, I go back to Bill Bell's mantra: give the audience two engaging actors, a great story and sharp script, add in a waterfall -- nope, no need for the waterfall." GH has got the waterfall, in HD no less. But it hasn't had the story for a long, long time. (I could argue Y&R hasn't either, but you see my point.)

That's true, but then, Guza writes the show. I'm not a JFP fan, but if we are only judging on production values, and the vision which tries to make the wretched, history-aborting storytelling somewhat tolerable, then it's not that bad.

Right now Y&R is sort of falling down in all areas. They are relying on the goodwill of people who are no longer involved with the show, and at times are almost gleefully destroying much of what those people created.

All the money spent on GH's aesthetics don't mean a thing if it doesn't translate into ratings. The problem isn't the sets or lighting on this show, it's the godawful storytelling. The dark and depressing plots. Again, I go back to Bill Bell's mantra: give the audience two engaging actors, a great story and sharp script, add in a waterfall -- nope, no need for the waterfall." GH has got the waterfall, in HD no less. But it hasn't had the story for a long, long time. (I could argue Y&R hasn't either, but you see my point.)

I do agree that storytelling comes first, but I had to make a post about the aesthetics at each show. LOL!

Soaps looked aesthetically awful up to the 80's, but it didn't matter, they were gripping and took their time to tell character driven stories that connected with their audience. This hasn't been done for years, and no one wants to go back to basics. I think too much is blamed on budget, when really, soaps had awful budgets from the 50's to 70's.

Edited October 24, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I'm bumping this thread to discuss this, and really it should be bumped given the dissatisfaction most people posting here have with Y&R and its writing team.

Well I guess the Cassie picture is definitely a gonner now. I can't believe that people are so concerned about Daisy when they just destroyed one of the longest used sets to justify the plot of Sharon moving into the Ranch with her baby. It would be nice if on moving in she replays that scene from her first year where she's pawing all over the items at the ranch and hoping that some day they'll be hers.

It's really atrocious writing, if they wanted to move Sharon out, they could have had Adam ask her to move to the Ranch with him and Ashley, since these two are married (another rushed plot point). There was no need to destroy that set to prop a character (Daisy) that no one cares about.

These writers so need to be fired this year, the show is too far gone now, and this sloppy and downright horrific storytelling has gone on for months now. It's time for some behind the scenes shake-ups at Y&R.

Hold up what happened? I missed Y&R today.

Yeah - fire a HW/EP who just got a 3.9 in the ratings...

Yeah - fire a HW/EP who just got a 3.9 in the ratings...

Yes, which is on par with similar ratings growth from previous years during the Holiday's...

And let's see where they are after the holiday's to brag about this 3.9...

Also, I'm still waiting for Toups to confirm this bit of information. ONE 3.9, WOW. Let's see if they can sustain it, which I doubt they will.

Latham consistently got above a 4.0 and above, I guess they never should have let her go either, right?

Hold up what happened? I missed Y&R today.

They destroyed one of their longest running sets all to prop this worthless newbie character Daisy, when they really didn't need to.

Really, they invest more in their flavour of the month newbies than they do to any history of this show...

Edited January 8, 201015 yr by Y&RWorldTurner