ATWT: Question about 1985 transition

[Chris B]

I have several weeks leading upto Marland's arrival, including a months worth of episodes when Bob and Kim got married. I thought the show was still very good before he arrived. It lacked the humor he brought and was a little too glamourous/adventurous, but it was still very good. Also, Diana was written out before Marland arrived.

[DRW50]

Yes, I remember reading in Schmering's book that the show was good before he arrived, it just got even better. I hope some of that is on Youtube someday, since it isn't likely to be rerun.

I wonder if he would have used Frannie so much if Julianne Moore hadn't been in the part. The one before her doesn't seem as capable.

[dc11786]

There are episodes on youtube from July 1985 and Susan Bedsow Horgan, Jack Sowards, and Janet Stampfl are the first billed. Marland's work at "Loving" aired through June or early July 1985 as he completed a two year contract with "Loving."

Paul Raven, I think the synopsis covers late July 1985. I found weekly newspaper synopses published the last week of July covering the car crash and the Craig's sterility. Those are usually a week behind tops.

[DRW50]

Thanks. I'll have to look for those. So that was their work. I read somewhere that Marland wrote Bob and Kim's reception, I'm not sure if that's true or not.

I wonder why Horgan never went back to ATWT when she was done as EP at OLTL.

[Paul Raven]

According to Soap central,Iva and Emma were the first Snyders onscreen.They list Emma debuting in July and Iva in August,which seems unlikely in that I'm sure Iva would have been seen first.

They have Holden debuting in October 85.

[soapfan770]

I'd have to say that Lindsay Frost was horrible as Betsy in my opinion. While she was never going to be Meg Ryan, she did bring the character down and her popularity. Marland didn't write for Betsy much even after Steve left. I think it's fair to say Marland mainly wrote out Bunim era characters who he felt were unnecessary and in hindsight made the correct decision.

In terms of quality I have to agree with the other sentiments here. After the Dobsons left and the whole Mr. Big stuff ended I'd say ATWT from 1983 to 1985 was good but could be inconsistent. After Marland started writing, well the show became truly phenomenal.

Here's a couple promos from the fall of 1985. I had to re-look them up, and even though there just promos, they are compelling enough that I want to re-watch the whole thing from start to finish:

[DRW50]

Those are great promos.

Did Marland create Jessica? He wrote out the other black characters who already existed, didn't he? Heather Dalton, and Roy Franklin and his sister?

[Mitch]

You saw a definate shift in tone when Marland arrived. I know people are big fans of the Dobson's but they are the writers who followed made ATWT a little too cartoony and actiony (dont get me wrong, I was a kid and I ate it up.) As soon as Marland arrived you could tell they were getting back to the Hughes as the main family, and characters started interacting quite a bit more then we were used to (Marland seemed to have at least on big gathering a week, be it a family party at Bob and Kims, or at the Snyders, or everyone happening to go eat out at Mona Lisa...it was ridiculous but great, all soaps seem so depressing and the characters cut off from each other now.) The scenes seemed to be longer with more people going in and out of them and the character's seem to start getting smarter...and way too earnest.

FR decided to leave as he was pissed that the show was the "Steve and Betsy," show no more (even Marland called it that.) It was the right decision for both the actor and the show at the time..could you see that happening on a soap now...we would still be getting endless rerunning of Steve and Betsy breaking up and getting together, etc.

The change in Lisa, well the Dobsons reduced her to a flighty dimbulb. The follow up writers fixed that, she got back to being smart and kind of tough ass, especially during the Whit Murder trial investigation, and her fighting with Lucinda, a natural extension of what she would have evolved too. Marland had a problem with her being bitchy though, so he softened her edges..so she became kind of dull(Lisa at the time was in love with Bob again and causing some problems there, which Marland dropped. )

[DRW50]

Thanks, Mitch. I know Eileen left in the early 80s. Was that because of the Dobsons? I know Nancy and Chris were also basically written out at that time.

I know some felt Marland also dulled John's edges. I think he did give John some great stories, as well as some for Lisa, albeit to a lesser degree. He gave her a menopause story, didn't he?

I was watching a New Year's Eve episode from 1985 and Lisa told everyone she had all kinds of parties to go to. Then when she called Bob and Kim at one of her big parties, the camera pulled back to reveal she was all alone. I thought that was a sad but not too pathetic moment, very true for her.

[EastMA2]

From what I recall, Eileen Fulton left in 1983. I think she was very surprised when they recast the role. Betsy von Furstenberg wasn't really accepted in the role and I know she wasn't too well liked at the studio. I think she insisted that all of her scenes end with a closeup of her. Eileen returned in 1984 with a big story with Whit being murdered.

Chris and Nancy were written out during this time frame and I don't believe that they returned until after Mary-Ellis Bunim left the show in 1984. Mary-Ellis was not a very popular producer with the vets. I got to visit the studio a couple of times in 1983 and watch the taping. Fascinating stuff.

Here's a quick little story - one of the times that I was at the ATWT studio - it must have been the summer of '83, I believe, and I was in the green room there. Scott Bryce was in the green room also eating his lunch. It was a late lunch because General Hospital was on the tv in the green room and ironically, Scott's father, Ed Bryce was appearing on Guiding Light at the time. I remember wondering to myself why Scott wasn't watching his father's show, especially since ATWT is a CBS show as well but the green room was tuned to ABC.

[DRW50]

Thanks. Those are fascinating stories. That stuff about the closeup is crazy. I can't believe a new actor on the show would demand that.

[soapfan770]

I also know Fulton had a fallout with Bunim. Bunim wanted near complete emphasis on younger characters and actually wanted to move ATWT production to LA at one point, not too sure how well that would have go over. The same thing had happened with both Helen Wagner and Don McLaughlin departures in 1981 as Bob and Tom really became the only Hughes family members on the show. Never heard of problems with Betsy von Furstenberg off-screen. On-screen she just wasn't Lisa. Furstenberg if I recall right had been a notable Broadway star. Fulton's re-introduction was great--Lisa came home from a vacation only to find herself standing over her hubsband's dead body!

Bunim remains controversial to this day. Some use to complain her era were the dark ages of the show and there of course is justification behind these complaints as her visions for the show didn't often fit. On the other hand I do feel that by '83/'84 she had managed to re-freshen the show particularly after being stale in the late 70s.

[DRW50]

Is it true that Eileen didn't get along with the actor who played Whit?

I know dumping vets was already a trend in the early 80s. It's interesting that she wanted to focus on the younger set; aside from Steve, Betsy, and Craig, did they have any strong characters in that set at the time? I thought Annie and Dee had been recast multiple times or were on their way out, and I didn't know that Frannie, Marcy, or the McColls were that popular.

I guess it's a good thing that the show didn't move too fully towards the younger set, since Meg Ryan left in mid-1984 anyway.

Did Bunim do a lot of location shoots like she did at SFT?

Since I've never seen her ATWT work I can't really judge. I did like her early Real World work, and the first season of Starting Over, which fell apart after her passing.

So she was there during the Steve/Betsy wedding that got the big ratings?

[MichaelGL]

My guess is yes. Didn't SFT venture to Hong Kong or some country across the sea under Bunim?

I think for SFT and ATWT, location shoots were a signature of Bunim's, that and a youth oriented cast. I'm surprised GH didn't bring her on as a producer of some kind.

[Mitch]

I am so embarrased that I remember this stuff, as I can't remember family members birthdays.

While I do feel that Marland made many of his male characters, no other word to use it "pussies," once they found "love," I do think that John's softening was realistic and actually needed...he went from mortal enemy to the Hughes and the Stewarts to more of their foil, he would be invited and be a part of the "family," ( I loved how Marland would have a character mention "the family," and you knew they were part of the extended Hughes family) but he was always on the outside. He did give Lisa the menopause story.

Fulton did leave for a time in 83..by that time Lisa was reduced to a fluttering busy body saying ditzy things. von Furstenberg replaced Fulton in 1981 (?) for a time when Fulton was sick, and Fulton actually suggested they use her. Her Lisa sounded like Fulton's but was "to the manor born," and a bit of a snob and stiff.

Helen Wagner chose to leave as they only offered her a contract of one day a week. This was before Bunim when Fred Bartholomue (former child star from MGM days) was the exec and the Dobsons were the writers. The Dobsons seemed to HATE the Hugheses and Nancy in particular in favor of the Stewards (never liked the Stewarts David and Ellen were such bores who looked like they had hemoroids all the time.) Anyway, I was in high school and I grew up ATWT and Nancy and Chris in the kitchen and it felt weird even to my 15 year old self that she wasnt around. She left one week before ATWT's 25th anniversary party. Chris stayed on contract for a few years, was bumped to recurring and was on the show when Wagner returned and up to his death.

Fulton has a good story about Bunim in her book. She never mentioned her name, she just has a story where she is sipping wine in her office (okay, a dream job being producer of a soap I grew up watching and drinking wine at work!!!) and leaning back in her chair going on and on about how she was going to phase out the older characters while empahsising the youngers until she could get rid of them and nobody would notice. Fulton was like "Uh, I am one of the older people!"

Bunim did reengerize the show but as with all soap execs, writers she was too in love with her own vision," to stop before she ripped the show apart. She did however, talk Fulton into coming back and to her credit, kept Ellen and David and Bob with story.