Alvin is and always will be very passionate about the show.

It's sad that at the end of the day out thoughts mean nothing for this show.

I love how passionate he is about the show. I think it's wonderful. But all of these "Do you see? Do you see?! DO YOU SEE?!" posts are exhausting. WE SEE! We have four Y&R threads and hundreds of posts. Believe me. WE SEE!

Of course, Sylph is the King of being misunderstood.

I love how passionate he is about the show. I think it's wonderful. But all of these "Do you see? Do you see?! DO YOU SEE?!" posts are exhausting. WE SEE! We have four Y&R threads and hundreds of posts. Believe me. WE SEE!

But we don't see that you see. Whereas you say you aren't challenging anything Alvin says, it doesn't seem that way. I'm not trying to start a war here. But saying "Hogan has wonderful ideas" goes against everything that surrounds you. You who watched his ATWT, DOOL and now Y&R. That statement is completely false.

Another way of handling it would be a la Cat: I love MAB, she said. Did anyone shoot her? Nope. And no one will. Just be clear. Say: I love Hogan, I think he's mega fabulous and the world will be at peace.

I don't mean to come off like I'm attacking you or anyone else, I was just replying to your post, as I've replied to almost everyone else in this thread.

Mark and I have had similar scenarios where it seemed like we were attacking one another's posts, when we weren't in the past.

Of course, Sylph is the King of being misunderstood.

My post went off into discussion about the show itself, so while it was a response to something you said, it was also a rant and something fitting for this thread. Sorry if it felt like an attack.

All good, my friend. I promise, sometimes I'm just making other observations about the show that aren't meant to imply "you're wrong". That's definitely not my M.O. Hope my original post about Sheffer wasn't trying to imply he was some grand misunderstood genius (You know. Like Sylph, as you said. ). I don't think that at all. Just that he's a good idea/plot guy the show desperately needed last August. But he needed somebody (preferably himself, but I'll take anybody else too) to say "You did this at another show and it failed", or "That's too out there for the Y&R audience".

I do think Hogan seems to have good plots/ideas. But its the way he forces characters to change to fit his plots.

He would be great on a say, 24 type of show.

I love how passionate he is about the show. I think it's wonderful. But all of these "Do you see? Do you see?! DO YOU SEE?!" posts are exhausting. WE SEE! We have four Y&R threads and hundreds of posts. Believe me. WE SEE!

Hey, you walked right into that by bringing up something (even if you agreed with it) I said in a thread where I and many others feel right at home in.

A lot of it bears repeating because the same discussions come up time and time again. As long as fans are unhappy with the show and those responsible for crafting its creative vision, I think that's the way it's going to be.

I wasn't attacking you, but the sadness of see what this show has deteriorated into with this writing regime has caused a lot of very passionate posts.

But we don't see that you see. Whereas you say you aren't challenging anything Alvin says, it doesn't seem that way. I'm not trying to start a war here. But saying "Hogan has wonderful ideas" goes against everything that surrounds you. You who watched his ATWT, DOOL and now Y&R. That statement is completely false.

Another way of handling it would be a la Cat: I love MAB, she said. Did anyone shoot her? Nope. And no one will. Just be clear. Say: I love Hogan, I think he's mega fabulous and the world will be at peace.

I don't love Hogan. I was making an observation that he is a man execs hire when they're lacking plot. Lacking paper. He does not excel in character or the art of soap. Which is why the Y&R marriage of MAB and HS should work in theory, since her early 2008 stuff was so character-driven. Sadly, it swung too far the other way.

I do think Hogan seems to have good plots/ideas. But its the way he forces characters to change to fit his plots.

He would be great on a say, 24 type of show.

Exactly. Thanks, JP!

Hope my original post about Sheffer wasn't trying to imply he was some grand misunderstood genius (You know. Like Sylph, as you said. ).

Offenses, offenses everywhere. Alvin never said that I'm a maniacal, self-deluded idiot who thinks is the grand misunderstood genius.

Edited October 14, 200916 yr by Sylph

And we're back to un-fun.

Seriously, what is it about the Y&R threads that breeds this? It's so disappointing. It's a shame, because this used to be a great place to "hang" on the web.

Oh well. Thanks for understanding what I was saying, Alvin. I appreciate it.

Completely predictable again. "Back to un-fun."

You first start something, not apologize or explain yourself if you offended him/her, then go all "I'm going back to lurkdom" with all the minions begging you to return. I think you're an extremely valuable asset to this board, but if Alvin's "same" kind of posts annoy you, some find "back to lurkdom" posts annoying too.

I think this clip was the point many of us realized that Y&R had hit rock bottom with this regime, and ever since then, the show hasn't been the same, and continues to get more illogical and absurd. Little problems end up becoming big problems.

Seriously, the chipmunk crap was more Harmony than Genoa City....

Edited October 14, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

It was dumb and stupid. Just a few days before that they had Roscoe Born there, who could have easily appeared in Kevin's hallucinations -- but NO, Hogie wanted to attach an animal head... stupid, stupid, stupid. Anyway, that's where it all started to crumble. The Terroni and Adam completely changing his personality plus Bierdz's return is what ended up being the main reason I quit.

Edited October 14, 200916 yr by dmarex

Offenses, offenses everywhere. Alvin never said that I'm a maniacal, self-deluded idiot who thinks is the grand misunderstood genius.

Baby, if I knew you were this hard up for it I'd've gotten us a private PM chat months ago.

It was dumb and stupid. Just a few days before that they had Roscoe Born there, who could have easily appeared in Kevin's hallucinations -- but NO, Hogie wanted to attach an animal head... stupid, stupid, stupid. Anyway, that's where it all started to crumble. The Terroni and Adam completely changing his personality plus Bierdz's return is what ended up being the main reason I quit.

First I laughed my ass off at your phrasing of this. I'm still giggling.

And then I began to weep. If Born had played Kevin's "inner demon", how much cooler would that have been?

I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop with P3.

Poor Jess Walton. 4 eps in August, 4 eps in September, and still not a single appearance in October.

I don't know what's worse: Jill not appearing, or Jill appearing as a worthless version of herself.

They know that the longer they keep this up, the more viewers won't care when Jill leaves.

It's just pathetic. They have taken nearly everything away from Jill. To think that they brought back the son who was such a cornerstone of her existence, and she barely interacts with him. She should have more story now than she had in years, and yet we saw more of her when her storyline was Warton doing a striptease.