Y&R: Episodes discussion., Week of July 6

[lmfan]

I honestly think there were a few reasons. One because Katherine is obviously her favorite character. She must be a big fan of Thom Bierdz, but I don't think Nina or Philip are going to be on for the long term. I think their main job will be to usher in the real new star of the family, Philip IV. That's why TB was likely only signed for 6 mos. I would like Tricia to stay around , but if they can't write for the 40 plus Lauren, I doubt they will write any romance for 40 yr old Nina. Maybe she will be like Tracy Abbott who pops in once in awhile and maybe Tricia doesn't want to move from Tennessee. It would be nice to read an interview with her.

As for dePhiliping Cane, I don't know. They could have easily done that without going to these extremes of storytelling and what MAB did with the original Philip story is just as bad as what LML did. They were both contrived stories full of holes. I have no doubt Cane will stick around and we will have to watch Lily and Cane work their way back to each other. Oh joy.

Nina could have found out Cane was a fake without Philip III becoming a coward who abandoned his son for twenty years and then sent an imposter back to his family 17 years later to insure that his son would be stripped of his Chancellor bloodlines. What a dad. Not only is he not there for his kid, but he makes people believe he is no longer a real Chancellor. I hope his son rips into him.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Exactly.

[Soapsuds]

The producers and writers should have played hard ball with CE to stay. Maybe even told him they'd take legal action. I wish he was back in the role. The story has lost steam with me now. I think one character can really sell or not sell a story. MM is a fine actor but it's so jarring watching him play Adam. I actually cared what happened to CE's version of Adam.

[rhythmchyc]

I thought he was whiny too. But what I see in MM is that scheming side at work, in his reaction to what he did with Rafe. During the act, he seemed to be holding a lot back but when he's alone and when he was with Heather he showed vulnerability.

I like MM cause he's not trying to be a little boy. That always annoyed the hell out of me.

[MarkH]

I enjoyed this episode very much. Seeing most of the family rung around Summer felt right. Daniel and Noah have a long friendship and are/were stepbrothers, so thank goodness they finally played that beat. Others have commented on these character moments, and I very much like them too.

Having lived through Cassie's death, I must confess that the emotional impact of all of this (even if Summer is to live) is diminished by the lack of tears, the dry-eyed reasoning, the hollow recourses to faith, that lack of over-the-top music.

I find it funny that two of the characters who have most irritated viewers (Gloria, Amber) have now both been featured in episodes where they were mostly mute. Amber had little to say for most of today, and I imagine that was a wink at the viewers.

On the topic of glaring absences (Victoria, Lauren), for me it is Paul. Today's air show was a perfect demonstration of the dimunition of the Paul character. Paul's fiance's granddaughter is in a coma. Nikki has temporary custody. Why isn't Paul there to support her? Moreover, Paul's daughter has provoked part of this crisis by arresting Summer's parents. He should be playing the tension of this conflict. Unbeknownst to Paul, his sister has provoked the coma itself. Thus, the downstream emotional value to this would be if Paul were reacting now as a member of Summer's "family"--expressing outrage--so he can be even more emotionally invested when the eventual reveals happen. The absence of Paul from this story that seems to have him at its center is quite galling...and in the long run, it hurts the emotional value of the storytelling. I truly understand 'budget cuts', but this smacks of "penny-wise, pound foolish".

LMAO that Victor's driver's license has no age/birthday on it, but he is 6'1" and 160 #. Also, his last license renewal was in 2007...but the license is "regular" (no conditions). THAT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. In 2007, he was still less than a year seizure-free. He had to rely on drivers, and his license would not have been renewed; and when it was renewed, it would have had a "condition" on it.

Sharon looked great, but poor girl...having to sing.

You know...if we don't see it forever...I guess I'll be p!ssed. But today, "seeing it" would actually have ruined Nikki's being seen across the room and her reaction shot. Anyway, if there were no doubt, Adam's monologues show this clearly IS NOT a love story. It is a sick manipulation story. I don't need to see that any more explicitly.

I hope so too!

I don't know...I love Haiduk too...but for me I'm losing sight of Mary Jane's goals. She did this Summer thing to get Phyllis out of Jack's life...but that just frees Sharon up for Jack. Surely, MJ could have anticipated this outcome. So now what? How does she tie up Sharon?? I don't see what her goals are anymore.

Sometimes I almost think she is a multiple personality...but that's clearly not true (she remembers all her aspects). But she is clearly compartmentalized and dissociated. Different parts of her goals and actions are odds with one another (most notably loving and hating Jack).

I remember seeing Chancellor (at least the CEO office) in the era after Katherine's attempted suicide by jumping off the cruise liner. (What year would this have been? 1980?). Victor Newman agreed to serve as acting CEO, in part to check the uncontrolled power of Derek Thurston. I seem to remember the wall behind the CEO desk being a curtain? I seem to remember it being very dark. I'm sure there were other times we saw Chancellor (e.g., when Rex worked there), but it definitely never had a regular set that we often saw.

I'm enjoying Adam more now than before, and I find myself not remembering Engen at all. It is clear that the acting and writing have shifted a bit...he is now more self-consciously evil. When he does bad things, we see that he wants/plans to do them (e.g., with today's monologue). I do not agree this paints Adam in a corner...indeed, I think it sets up the creative writing challenge to redeem him. Jack and Victor have both been very dastardly--Michael Baldwin too--and all continue to flourish.

You know why. Money, and planned phase outs. It is clear to see who is destined for departure.

My guess is that recurring WAS her choice. (Maybe it was an MTS deal...she didn't want to lower her per-episode rate, but was willing to make it without a guarantee). And for a long time, it worked in her favor.

Now we're in cash crunch with the network license fee reduction. Like at any institution, the first people to go are those with the least firm contracts. Not using TEB saves $$$...and that seems to be the order of the day.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I do, I don't care if it's a love story or not. The fact is, sex and kissing is being written for these two characters and we aren't seeing any of it. When has this happened with straight characters in a manipulation storyline? Straight characters get seduced all the time and we always see sex/kissing. Why is this any different? Maria said the gay aspects of this storyline were going to be done with realism and equality. Is this just another one of her empty promises?

Television is a visual medium, if Maria and company wanted to tell us and not show us, then they should be writing a radio soap.

[Cashton]

Mark - Mj's goals are getting fuzzy as is MJ's sanity. She's unraveling. she's highly intelligent, but severely imbalnced. When she poisoned Summer, IT WAS NOT PLANNED OR THOUGHT OUT. So that tells me it was a heat of the moment type thing. Unlike Adam, craftily counting a lot of his schemes. I simply love how MAB is showing the trajectory of these two as they are veering so dangerously close to falling apart. Making more and more desperate decisions.

The wisdom of MJ poisoning Summer is not to be debated. There is none. She would probably be giving Jack a much needed shoulder to cry on if she hadn't poisoned Summer. But...didn't we all sort of assume that if Nick and Sharon got back together, that Jack would go with Phyllis somehow? She saw that connection and reacted - crazily! Like a crazy woman does.

question though - do you all think Mary Jane is basically a good person who's pretty messed up that can be healed through therapy and love? Or do you think she's a sinister woman that is just plain evil and psycho beyond the point of no return?

[Y&RWorldTurner]

But doesn't she know that type of hold Sharon has on Jack and how he drops everything to run to save that woman? If hurting Summer was her way to keep Phyllis away from Jack and reuniting Phyllis and Nick, how does that solve the problem of Sharon in relation to Jack? Sharon is and has been a much bigger threat to her in regards to Jack than Phyllis is.

[DeeeDee]

Daniel needs to die with Cane, Gloria, Kevin, Jeff & Amber.

[Cashton]

My interpretation was that in that moment that she saw Jack and Phyllis moving closer, Phyllis leaning on Jack - she got a rage. And anything she could do to stop it she would. Don't forget - MJ really liked Phyllis. She was her friend and she was leaning on PHyll for support then she saw Jack and PHyll getting nasty.

i don't think she thought about the long-term consequences. And her plan now seems to be to frame Sharon for stealing again. She said it - she's not going to let those sluts take Jack away. So they're like a two headed monster.

[soapydoc]

None of it makes any sense. At this point, I sort of feel the writers sat around a table to figure out how Patty Jane's craziness could best benefit their plot driven mess of a story. It's akin to Sharon's klepto/slutty behavior. How can they use a certain character's malfunction to move stories in various directions while blaming the character and not having to make much sense? And while no one is looking let's make Sharon's baby due the exact same day as Ashley's even though Ashely was pregnant a full two months before Sharon. No one will notice because they're trying to figure out what the hell Patty Jane is up to.

[Soapsuds]

I'd keep Daniel but the rest can go.

[lmfan]

It's all plot driven nonsense that most of us can figure out months before it happens. It makes no sense for Sharon to say Jack is the father, but it allows them to have Nick "work on" and "recommit" his marriage to Phyllis yet again and then in a few months Nick can bounce back to Sharon and a few months after that he can bounce back to Phyllis again because the writers think that playing these fan bases against each other is daytime gold. They don't seem to get that people were excited to have Jack and Phyllis showing signs of being free from this quad so they need to reset this story and set up a baby switch between a hysterical pregnant fifty year old woman so that the baby's grandfather will be raising his son's child. I bet the bloodtest will show that te baby is related to Victor and that's all they need.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Pretty much.

This is crappy writing that has no sound reasoning behind it.

[MarkH]

Okay, you have clarified my thinking. Like Gloria, MJ is now largely acting on reckless impulse. That works for me. It is a mark of her loss of control.

You asked what I think about Patty. (Let's call her by her real name, now). I know what she WAS. She was a sweet innocent who fell for the wrong guy (rich, handsome, sophisticated, worldly, took her away from her working class home). When she realized she'd been duped, she snapped. She couldn't face the damage she had done. She seemed to heal--kind of--and so when she left we believed she was basically good. I really have no clue, now. The purposeful poisoning of Summer--for whom, even now, she expresses no real remorse---unfortunate but it had to be done...that seems to be a pretty profound turning point.