Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted July 10, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 I think she thinks if the show does more subtle and respectful storytelling, ratings will tumble again. However, there is no evidence for this, as Y&R was tying its record lows in the ratings just a month ago with this shock and awe type storytelling she and her henchmen seem fond of. I don't think she comprehends the type of damage this type of storytelling is doing to the show and its image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bellcurve Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 Not only for her reputation within the arts but also the political arena as well(yep, I'll use the word). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brimike Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 I'm so glad somebnody brought this up, because I've been dying to ever since I first heard the rumblings. Look, I think I could forgive it and probably not think twice about it from any other head writer. But the fact that HS is even on this team, and didn't chime in during the pitch meeting and say "I did a similar story on Days and it totally blew up in my face". I can forgive a writer (more easily than others) for their first misstep, especially if it's coming from somebody completely new to the genre.) the fist time - bnt then when they make the same mistakes all over again at a different show?! I can't accept that. And I'm saying this as a Hogan FAN. But sorry, Hoag - I can't back you on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 It's strange that he has done this on three consecutive soaps and is rarely ever called out by anyone in the soap press. Back in the 90s, when ABC Daytime was mostly produced and written by women, and the network executive was a woman, violence and suffering brought against female characters was sky-high. AMC in 1997 was just constant assaults against women. I couldn't believe at the time how much misogyny was being endorsed by women who had to face all kinds of sexism and obstacles to get where they were. Now, viewers have either tuned out or become used to this. I think people in power have convinced themselves the audience is full of fools and regressives and will only tolerate the lowest common denominator. They are terrified of Aunt Erlene in Podunk tuning out, not realizing that she already switched to Law & Order reruns 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 Well, sigh! If this is true, and happened anywhere near what you're suggesting, then the power dynamics on the writing team confuse me. Wasn't there a quote a few weeks ago where Maria said she thought she was a good debater, and that helped her be a writer, because she could see all perspectives? (Where am I remembering that from?). Anyway, my point is that when something like Indecent Proposal gets suggested, isn't it awful that there aren't counter-voices that are freely listened to who can argue "this is a bad idea"? The problem is this vile twist, if it happens, is not even consistent with who these characters were on B&B. Deacon was vile...but never a rapist. I'm just not understanding who is driving the boat in these pitch meetings. I know about Ejami. But who did this happen to over at ATWT?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted July 10, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 I think it's obvious MAB liked the idea or pitched it herself, or else it wouldn't be happening on this show. She is the one with the Co-EP credit after all and she is supposed to be the main HW. She had the authority to reject this storyline and she didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 I was speaking more about his general hostility to women in his writing. I don't remember if he did this at ATWT. Probably not. There was a he said/she said with Jessica and Marshall Travers. I know this is old news, but I was wondering if anyone could tell me the last time (roughly) Mamie, John Silva, Gina, and Miguel appeared on the show? I know Miguel had an exit (offcamera), but I was wondering what the last scenes for the others were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted July 10, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 I don't remember the final scenes of most of them off the top of my head, but Gina was on earlier this year at the GCAC. It was during Kevin's whole Stockholm Syndrome mess. She told a TV reported what a horrible person Kevin is and how he burnt down her old restaurant and how he always gets off the hook because he has a hot shot brother for a lawyer that twists the law to free his relatives. Jack F. Smith got rid of all of these small recurring characters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 That's too bad, I thought they helped make Y&R unique. I guess the show probably can't afford them now. I skipped most of the Kevin story with the chipmunk so I missed Gina. Did Lynne have an exit? And, an even more ridiculous question. I was reading the 25th Anniversary book for the first time in a while and they said Prentiss Industries was still around (this was in 1997). Have they mentioned Prentiss in any years since Lance and Lucas left town? I wonder if they may eventually consider bringing some of the Prentisses on the show, the younger characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lovely_m Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 You know what's sad about that, on another message board most posters were saying that she should get over it. Their attitude was "who cares who Kevin hurt he had a crappy childhood." I read that she left town and got married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cara mia Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 I'm really upset at the Deacon/Amber spoiler. So upset I'm seriously considering taking a long break from the show. And I don't even like Amber! She annoys me and I want her off the show, and yet this spoiler is hitting me in the stomach. I don't know why this, out of all the things on the show, is what is getting to me but it is. I don't think I'm prude or especially politically correct. Gone with the Wind is one of my favorite movies and I give a Art/Entertainment a wide scope. This just seems like overkill in the context of the other misogyny on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted July 10, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 It's totally unnecessary and is overkill. Couldn't they just have had Deacon blackmail Amber into doing something other than sex for him in exchange for Daniel's freedom? Why does everything on this show have to go down to the path of no return and utter vileness? The sad thing is, we have a woman, Maria Arena Bell, going to the press freely claiming that this show is her "show" and her "vision." If this is what she thinks is entertainment, I personally don't want to know what the hell is going on in her head. Why does this show hate women so much? I would understand it if one or two storylines had instances were women were weak or victimized, but when that seems to be apart of every storyline in some way, it's totally off-putting and totally unacceptable. The target audience for soaps is still women, I know Y&R also has a large male following, but the most sought after demos are the female demos. Is this what they think will sell and attack more women to their show? This is really crazy, and it makes me hate the show ever more than I do right now. Maria Arena Bell should know that as a woman that this is taking it a bit too far and how the women on her show come off with these current storylines on this show isn't flattering and it isn't a positive portrayal of being a strong woman. Hogan Sheffer should have already learned his lesson after the Sami/EJ debacle on DAYS. There is NO excuse for storytelling like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 I can understand your reaction. It's overkill, and also very tone deaf. Who decided the show did not have enough violence against women? This should not be the default mode for every storyline. And it's dropped in so casually that I will be surprised if there is any meaningful followup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cara mia Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 I am trying to understand the thinking behind this. And like I said, I can't stand Amber! I'm not a saint, I'm not politically correct. I do understand that there's an audience for dark, even very twisted, romances. Yet THIS is just too much! We already have Sharon turned into a nympho/klepto cause she can't have Nick, we have Phyllis pathetically chasing Nick, we have MJ literally crazy with love for Jack, we have all the disgusting things Adam has done to Ashley, we have Jill being forced back to the nail salon, etc. Plenty of women being degraded or degrading themselves. Even though I can't stand Amber, she was supposed to be one of the few bright lights on the show, a young woman who turned her life around and was EMPOWERED by the example of Katherine Chancellor. Maybe if it were Chloe or Sharon this were happening to, I could more easily deal with it. Yet to say Katherine's protege is just TOO MUCH. If Amber can't stand strong on this show, which woman can? -- Unrelated issue, I liked MM's interviews. He seems like a smart, nice guy. I don't agree, however, in the argument that showing less is more effective. IMO, the cutting away from Rafe/Adam kissing came off as Y&R presenting gay relations as so shameful they could not even show us a kiss. If showing less were a more effective way of telling story, then why aren't all the het romances off-screen? Why not just have us imagine Nick & Phyllis or Cane & Chloe? Remember, we saw what Chloe did to Cane and what Amber did to Cane. It was the exact same thing that Adam is doing to Rafe. Y&R is not a novel, it's a tv show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 You folks are making me nuts. Because I am the only person on the planet who likes Amber, it's killing me. I don't want to see this happen to her. Ugh ugh ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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