Y&R: Potpourri Thread

[MarkH]

Bierdz as a man is natural and animated. I have always thought this. I wonder why he is being restrained on set.

Look at today's clip as evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IufEOKH4X5M

[Cat]

Bellcurve, that was my point. Stereotypical and ignorant as it may sound, THIS is what MAB and some of TPTB are thinking when the idea of a "gay love scene" is being pitched to them. How are we going to show that? How can we show that? This is what engenders a lot of misunderstanding and intolerence about the male gay lifestyle. Because people assume that this is "the" gay sex act. And that is *all* it is.

I know gay men can assume more sexual positions than that. I also know that gay men are a LOT more rounded as human beings than the preachy cardboard cutouts we have gotten in Daytime over the years. I'm just saying that this is a conservative genre, pigeonholed by its timeslot, and even something as intimate and visually beautiful like two men tenderly nuzzling amid the glow of a dozen candles is not going to make it on Y&R's screen. I'm not trying to be "ignorant" and mean about it. Daytime's hands are tied because the networks subscribe to old-fashioned, out-dated "family-friendly" rules about what can be shown. Y&R is trying to have it both ways with the Yay! Check us out, gay viewers! marketing and the "everything offscreen" rule they have obviously laid down on-set. But I honestly think they view the marketing part as way more important and significant because it costs $$$ to build that sort of buzz. They view it as proof that Y&R is boldly going where other soaps fear to tread (ex: GL pretending that Otalia was only going to be about a "touching friendship" when asked by the press about it) -- and promoting the SL as one which features a gay character being exploited by a maybe gaybe villain. It's not progressive or meant to be making a statement about "Gay Lifestyle Today." It's a gothicky and, yes, gimmicky SL on a soap and they are hoping to get some gay viewers into it by appealing to the soapy aspect of it all.

Listen, when OLTL showcased a gay serial killer a few years back, it brought in viewers at the time -- including many gay viewers who wanted to see what the fuss was about. It was a cheap and cynical stunt, yes. But I also remember reading a ton of posts on SON about how proud a lot of you guys were about OLTL surpassing GH in the ratings for the first time in ages! And how gay viewers were tuning in! It seemed to be a real badge of honor. So what is good for the goose (i.e.: TPTB in that case) also seemed to benefit some of the OLTL fans who wanted more exposure for their show and argued that OLTL was "crossing boundaries" etc.

I don't understand why the director cut just before their lips touched to Nikki giving her face. I thought it was cowardly and ambiguous, too. In my defense, I have only just watched that episode in the last two hours -- before I wrote my initial post from which you are quoting.

Why should every SL that involves a gay character be "The Gay SL"? Adam is using Rafe! He is seducing him to keep him on his side! Soaps have recycled this plot for years! Strictly IMHO, I don't see it as the Big Gay SL that people keep referring to it as. I see it as just another SL where a villain plays on somebody's attraction to him to get what he wants. And no, I don't have a problem with gays or gay SLs at all, and I never have. That's just how I see it.

Bwah! Maybe Rawky can paint his soulmate Waif and give Kay the painting as a parting gift.

[MarkH]

Muhney suggests the director cut away, and the script specified thus, to leave open ambiguity. Was either one of them *into* the kiss? We're not supposed to know...

Maybe that's a cheat...I fully acknowledge that I'm sure there is some sense of repeating 1977 and losing a RAFT of viewers again. It is a valid concern. I just saw a poll today (I forget where) in which 20% of respondents said -- of gay storylines -- "I don't need to SEE that!" And anti-gay marriage amendments suggest there is a substantial plurality of persons -- including Y&R viewers -- for whom this whole area causes discomfort. I am not confrontational in my life...and I don't mind easing into these things with kid gloves.

But if the cut-aways are, for now, a dramatic device to raise questions...no problem with that for now. Let's FACE it...yesterday (for me) the money shot was Nikki's face. It was in anticipation of Nikki's face that I eagerly watched the whole episode. I knew Nikki's face was coming...and I couldn't wait to see it. I didn't care much about stubble-meet-stubble...and I doubt most of the viewers did. It was all about Nikki.

(Just as the signature moment of the Cameron Kirsten mystery was Nikki, in fur, in the sewers of Genoa City).

I like a good M2M love scene as much as the next person, but I'm not watching, specifically, Adam and Rafe for that. I think Y&R will deliver such a love scene, and that it will push the envelope for daytime, maybe 5 months from now. But that will be between Rafe and someone else...not Adam.

It's really important that we not confuse THIS story with the story Maria "promised". Bill Bell was the only guy in daytime to show bare asses. His daughter in law will likely push the envelope here...but let's not ruin this by creating some artificial rush that confuses the purpose of the Adam story. Muhney tells us that, NARRATIVELY, the ambiguity of the Rafe-Adam kisses is intentional. 'Nuff said. Let's watch.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

The same could be said for anyone currently on this show's "symphony."

I forgot Maria Arena Bell, Hogan Sheffer, and Paul Rauch all have such glorious track records....

The fact being, Y&R needs a strong leader who can both balance the show's budget and pare down the canvas. We've seen over a year now, that's NOT anyone on this current creative team.

But then again, if she someone like JFP does end up joining Y&R, you'll do nothing but rationalize why he/she is there and make excuses for his/her mistakes. Sorry, Mark, but it's true. You're the last person to look at this objectively.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

A balance of powers need to happen at Y&R. Unless you're William J. Bell, you shouldn't have that much power at one show. Maria must be getting drunk off her power right now and thinking her sh!t don't stink. Judging by how confident she comes off in interviews, I really do believe she believes that the show is in perfect condition right now, when it's not. I and many simply do not enjoy her creative vision, her lack of experience, her [poor] storytelling, and her overall contributions to this show.

We don't know that. Sony could stage some type of coup or CBS could demand greater influence, especially in these economic times.

I really do hold out faith that Y&R will have better writers and producers in charge soon enough that will better be able to handle it and should the show end in a few years, take it out on a high note. I have faith that a creative change will happen behind the scenes at this show!

[MarkH]

I don't claim to be objective. By the way, I agree Hamner, Sheffer and Rauch could all reasonably be called show killers. MAB hasn't yet earned that label, just because she has no experience yet.

I also agree about the need to pare the canvas.

The only thing I don't agree with is that JFP should do it. I'd ask for Shaughnessy or Scott before I asked for JFP. They have experience, they are familiar with the show, and I don't think I've ever heard that they damaged their shows. Yes, something went awry with Scott at DOOL...but Corday also sent him a thank you gift when DOOL got the latest Emmy noms.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Lack of experience you're heading your family's business and American's #1 daytime drama is a HUGE thing. It means that this show is being handled with utter incompetence. This is a woman who admitted to not being a soap fan, not keeping up with daytime when she left, and a woman who has very little training in her field. Why more do I have to add?

Scott had trouble with re-writing HW's work on TWO different shows. Why do you think Kay Alden hated him so much? You should search one of SOAPSFOREVER posts where he talked about the Scott/Alden situations at Y&R.

Shaughnessy is happy directing one or two episodes at B&B a month and he has outside interests like his voice-over work. Scott's name is tarnished in the industry, I doubt you'll be seeing in this industry again.

Look, I'm not calling for JFP to be drunk off her power and run crazy at this show. I'm saying she should be be PAIRED with a STRONG HEAD WRITER. Jill can focus on the cost-cutting, since it's what she does best, and the Head Writer can focus on making sure this show is being successfully plotted and executed. Jill's great production values would help, and she would trim down the huge cast.

Jill also has a much better track-record at the Emmy's, if Emmy noms is what you're concerned about.

I'm not even saying Jill should actually be hired, but someone with her cast and cost cutting expertise...

[MarkH]

Hmm. Okay. That would be an interesting read. I will look for that.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Mark, as you've said before, the growing fan dissatisfaction with this show and is current writing regime online alone has been astounding, especially amongst longtime fan. Something must be going terribly wrong with this regime, and the problems should be attempted to be repaired sooner, rather than later. As when a CEO of major company is incompetent or caught up in scandal, confidence and stocks plummets. The same is happening to Y&R with this current creative team and management, at least, IMO.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I posted this in the main episode thread, but it should be posted here too....

I can't believe Maria and Company are still trying to make this Silver Chipmunk thing happen. LOL! If this doesn't speak volumes about how much this show has lost touch with its audience, I don't know what does. If episodes are written 3-4 months in advance, they should have already known what an utter disaster the Silver Chipmunk stuff was and how poorly received it was from the beginning.

[MarkH]

Rikaart warned us about the Chipmunk in yesterday's NB interview.

I do believe they have totally lost sight of it. While "Kitty" seems to be a universal success....SC is not so much. I also wish they would let it go because, at this point, I think it is damaging to the show/characters.

I keep worrying it will end up on The Soup (if it hasn't already...it has...hasn't it???).

[Y&RWorldTurner]

It made both The Soup and VH1's Best Week Ever already, it marked Y&R's FIRST time on both shows, I believe.

Damn, this show really isn't in-tune with its audience anymore, they need to step away from this ridiculous cartoon stuff, and yeah, Maria, Hogan, and Scott all need to be fired.

I don't think they realize how poorly received it is and thus they keep forcing it on their audience. They might think it adds humour or depth to Kevin's situation, but its so ridiculous that it doesn't do the show any good.

[DRW50]

I certainly have had angry moments while watching JFP shows. Especially OLTL. The main reason I no longer resist the idea of her being at Y&R is because many of the reasons I fear her as an EP are already at this show. Misuse of vets. Misogyny. A very dark tone. Playing favorites. The strengths Rauch was supposed to bring, like increased production values (Sharon and Amber, among others, have never looked worse), or an increased quality of acting (the same vets who care are doing standout work, the same vets who don't care are still phoning it in, and many of the new cast members are lost at sea), have not materialized. And all of my worst fears about Hogan Sheffer have materialized.

If you've already got Freddie Kruger and Jason Voorhies, then you start to wonder if Michael Myers would be that bad.

I don't think they care about appealing to gay viewers. They don't hate us, but they don't care. This story seems to be about shocking people. The Adam/Rafe story has been carefully tailored to minimize anything which involves homosexuality, all the way down to making sure Rafe, the one who is gay, has no point of view. The Phillip story is something which some gay men can identify with, but it is very rushed and unfortunately the rewrites and all the DNA confusion overshadows the message.

Branco seems to be more interested in being a mouthpiece for the show than in a gay perspective. He also tends to go along with stories that have bad messages in terms of gay characters (the Zeese/Rianca/whatever fiasco on AMC, and now this with Rafe/Adam) until suddenly he realizes how they aren't what he thought they would be, and suddenly he turns against them. Or, as with Yani Gellman, turns against the person who is easiest to blame.

The gay men I knew through watching Y&R enjoyed the strong female characters, the camp, the hot guys who went around without shirts or who had tight jeans on. And most of that is gone now. This is a generalization, and I know not all gay men watch a show for one reason, but I'm just saying that the Y&R of, say, the era of Brad Carlton locked in a cage by his crazy ex, that probably had more appeal than something like Adam/Rafe, which all feels like something from Celluloid Closet.

[bellcurve]

Y&R made The Soup?! Holy Hell Maria, wake the f*#k up, girlfriend!

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Steven Kent needs to wake the f*#k up and stage that coup on Sony's behalf!