Y&R: Potpourri Thread

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I don't get the business decision that went into making this woman the guiding creative force behind this show anyway. This was a woman who wrote a few scripts for B&B, left daytime for 20 years and said herself that she wasn't a regular viewer of soaps during that time, and she has ABSOLUTELY NO Head Writing experience or training. Most of us already believe she's simply there because she's the wife of the boss, and then we observed flaws in her writing that have been there since the beginning and continue to plague the show. We're not impressed and we believe this show DESERVES A LOT BETTER.

The Bell's showed their incompetence when they assisted Latham in the changes she wanted to make. I'll never forget that Variety article where Maria's husband praised Latham and talked about helping her carry out many of the changes she made to this show.

You can't put someone with little writing and producing experience in charge of the nation's #1 soap and not expect for there to be major problems. I just don't get it. I fully believe Maria should have only been HW for this show during the strike, and then an immediate search should have been started to find a real experience storyteller to place in charge of this show. Problems might still be there, but at least we can't say "inexperience" was the main reason for why the show is the way it is.

Scott Hamner was Latham's right hand man and Latham bragged endlessly about it, Maria Arena Bell often talks about washing this show of what LML gave to it, yet she KEEPS one LML's closest professional friend as one of her HW's? What's the sense in that?

I won't even get into the storytelling reputation that Hogan Sheffer has because they're so well known.

Who thought that pairing THREE very problematic and different writers would make for a super strong show? I do not get it. I perceive this show to be plagued by too many visions that don't know exactly how to connect. This show is so disjointed and messy to me, that I blame it it on its THREE HW's, but Maria gets most of my blame since she's also the Co-EP of the show and the wife of the boss.

[Greg's GL]

IA with these portions of your post. I always wondered why Hamner was spared when the LML era ended. Why not replace him with Esser or Labine? Since I've never been a loyal viewer of a show that Sheffer was HW, I was ambivalent about him. Now that he's been Co-HW these several months, and Carl's compelling posts, I'm starting to change my mind about this man.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

For this show get a strong vision and storyteller, I believe Maria, Hogan, and Scott all need to go.

There needs to be en active search for a writer with a singular strong vision that can handle the tasks of writing for this show and respects the classical roots of this show and wants to honour that, not "comtemporize" too much in the sense that it turns many fans off.

Maybe Maria can keep her Co-EP credit, but the writing duties of this show need to be goven toa real storyteller with a proven track record, or mabe an experienced writer that hasn't gotten the chance to HW yet, but one that wrote an interesting bible for TPTB.

None of this will ever happen, but one can only hope.

[MarkH]

It was like when Ford, a while back, installed a Ford as CEO of the motor company. Or when Roy Disney returned to Disney. When businesses lose their identity, and it started as a family business, this is often done. I think it meant that someone was protecting Bell interests again...not a bad thing...even now.

Well, it was Latham who said "Billy Bell" signed off on things, along with Sony and CBS. I never heard that from the Bells. DaytimeFan clearly suggested LML was installed above the heads of the Bells. But I don't know enough to debate this issue.

Okay, here's how I see it. First, the Bells NEEDED to retain control. Second, the show markedly improved immediately after the strike. So I think there was some sense of keeping the momentum going. Third, I think folks (esp. at Sony) believe in Hogan. As recently as last week, Michael Logan credited Ed Scott for the creative rennaissance at DOOL. Well, early Ed overlapped with late Hogan, right? Even Tom Casiello has written about some great moments, like John's death. So I think Sony (burdened, too, with his Days contract) helped to sell him as an experienced soap storyteller.

And, truly, Maria needed some help. By summer 2008, the show had no momentum...she had restored characters and production values, but had no sense of how to drive a story.

I think it is fair to say that Hogan got in there and INSTANTLY helped improve the interest value of the show.

The problem is that his bag of tricks included high-stakes deaths, wonky humor, etc. All of those were welcome...but maybe the show got a bit addicted to the formula of high adrenaline. They don't do GH's "Metro Court", but they do a kind of emotional version of it now.

I have written before, I think it is fear of the pre-Hogan ratings plummet that has kept them addicted to this high-octane sensationalistic plotting now. So, in a paradoxical way, if the ratings momentum is now reversed, I think it can help direct the team to dial back on some of the speed and sensationalism of things.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

It is a bad thing when the person in charge has no experience and left the industry with no intention to come back until a strike 20 years later. The inexperience is hurting the show, it might not seem that way to everyone, but it shows, and many longtime fans are leaving in droves and they blame the person in charge, who happens to have little to no experience as a HW.

LML wouldn't have named Billy Bell if he didn't sign off on it. And I remember Billy's quote about how happy he was to welcome Latham to the "family" and that her gifts as a storyteller would bring about fresh greatness for Y&R. The thing is, it didn't happen that way over time.

The Bell's could maintain control and hire an EXPERIENCED writer to guide this show. It's really not that hard, they did it for years with both Kay Alden and Jack F. Smith and though the Bell lovers will never admit it, they were still invovled with this show during the LML era.

Whatever Maria brought to the after during the strike is subjective, and really the show was aimless after the strike ended and during the strike too. Her approach might have been a huge contrast from LML, but make no mistake, there was never really any Bill Bell/Kay Alden/Jack Smith greatness to it.

We don't know what brought Hogan to this show, and probably never will. However, I never thought he was close with Steven Kent of Sony. Kent is however close friends with Jack Smith.

And honestly, she still has no sense on how to drive a story, hence the rampant pacing problems with many of the stories. Even the Kay/Marge story, which many of us loved, was going around in circles with little development by its last month and a half.

I'm not doubting that, but it was a very short-term shock, and unfortunately nearly a year later, it all seems to be crumbling

It's obviously turning many off, and as you observed its turning many off who genuinely loved this show for years, but can't stand it anymore.

The ratings seem to be getting back to where they were a year ago and it's been like that for a month, hell the show is actually LOWER in viewers when compared to last year. Internet doesn't matter, as they don't make that much money off online streaming anyway.

All three of these writers aren't a good longterm fit for this show and this show never needed that many cooks in the kitchen in the first place. A year after this team first started, we are really seeing their true colours now it seems. It's not something that's enjoyable to me.

You might be resistant to change, but I think it's time to seek it an experienced storyteller and have him or her writer a bible for this show. If it works, fine, good, hire that person. Things could probably get worse, but really, what does this she have to lose at this point? I'm willing to give an experienced SINGLE HW a shot at penning this show. Of course, this person would have to tell good stories, use their cast, and do a lot of things that this regime and the prior regime didn't give me.

[DRW50]

Hogan is good for a short burst, but the contempt his writing has towards women, the disrespect or apathy towards family and friendships, the history rewrites, the very callous, unpleasant actions of lead characters without any thought as to how the audience will react -- I think this follows him from show to show. I think they should have just used him for a few months as a consultant, but not as a main writer.

[JackPeyton]

See, i understand where you are coming from here. because there is no i am right, you are wrong for enjoying a show. Its all taste and personal. However, i dont see what you see in Y&R. I HATE this show now. HATE it. So much so that ive quit watching daily, and tune in here and now in the hopes i will find something i like (and yes, i am the one always saying if you hate a show so much quit, and fyi i did people. do you see me posting often in the daily discussion threads? nope. just when i tune in for an episode here and there now).

I see 95% of the show as sucking and nothing i like about it. The only 5% of the show i do enjoy is the acting by some faves of mine.

What turned me off of Y&R tho is this. It was the best soap on air, always. even at its worst it was still the best. Now i am a Days fan, i like "crappy" soap - soap cliches and all that. i dont require perfection to enjoy a soap - but thats what Y&R was. The Y&R i started watching was so close to perfection, all the time. Great storytelling, family and friend ties everywhere. use of history. Not rewriting everything. Not throwing characters under the bus. And when it did decide to do any of that they did so well it was OK. So i held it to a different standard. Its now fallen on the same level as all the other soaps. The show is no longer what it use to be. Its a weak version of its former self. I feel its trying to hard to be too many things. And its failing all around. Like i said, i love days, i sat through that damn island bullshit a few years back - perhaps the most insulting thing ever done to the audience. But i got through it. Something about Y&R in its current state, i cant get through it. I cant get past all the bullshit they are doing. I will even dare to say that the only soap as bad as Y&R in its current state is GH. On GH i find nothing good, nothing watchable. No hope. Y&R is not far behind it, IMHO.

Using DAYS once again, i see a lot wrong with it. Its so far from anywhere near to perfection. but it is what DAYS is. This is once again the DAYS i fell in love with. Therefore i love it, flaws and all. I over look the things i hate, because i love so much of it. But again, this just proves that all any of this has to do with is personal tastes. And thats where i dont get the hatred members here seem to be having for eachother. Disagree, argue, debate, post your thoughts and views, but respect eachothers opinions.

as for the 80 page thread of why brad bell sucks, they dont have a strong passionate fanbase here. But go to most B&B boards, thats a theme in 90% of the threads. This isnt Y&R exclusive here tho. A year ago when OLTL fell we had the same thing. before that DAYS and GH had one too. There is one right now for ATWT.

EXACTLY! Id also like to point out that those three shows have the most vocal audiance. Perhaps thats why...

But you are more than welcome into the days thread to post why you hate it. I know i wont care, hell i would prob enjoy it, lol. But i dont see Sylph, Alvin, etc.. giving Y&R fans hell for enjoying it. They are not. They are posting why they are not, just like you and others post why you do.

I think everyone seen the writing on the walls; that doesnt mean people have to accept the crap they are seeing now.

WORD!

YES! To all of this!

Hogan should never tell another rape story again after ATWT & Days...

[lmfan]

Maybe it is because we expect more from Y&R and have been led to believe that this regime was about honoring Bill Bell and his vision and now the rug has been pulled from under us.

[MarkH]

That really is the most succinct, accurate statement about all this. "Rug pulled" is especially good, because I think it means "sudden"...and truly, around the time of Clint becoming a "cartoon villain" and the silver chipmunk...that's when there was a noteworthy transition. Several of us commented then how ABRUPTLY things seemed to change...and we moved into this current high-drama, twist-legacy-characters, drive story with implausible plot twists.

I'm personally very hopeful that, with widespread feedback, our next transition will be back into something more emotional, relationship driven, character-enhancing. With all the damage being done now to Adam, Mary Jane, P3, the Quad...the next arc for all these folks should be "truth and reconciliation". And that will be worthwhile!

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I posted this in the spoiler thread under the Phillip III topic, but I feel it must be posted here too.

This quote from Thom Bierdz makes me roll my eyes. So, it's only important to come back as gay, regardless of the damage done to your character by neglecting his infant son, the rest of his family, and undoing a death that was perhaps one of the most iconic moments in this show history?

Does he honestly think that the damage this story is doing to his character because of his sexuality is a positive and honest portrayal of being gay in America? I know suicide rates are high for gay teens and all of that, but how many people FAKE their deaths simply because they're gay and basically throw away everyone that loves them? This is a shameful story that's both degrading and pisses on this show's history.

Maria, you shouldn't have called Thom and accepted this inane idea for a storyline, but then again, Maria doesn't appear to know what a good and respectful storyline is anyway.

http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/soaps/the-gays-of-summer-1584.html

Oh friggin' please! So millions of straight people fake their deaths and neglect their families because they're straight each year? And how is he not a cartoon, when he not only faked his death, but he sent an impostor to take his place in his former family, gave the impostor his frozen blood to take with him, and continues to keep tabs on the family he neglected years ago that still believes he's death? You've got to be kidding me with this sh!t.

[cara mia]

I think TB is trying to say that back then, it would have been impossible for P3 to be himself. Today though, he can be accepted as his true self.

I do question this bit of logic:

#1: Just because characters espouse a point of view, it does not mean it will be shared by the audience. If anything, viewers who are anti-gay storylines might end up feeling more disconnected from Kay, Esther or other favorites.

#2: This country is literally torn in half over gay marriage and the spectrum of issues surrounding homosexuality. It is completely unrealistic that no one, especially in a swing state like Wisconsin, has an issue with P3. It would be much better drama to have at least one person, maybe Jill (?) or P4, have an issue with this. That would help explain why P3 thought he had to lie and it would give Jill & P3 something to work through.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Like most stories on this show, they appear to miss the boat on everything. It's incredibly unrealistic that at least one person doesn't have some issue with him being gay and that reason being the reason why he put his loved ones through hell by faking his death. God, this show is so badly written, I can't even get passed crap like this.

[Soapsuds]

So when did this become a spoiler thread? Someone forgot to cover the spoilers.

[cara mia]

MAB can't write. She really can't and we need to just face the truth. I don't think I'll stick with this show once the new fall season starts. When Mad Men and all the other primetime series return, I'll need to cut something out anyway.

[Sylph]

cara mia... Do you perhaps have anyone to suggest from today's literature world who could pen this soap? Not going to happen, we all know, but just for the fun of it, I am extremely interested if you would have someone specific in mind.