Yes, parenting choices can very often bite ya' in the butt. I still can't watch my soaps when my son is around, but this time it's for very different reasons. He makes fun of them so badly that I get my feelings hurt. I think he's insulting my intelligence. This comes from the young man who named his cat Beavis! LOL!

I truly enjoy reading young posters who love soaps! I just wish I could find a way to post that wouldn't end up accidentally hurting someone's feelings. That is just so frustrating to me.

You are doing fine with your posting. They come off very sincere and honest. Dont worry about hurting someone's feelings. You havent so far and I doubt you will. Just keep posting. Your posts are very refreshing here at SON.

As to your son....hehe...I guess he never got hooked onto soaps like I did at a young age. Had he watched with you he probably would have gotten hooked and not made fun of them.

CE was wrong to quit, IMO, but it's his choice and he's got to deal with the negative consequences.

Taste, though, is subjective. If he found Adam utterly repulsive, he's certainly not alone. A lot of fans are digging this story but a lot of fans are quite upset by it. It's definitely pushing the envelope. Arranging for Ashley to be examined by a doctor who sexually molests his patients is just -- ugh. Adam is so far gone and so removed from right & wrong, I wouldn't not surprised at all if he raped Abby before finally meeting his maker.

We'll see how MM does -- I know he's very talented -- but I am of the opinion that CE is the reason the story works and that without his "wholesomeness", the story becomes too sordid. The story of "How Could a Nice Boy so Evil" is very different than "What will that psycho Villain do to that poor Woman next". I've seen the latter many times, sometimes done well, sometimes not. The best was probably the spectacular William De Vry as Michael tormenting poor Bianca. Great villain, great story. If MM's Adam is comparable to WDV's Michael, I'll enjoy the story even if it's not what I originally hoped for.

It says a lot that EB tried to dissuade Engen from leaving. It's too bad Engen didn't listen. He could have played the good boring guy once he was rehabilitated..

You're assuming he would be rehabilitated.

The show is one big plot device, it's starting to seem like what AMC has been under Pratt all these months *shudders*

Edited June 12, 200916 yr by Zendall Fan

Well, there is a real difference between feeding a man rats and torturing an innocent woman, giving her a sexual pervert for a doctor, and allowing her to believe she's still pregnant while carrying around a dead fetus. I still think CE was wrong to quit. I just don't see how you can equate a bad ass like Victor to a sociopath misogynist like Adam. It's not the same. Still, CE was wrong to quit.

Well, there is a real difference between feeding a man rats and torturing an innocent woman, giving her a sexual pervert for a doctor, and allowing her to believe she's still pregnant while carrying around a dead fetus. I still think CE was wrong to quit. I just don't see how you can equate a bad ass like Victor to a sociopath misogynist like Adam. It's not the same. Still, CE was wrong to quit.

I agree with you, Cara. One of the things this storyline drove me crazy about, is that the doctor didn't do anything close to an ob/gyn exam. Certainly not sitting on the sofa, with Niki perched on the end. Without an exam, how in the hell could he know she miscarried? Some women who miscarry do not need a D&C, but others (like myself) do. I guess it would depend on how far along she was. Still, you just can't tell by taking someone's blood pressure. Heck, even Olivia used a modified fetal heart monitor. This doctor didn't. Aside from septic poising, if Ashley didn't dispell placenta, she would bleed to death, as the placenta still draws blood from the mother. I know this is a soap, and is not obligated to go into gory details, but it is an insult to any woman who knows the basics of obstetrics.

The thing is, the show DOES go into gory details. Blood on the floor, Adam changing Ashley's while she's knocked out, needles in the eye. The show can't invite us to consider some gory details and be all genteel about others.

I'll say it a million times -- CE is wrong to quit. That doesn't mean though that he & other people upset by the story should be dismissed out of hand. What's more of an insult to MAB & the writers -- people who take her show seriously & are affected by it or people who just dismiss it as entertainment? Doesn't MAB want to be taken seriously? Isn't she at least aspiring for greatness sometimes? Remember that awesome moment with Phyllis & the mirror ("I hate myself"). I don't think that CE was wrong to take the show seriously or his character seriously or these storylines to heart. His problem was that he needed to find a way to feel his part without getting so personal about that he couldn't disassociate. Sigh. The problem here is that some actors are very method and they put a lot of themselves into their roles. CE was wrong to quit but I can see how a method actor, playing Adam, day in & day out, with a long-term contract ahead of him might get overwhelmed if he has not yet developed the tools that help him leave his character at work.

If CE felt it was badly written, I agree and if he felt it was taking Adam too far without probable cause, I agree. I'd rather CE not have quit but oh well. Another part of me is glad he did.

I don't mind dark tales but the endless stream of wtfs with this story bugs me. I still don't get exactly what Adam is trying to accomplish tormenting Ashley relentlessly. Like his dressing up as Sabrina and spooking Ashley on the stairs. What was his goal right then if not to have her fall down the stairs? I get his motivation to get back at Victor and Jack. But problem is Jack is hardly in this story. We don't see Jack that torn up about Ashley, his main focus is Sharon and all that quad crap. Victor is there but he's not really torn up either, concerned yes but that's it. So Ashley is getting tormented and terrorized and it just makes Adam a sick punkass to me. I'd like the story better if he were gaslighting Victor. Or if he actually wanted Ashley and used the gaslighting as a way for her to lean on him. But this story we got is just blow by blow misogynistic and pretty much backs Adam into a dark corner. Sue me but I didn't want one-note villainy for this character.

I truly enjoy reading young posters who love soaps! I just wish I could find a way to post that wouldn't end up accidentally hurting someone's feelings. That is just so frustrating to me.

If only everyone cared about other's feelings on this board.

The thing is, the show DOES go into gory details. Blood on the floor, Adam changing Ashley's while she's knocked out, needles in the eye. The show can't invite us to consider some gory details and be all genteel about others.

I'll say it a million times -- CE is wrong to quit. That doesn't mean though that he & other people upset by the story should be dismissed out of hand. What's more of an insult to MAB & the writers -- people who take her show seriously & are affected by it or people who just dismiss it as entertainment? Doesn't MAB want to be taken seriously? Isn't she at least aspiring for greatness sometimes? Remember that awesome moment with Phyllis & the mirror ("I hate myself"). I don't think that CE was wrong to take the show seriously or his character seriously or these storylines to heart. His problem was that he needed to find a way to feel his part without getting so personal about that he couldn't disassociate. Sigh. The problem here is that some actors are very method and they put a lot of themselves into their roles. CE was wrong to quit but I can see how a method actor, playing Adam, day in & day out, with a long-term contract ahead of him might get overwhelmed if he has not yet developed the tools that help him leave his character at work.

Although ther have been gory things going on of late, I always consider that Y&R does them with TASTE, as opposed to shows like CSI, whose PREVIEWS during the commercial breaks on Y&R can make me lose my lunch! I hate them with a passion. And Phamie, your posts are FINE... and I understand how you think that CE might have had other reasons to not do this SL, I guess we'll never know. I think for alot of us, the idea that torturing a pregnant woman and a same sex kiss being lumped in the same category (apparently) by Engen is the problem. But I thought I read on Sarah Bibel's blog that HER inside sources said the gay kiss was the precipitatiing factor, certainly Sarah would have more inside info than Nelson, don't you guys think? And Phamie... my mother let me watch soaps from the time I was 4 , and I know I'm no worse for it. She realized that any of the "adult" themes on a soap that might be innapropriate for a child, would also go right over a child's head. But that was a kid growing up in the rural ozarks in the 70's.... a child today may be quite a different story.

Adam is so far gone and so removed from right & wrong, I wouldn't not surprised at all if he raped Abby before finally meeting his maker.

You know, it's funny you said that about Abby. The thought of that happening has often crossed my mind. Abby thinks he is a weirdo from the get go. I know he is her half brother, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he attacked her in any form.

I still don't get exactly what Adam is trying to accomplish tormenting Ashley relentlessly.

He wants her to leave the Ranch.

The fact that it gets back at Victor & Jack is icing on the cake.

He wants her to leave the Ranch.

The fact that it gets back at Victor & Jack is icing on the cake.

Why is Adam's motivation so difficult for people to see?

Why is Adam's motivation so difficult for people to see?

Cause Victor's children have lacked depth since Heather Tom left.

Well, both Eileen Davidson and Eric Braeden admitted saying "WTF" to Engen. This is the part of a lifetime for a soap actor, I think.

Obviously, Engen had his limits as to how far he wanted to take his character and I don't want to get into another debate about this subject therefore, I didn't even read the whole thread.

Not to get into the Engen debate but this makes me think about Heath Ledger, he took on the challenge and did a phenomenal job as the joker in "Dark Knight"but the events that happened after left in question about when an actor has surpassed his or her threshold mentally within his or her process. After watching that movie and giving this actor all kinds of BRAVOs, I'm more sympathetic to any actor who has a relative epiphany that involves their conscience and what personally disturbs them about what they are doing. A viewer's understanding of what they are seeing and an actor experiencing his or her potrayal are two different things.

This post best sums up what I've been feeling about this whole situation and in comparison to Ledger's role in DK.

The Joker is a homicidal psychopath/ larger-than-life iconic figure.

Adam is a punk-a** son of a soap-opera mogul who seeks revenge by torturing his pregnant girlfriend for a few months.

Not the same thing to me.

But Engen has all the right to leave if he wants. He never cemented himself in the role to me. He had the potential but now that it's squandered, I look forward to what the new dude brings to the role.