Members DeeeDee Posted June 12, 2009 Members Share Posted June 12, 2009 :lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dawn9476 Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 Even if a story is crazy and out there, it is no reason to up and quit in the middle of a contract. It's very unprofessional because there have been countless other soap actresses and actors who had a lot more time on soaps who didn't up and quit in the middle of stupider and way more crazier story lines. Considering all the crazy stuff Eileen had to do on Days and the IVF story she had to on Y&R, I can see why she would say WTF to him quitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NorrthCafe Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 Editing to delete my 'Ledger' comment, had I read the thread through I would have seen that it was addressed'. Darkness, for some, is on a continuum and for others it's just dark. Adam, in my mind, has crossed that line into sociopath and if it was hard for Engen to do, I respect him for not wanting to take it further. Limits should be set in contracts so that writers know which actors are their 'go to' people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cara mia Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 It wasn't that CE could not do it. It's that he would not do it. There's a difference. Most of the actors on Y&R, literally could not make such a viable character watchable, not alone rootable. (So it's all the more frustrating that Y&R has lost this actor.) The question becomes why CBS Daytime does not feel the character or the grossness of the plot does not cross a line. I can't actually recall a character, let alone a legacy contract character, that's gone where Adam had -- torturing an innocent pregnant woman, killing her baby & letting her think she's still pregnant! On OLTL, Todd tried to do something somewhat akin to Margaret -- but Todd had a somewhat understandable motive. Margaret raped him and forced him to impregnate her. Even then fans were quite outraged and the show stopped from Todd killing the unborn child. Todd actually changed his ways and become a father to Sam. So, yeah, even Todd Manning has limits that Adam Wilson does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MTSRocks Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 Luke Spencer raped a woman. Kevin Fisher gave an underage Lily an STD, and tried to burn Colleen alive. Where do I begin with Todd Manning. Phyllis ran over Christine and Paul with her car. The show made it clear that Adam did not intentionally want Ashley to lose the baby. So I'm not getting the notion that Adam is the most despicable and twisted character to come across soaps, when characters have done MUCH MUCH worse. What Adam is doing is child's play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 Why are you comparing crimes? First, completely wrong approach; second, it won't delete what he did. You cannot condone it and just wipe it as "yet another one soap crime/villain thing". No one is going to say: Oh, look that one did much more heinous things, so Adam is actually OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 Kevin raped Lily. How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MTSRocks Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cara mia Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 It's not about what the characters do -- it about who they are. You are divorcing these other characters from their context. Luke was brought up in a hard life. He was villainous when he first appeared on GH -- knowing Laura supposedly redeemed him because knowing her love changed him. Adam was raised by SAINT HOPE in SAINTLY KANSAS with TONS OF WHOLESOME LOVE. Luke never would have been Luke if he had had Adam's childhood. Kevin was brought up by Tom, a man so terrible, they call him TERRIBLE TOM. Kevin was a lost and damaged soul who never know stability, kindness or hope. He was saved by the LOVE of Michael & Jana & Lauren. Kevin never would have been bad Kevin if he had had Adam's childhood. And who were Kevin's targets? Lily, because he couldn't get a woman his own age, and Colleen, who made him her enemy. Wrong but at least his victims make sense on some level. Todd Manning is the adopted son of bastard Peter Manning who abused him. Physically, maybe even in other ways. Todd never know love or kindness or any of that. He was partially and sort of redeemed by the love of Vicky and Blair and his kids and Tea. Todd is still pretty bad though but at least we know why he is such a sociopath. Todd never would have been Todd if he had had Adam's childhood. And who were Todd's targets? Marty, for rejecting him, Blair, their history is full of slights & fights, and dozens of others people who crossed him. The only time Todd went after someone he would have considered completely innocent was his own unborn child Sam but even he stopped himself before killing him. Phyllis was driven by the old soap standard -- female jealousy of a rival. If Adam ran over JT because he was jealous JT was getting close to Heather, that would be wrong but not beyond our sympathy. Jealousy can make you crazy. What makes Adam do despicable is that there is nothing in his background to suggest a reason for such warped behavior. He has targeted a complete innocent who has gone out of her way to help and befriend him. On top of that, she is a pregnant woman with a high-risk pregnancy. He is trying to destroy her MIND. He might just want her out of the house but he damn well knows he could push her over the age into insanity. Ashley could end up in an institution or even commit self-harm. Whether or not Adam "intended" to kill baby Vashley, he damn well knew that was a possibility. And after Ashley fell down and become unconscious and was soaked with blood, did he call for help? Hell no. He stripped her, cleaned her up and waited until morning. Now, he is lying to her and letting her think she's still pregnant. I know that Adam doesn't "seem" that bad on-screen but that's ALL CE's acting & unusually wholesome (for a soap) appearance. On paper, Adam has crossed the line into sociopath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MTSRocks Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 We know nothing of Adam's past. I know it's not about what character's do, that's not my point. Plus, why can't people just snap? Why must there be some sobbing back story to justify their despicable behaviors. So what if Kevin was abused, not every child that went through this does the stuff that Kevin did. Kudos to CE for playing the character with subtext than what just appears on paper. That's good acting. Think Dexter Morgan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cara mia Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 MTS, I actually hate sob stories as justification. My feeling about Kevin is that if you need to write him as abused child to "redeem" him then he really does not belong on canvas. Yes, GR can act his ass off. So what? Kevin should have been sent to jail or to a psych ward and the Bells should have capitalized on GR's talent by sending him to B&B. Luke Spencer became popular as a dark character, so there was no real need to redeem him either, but he is pretty lost without Laura. Todd was an awesome villain and should have stayed that way -- with perhaps only his love interest of the moment in the corner. He's definitely lost some of his power as a character as he's become more "sensitive". OLTL got pretty silly in trying to redeem Todd by bringing back the other rapists to play "the bad rapists" compared to Todd's "good rapist." LMAO! That seems very Fronsian -- like GH with bad mobsters vs. good mobsters. My point in bringing up the sob stories for Luke, Todd and Kevin is that TPTB of soaps usually try to provide some context for their villains, especially when they are invested them. With the writing for Adam, no attempt has been made to give context as to why he targets an innocent pregnant woman in such a vile way. Even the doctor he hires for her is a pervert who molests his patients. I mean, UGH! Can you not see that even Luke, Todd and Kevin at their worst wouldn't do that to a woman who cared for them? Yeah, young Todd raped Marty -- but would he hire a pervy doctor to take care of Rebecca? Would Luke do that to Bobbie? Would Kevin do that to Lauren? No, of course not. They all would have some limit. CE rocks at bringing the inner conflict to the screen but at the end of the day, Adam is all about violating an innocent woman in countless ways. WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?! If he's clever enough to pull all this off, why couldn't he kidnap Jack & Victor and stick them in a dungeon and feed them barbecue Zapato? Now that would have still been villainous & twisted and worthy of buzz without crossing the line into misogyny. Besides, the whole point of Adam hating Victor & Jack is that it's supposed to (temporarily) get Victor & Jack on the same side for a hot minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chris B Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 You don't have to come from a poor background I agree. I still think it's way too early to say that Adam is irredeemable. There are many options they can take with his character. Hell, if Kevin can come back from what he did (a child rapist is now so beloved?!) then this is a piece of cake. This Adam plot is classic soap and I'm loving the character. I do like that the villains don't appear to be completely evil. Mary Jane, for example, is more for laughs IMO. The cat just has me in stitches. I hope they can keep her around. Stacy Haiduk plays her with a certain aloof charm I like. She's a throwback to the 90s whereas Adam reminds me of the early 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lovely_m Posted June 15, 2009 Members Share Posted June 15, 2009 That's why I hate this storyline. I cant' believe a son of Hope would be like this. Don't tell that to the writers. That's how they justify Kevin's bad behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted June 15, 2009 Members Share Posted June 15, 2009 ...But a son of Victor's would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cara mia Posted June 15, 2009 Members Share Posted June 15, 2009 Would Victor really do to Katherine what Adam has done to Ashley? I don't buy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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