Y&R: Shocking Role Recast

[SteveFrame]

You have not lynched him in the literal sense but yes you have lynched him in the figurative sense. Lynching in it's basic form is convicting someone to death before you have the facts. That is the mentality of a lynch mob. They don't wait for the trial they go ahead and proclaim the person guilty and exact punishment.

That is what you did. That is what Perez did.

You guys heard the rumors and decided they were true even without the facts. You found him guilty based on gossip. And you went ahead an labeled him a homophobe. Not even an alleged homophobe.

[Marc]

I have no qualms whatsoever about Engen not wanting to kiss another man or play a gay character. I think he's 100% in his right to feel that way. My issue, and only issue, is that he walked out on a contract. That was an unprofessional no-no. If he ever works again, next time he should just be sure to stipulate what he will and won't do before signing the contract, and try to get an 'out' clause.

[MarkH]

Well, that is insightful, and you're right. If this is a Sheffer-esque attempt to use Adam's abuse of Rafe for sensationalism/"hoot factor", that may be ill-timed.

Here is how I have reconciled it. In hurting Rafe, we will get to know Rafe. In other words, Adam's victimization of him will begin to define Rafe as someone we care about...someone deserving of a real relationship. And it is THEN that the real relationship with someone else will begin.

I'm sure most hate that idea, but that's where I think they might be going....

Someone said they recently saw a scene where someone grabbed Brandon Beemer's *ss (Jackie?), but his character, Owen, said something like "knock if off Clarke". Implying Clarke was actively bi or something.

I never saw that scene. But it may be that B&B has had its own GLBT character and we didn't even know it .

Yes. I think (under Perez) what I'm starting to worry about is McCarthyism. In the long run, if people react AGAINST Perez's mission, it will set back the very real movement of trying to tear down the walls of unacceptance and unequal rights. Sometimes, kid gloves are better.

Me too. Because CE is the one who left (for whatever reason) and has been replaced by someone who genuinely wants to be there (MM)...I'm truly kind of over it too. I liked CE, but now I'm eager to see what the new guy brings. More or less, "end of story".

I can't believe they DIDN'T tell Engen. In his interview with NB this week, Yani Gellman said he was told about the "gay twist" for his character as soon as it came to the writers.

Thus, I can't imagine they wouldn't have extended the same courtesy to Engen. Why wouldn't they?

You're right. Adam is now defined (as a low down snake), so MM will enter playing a clearly defined character. His job will be to find some sympathetic beats underneath that or -- you're right -- he's rapidly heading to the trash compactor.

That said, the son of Victor and Hope should not be a short-term villain, to be killed off at the end. He shouldn't even be sent to prison for 5 years, like Michael Baldwin. I hope the writing is clever enough to 'save' Adam. Maybe, now, if TPTB enjoy having MM around more than they did CE, they'll be more motivated to "save" the character.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

But you can be gray or downright nasty and still be a viable longterm character. If they "redeem" him, they should at least keep his outsider sensibility in the Newman clan. I wouldn't want the character to be toally whitewashed.

[MarkH]

Agreed.

[Sylph]

:lol:

You are so right!

[Y&RWorldTurner]

[alphanguy74]

I agee with your asessment. I don't think gay characters are somehow ABOVE being victimized. I just don't want the character to be a PROFESSIONAL victim (i.e, Lily) But one of Y&R's original characters.. Leslie, was developed in exactly the way you described, except she was victimized by the selfishness and jealousy of her sister. It was pretty good, and we got to know Leslie as someone who was fragile, but sweet and always wanting to do the right thing.

[MarkH]

Should an actor on a soap be prepared to play WHATEVER beat is thrown at them (even if it is shocking, out of context, inexplicable based on the past...etc.).

Here is what two respected veterans, Heather Tom and Jack Wagner, have to say about it. (These are just excerpts from a Michael Fairman interview; the full interview is much more extensive and definitely worth the read, IMO).

elsewhere, in a different context, they say this:

And finally, they talk about embracing the unknown:

[Vanguardian]

I love Cashton's posts too!!!! He makes it all sound simple and sensible. I totally agree with his POV.

[MTSRocks]

I don't think I have anything to add. I'm pretty much going to co-sign the posts of Vee and Cashton because they seem to be the most objective, thoughtful, rational, and reasonable posters in this thread (no hidden agendas, emotional outbursts, or avoiding the issue at hand) .

Hold up I will say one thing...why do people keep comparing a newbie actor to the likes of well-known and "respected" actors? Ie. A situation with Eric Braeden and Chris Engen is entirely different. For one, you can't expect someone who has years of work under their belt, to be treated the same as someone who is just beginning their acting career (and is at this point completely replaceable).

I have no qualms with Engen, and I'd like to think that the money he made on Y&R should keep him afloat for some time.

[Ben]

Damn! I always arrive when a good topic has been chewed out.

For legality reasons, all I'll say is: It's happening.

This a very simplistic view, Cashton. I'm surprised you can't see the difference between not wanting to work with someone because they're gay (the Dr./patient analogy), and someone who doesn't want to act out a gay scene. I get that either way, it's still fear, but one can be comfortable with the former, but uncomfortable with the latter - it all depends on the context.

IMO, if CE's problem was based on religious beliefs, then why wasn't he accommodated accordingly? Many actors are given an out if they are uncomfortable with a certain aspect of a story. TPTB normally consult an actor to make sure they're fine with the "controversial" story direction, and if they aren't, then it gets changed. Whether or not you agree with his reasons, is *not the point*; CE is human, just like the rest of us, and if he is uncomfortable with kissing a guy, then the story should be changed. He shouldn't have to suck it up, 'cause it's his job. Where's the consideration? I say this, because I've read many a time when actors have been consulted on the same/similar storyline issues, and have had their personal feelings taken into account.

[cara mia]

This is why I think all of us should refrain from condemning CE until the whole truth comes out. Everything we've heard has been from TPTB point of view and we know that they are unreliable. If/when Engen pulls a Mel Gibson and makes insulting comments about gays, I'll the be the first to condemn him.

MarkH, I fear this too and I think this absolutely paints Adam into a corner that's hard to come out of. If Adam doesn't care about anyone -- not Ashley, Victor, Heather, Rafe, or even himself. how can he be a long-term villain? That's why if TPTB are going to do Rafe/Adam, they should be doing it with the intention of Adam eventually having real feelings for Rafe. If Adam were genuinely bisexual, that would give the character plenty of material to be conflicted over and it give the Victor/Adam relationship plenty of issues. How does Victor cope with having a son who sleeps with men? That's an infinitely better story than homosexuality just being used for shock factor.

[Sylph]

Well, that shot to sh!t, didn't it? Twenty pages of condemnations and defence all together!

And the truth will never come out.

[MTSRocks]

I don't know if MAB has the writing skills, but characters have done far worse than Adam's juvenile antics, and are still shown today (Dorian Lord, Victor Newman) or live on as icons (Roger Thorpe, Asa Buchanan).