i guess it all depends on your definition of homophobic. I use the one in the dictionary that says "fear of homosexuality".

But there is a big difference in fear of homosexuality and being uncomfortable with it.

There are a great deal of things I am uncomfortable about but that doesn't mean I fear them.

I was uncomfortable about my first plane ride - very uncomfortable - but I ddint' fear it at all.

I was uncomfortable the first time I had sex wtih a woman but I didn't fear it.

So again I want to know if he hated the idea or was just uncomfortable with it before I label the man a homophobe.

A straight man not wanting to kiss another man doesn't make him a homophobe. It makes him straight.

It's the fact that he was SO against it and SO scared of doing it that he would actually walk off a set and break his contract and potentially ruin his career that raises questions about whether or not he's dealing with a deeper issue and possibly (POSSIBLY) homophobia. But again, this is all hearsay, so...

So everything makes the papers here. It is a regular little Peyton Place in every sense of the word.

OMG, we must live in the same stupid little town!

If he is in fact a homophobe, I imagine he would feel the same way about gay people as he did before.

I mean, I get what you're trying to say. It's basically "kill 'em with kindness and maybe they'll come around." Would you say the same thing to the Jews who were burned alive by Hitler? "Oh, just give him some time... don't be mean to him and maybe he'll start to like you more," LoL. Yes, I realize that's a very extreme comparison, but it's the same kind of concept. It seems to me like racial prejudice and religious prejudice and every other kind of bias is unacceptable, but homophobia is a prejudice that people still take lightly. It's still given a pass in schools. It's still applauded by others who claim to be "proud of another person for standing by their beliefs." It's frustrating. But again, this is kind of veering off the Engen topic and swooping into a whole other conversation.

you didn't read all of what I said Kenny.

I said if a person is out killing gays and wishing death on them - then no there is no room for turning the cheek. That person has made his point clear. And I don't feel bad for anything that happens to him.

But some are lumping people that are just uncomfortable with homosexuality in with homophobes. Basically make a general stereotype and applying it to all. That is not right to me. Not everyone that is uncomfortable with homosexuality hates gays - they are just uncomfortable with it. And not everyone that thinks homosexuality is a sin hates gays. I know that first hand.

We can't make judgements and stereotype people and lump them all into one category. It is more complicated than that. We don't want every straight person to stereotype us and we shouldn't do the same to them.

So again I want to know if he hated the idea or was just uncomfortable with it before I label the man a homophobe.

If you are uncomfortable doing something you usually hate it. Every time I have to do something that I am uncomfortable with I usually hate it.

A straight man not wanting to kiss another man doesn't make him a homophobe. It makes him straight.

It's the fact that he was SO against it and SO scared of doing it that he would actually walk off a set and break his contract and potentially ruin his career that raises questions about whether or not he's dealing with a deeper issue and possibly (POSSIBLY) homophobia. But again, this is all hearsay, so...

Who knows - it may even be a deeper issue than that Kenny. He may actually be a gay person who is battling with his sexuality and coming out. This may be more than he is ready to admit to himself and more than he can deal with yet.

We don't know. If it is his own sexuality he is battling with again we are doing him no favors at all.

Coming out is easy to some but not everyone deals with it the same way. It took me a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time to come to terms with my sexuality. There was a lot of stuff I was uncomfortable with doing in the initial processes.

My boyfriend Gil and I have been together almost 2 years now and just in the last few months has he gotten comfortable with kissing me. I am the first man he has ever kissed and he is 49 years old, and been having sex with men since he was 16. Kissing was an intimate step he wasn't ready to take. He told me that to him it was easy for him as a man to stick a certain part in another man (trying to say this in a safe way for the board) but sticking his tongue in anotehr guys mouth was a very intimate step to him and meant more than sticking his **** in someone.

Edited May 24, 200916 yr by SteveFrame

Very unprofessional behaviour from Chris Engen, particularly in this current economic climate when everyone is struggling to hold on to their jobs(if you're lucky enough to be in work). Holding to your principles or religious beliefs is all well and good, but does it pay the mortgage or keep you warm at night?

Engen I liked on Y&R, so it's a shame he's thrown it all away, and all because he couldn't kiss another man?

Oh well, his loss is Michael Muhney's gain, and I look forward to seeing MM as the new Adam, he seems very enthusiastic about his new gig. And the dude is a major hunk too.

Very unprofessional behaviour from Chris Engen, particularly in this current economic climate when everyone is struggling to hold on to their jobs(if you're lucky enough to be in work). Holding to your principles or religious beliefs is all well and good, but does it pay the mortgage or keep you warm at night?

Engen I liked on Y&R, so it's a shame he's thrown it all away, and all because he couldn't kiss another man?

Oh well, his loss is Michael Muhney's gain, and I look forward to seeing MM as the new Adam, he seems very enthusiastic about his new gig. And the dude is a major hunk too.

Evan, you think everyone is a hunk. Btw...Happy Belated Birthday!

I am the first man he has ever kissed and he is 49 years old, and been having sex with men since he was 16. Kissing was an intimate step he wasn't ready to take. He told me that to him it was easy for him as a man to stick a certain part in another man (trying to say this in a safe way for the board) but sticking his tongue in anotehr guys mouth was a very intimate step to him and meant more than sticking his **** in someone.

I'm gonna need a cold shower if you keep talking like that. Stop it or I'm grabbing the KY!

Evan, you think everyone is a hunk. Btw...Happy Belated Birthday!

Thank you, I think!

I must change that banner LOL

Maybe Gellman has chronic halitosis, and that's why Engen didn't want to kiss him.

I'm gonna need a cold shower if you keep talking like that. Stop it or I'm grabbing the KY!

Kenny:

Steve Frame: we really need an adults only/restricted section on SON, don't ya think?

For the record, Michael Muhney is married with one child, but obviously he doesn't have a problem with the supposed upcoming controversial Adam SL.

I'm gonna need a cold shower if you keep talking like that. Stop it or I'm grabbing the KY!

LMAO!

Sometimes actors need to be eased into things. It took Halle Berry a long time before she was comfortable with on-screen nudity. Engen very well may have come around the kiss and the gay story if the situation were handled differently.

I despise all prejudice but I think we need a reality check on dealing with homophobia. Religious people -- WRONGLY -- have the view that homosexuality is a choice. They believe that because of the way homosexuality is presented in the bible. If you're going to church (or mosque or synagogue) every week and being indoctrinated with this belief since childhood, it's not going to be an easy process for you to relearn a new reality. That homosexuality is an orientation, not a choice. I have seen countless numbers of religious people shift their way on homosexuality as they grow as people. Patience and kindness is the key to changing hearts and minds. People like Perez Hilton do nothing to help the cause and only make the Miss California supporters less likely to change their views.

Another issue is the storyline itself. So Adam is supposed to CHOOSE homosexual seduction of Rafe to keep him quiet. So this story is presenting homosexuality as a choice and not part of one's natural orientation. One could make a strong argument that the upcoming storyline is itself homophobic and also indulges in dark stereotypes about bisexuals. Chuck Pratt was lambasted for wanting to make Reese a crazy "Anne Heche" like bisexual jumping from woman to man. Knowing Y&R, Adam will probably be banging Heather and Rafe in the same episode. Which I admit could be campily delicious but it could also hugely backfire and feed into some negative gay stereotypes.

Edited May 24, 200916 yr by cara mia

Kenny:

Steve Frame: we really need an adults only/restricted section on SON, don't ya think?

For the record, Michael Muhney is married with one child, but obviously he doesn't have a problem with the supposed upcoming controversial Adam SL.

Doesn't Engen have a child and a gf or wife too?? It's on his myspace page. Btw....SteveFrame has his own board Evan. I think he can do an adult one there.