On 12/22/2024 at 5:44 PM, chrisml said:

Philece Sampler never had a chance because her Donna does not get great storylines or writing.

I'm not convince that any character was especially well-served in the DePriest era. Philece's Donna was certainly in the thick of things, antagonized by Reginald and the Sin Stalker and John. Anna Stuart's Donna had suffered as well. John and Victoria had to be reshaped post-DePriest to be really good and the performers were equal to it. But was there any character who thrived under DePriest and survived?

14 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

I'm not convince that any character was especially well-served in the DePriest era. Philece's Donna was certainly in the thick of things, antagonized by Reginald and the Sin Stalker and John. Anna Stuart's Donna had suffered as well. John and Victoria had to be reshaped post-DePriest to be really good and the performers were equal to it. But was there any character who thrived under DePriest and survived?

What I've seen of Anna's Donna before she left was very hard to sit through - weak and feeble and losing her mind. 

I don't think anything improved for Philece's Donna until Harding Lemay returned and they remembered she really shouldn't be pals with Felicia and allowed her to be snobbish again. 

I can't think of anyone who benefited from DePriest. I guess Rachel and Mac and Felicia and Mitch came out OK. (I know she brought Mitch back)

Edited December 24, 2024Dec 24 by DRW50

On 12/22/2024 at 5:44 PM, chrisml said:

Philece Sampler never had a chance because her Donna does not get great storylines or writing. Sampler was wrong for the part, but I do have some affection for her. It's hard to explain. I think the one who really got shafted was Anne Howard. I really liked her Nicole and her relationship with Cass. I hated how Nicole was destroyed by Swajeski. It would have been nice to have Stuart's Donna have a long-term sibling when she returned.

Right about Sampler but that is what writers do, recast and pull a shade down over viewers and  recreating a character which is so stupid.  At least Sampler was recasted with the same color hair and eyes unlike most recasts from blonde to brunette. I really like Anne Howard and she is a perfect example of who Nicole Love was not.  Writers also look at long term things on the show.  Howard's contract was probably coming due and she was not a legacy character and it was ample to write her off as Jason Frame's killer.. Maybe Howard didn't want to renew her contract.

Just now, denzo30 said:

Right about Sampler but that is what writers do, recast and pull a shade down over viewers and  recreating a character which is so stupid.  At least Sampler was recasted with the same color hair and eyes unlike most recasts from blonde to brunette. I really like Anne Howard and she is a perfect example of who Nicole Love was not.  Writers also look at long term things on the show.  Howard's contract was probably coming due and she was not a legacy character and it was ample to write her off as Jason Frame's killer.. Maybe Howard didn't want to renew her contract.

I think Anne has said it wasn't her choice but I may be wrong.

1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

I think Anne has said it wasn't her choice but I may be wrong.

I remember her saying that as well.

On 12/22/2024 at 3:54 PM, chrisml said:

I just wanted to make it clear since I can't go back and edit that Joanna Going's point was that actresses after her had to sign three year contracts and she only signed for two. I like Joanna Going as an actress, but the writer's need to make her such a victim made was so unappealing. When she showed backbone (like in the scene with Vicki mentioned above), she  had the spark and intelligence of a fantastic heroine. I don't know why soap writers almost always had to dumb down and exploit the female characters. 

I think they wanted Going to be the reinvent of JC's Alice.  The weepy weak poor me but it did not work.  It was invented Jamie after Steve Frame's legacy and the choice of which woman he loved more

From Anne Howard's We Love Soaps interview.

https://www.welovesoaps.net/2014/05/catching-up-with-anne-marie-howard-ex.html

NA: Killing Jason Frame felt like it was out of left field for some fans. Did it seem that way to you?
AMH: There were clues, intentional red herrings devised by the writers, that pointed to every one of us who had been in the mirrored funhouse where Jason Frame was killed. It could have been any one of us and kept the viewers trying to guess who killed Jason Frame. Our new executive producer, Michael Laibson, called me into his office and told me if it turned out to be Nicole who killed Jason that it meant I'd be leaving the show earlier than initially planned. He wanted to know how I felt about that since I had a signed a three year contract and had only been there for two years. Since Nicole was the least likely suspect, I thought it was exciting to be the chosen one and that it would make for a shocking and dramatic story line. I also felt ready to move on and was looking forward to getting back onstage again. 

 

On 12/22/2024 at 5:02 PM, Maxim said:

It's such a breath of fresh air to read a comment like this. Thank you!  Sadly... I'm used to people jumping on me and acting like I've offended their mother or sister... when I have an opinion like it. That's why I always say in advance that I don't mean to offend anyone - just as prophylaxis to a potential breakdown I may trigger. 🤣 Sometimes soap fans feel incredibly protective over actors/actresses (which I don't think there's anything bad about... to an extend). But there comes a time where I've had people threaten me and issue personal insults at me, just because I've expressed a negative opinion about someone's acting.  

So... cheers to having honest opinions and sharing them with each other.  ❤️

 

Truth.  I have seen multiple times out here where people get so personal about someone's comments about actors or characters.  

29 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

What I've seen of Anna's Donna before she left was very hard to sit through - weak and feeble and losing her mind. 

I don't think anything improved for Philece's Donna until Harding Lemay returned and they remembered she really shouldn't be pals with Felicia and allowed her to be snobbish again. 

I can't think of anyone who benefited from DePriest. I guess Rachel and Mac and Felicia and Mitch came out OK. (I know she brought Mitch back)

I hated how DePriest turned Anna Stuart's Donna into a weak victim. Sampler's Donna was just a continuation of the same out of character writing.

2 minutes ago, denzo30 said:

I think they wanted Going to be the reinvent of JC's Alice.  The weepy weak poor me but it did not work.  It was invented Jamie after Steve Frame's legacy and the choice of which woman he loved more

I wonder if they even cared about the Steve and Alice ties. I suppose they must have, as they tried to go for Vicky/Jamie under Rhonda Lewin, but Lisa and Jamie both seemed so generic. When Lemay returned they did bring up the Steve history more but by then Lisa was going.

19 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I think Anne has said it wasn't her choice but I may be wrong.

Possibly, Im sure you are right.  She went to LA to act in DOOL shortly after AW temporary as Kim Brady.  Back to my theory if she was fired, it's the show and writers not dedicated to a character. Howard was the 3rd actress to play Nicole in just a few years.  No legacy in their minds sadly..

2 minutes ago, denzo30 said:

Possibly, Im sure you are right.  She went to LA to act in DOOL shortly after AW temporary as Kim Brady.  Back to my theory if she was fired, it's the show and writers not dedicated to a character. Howard was the 3rd actress to play Nicole in just a few years.  No legacy in their minds sadly..

I think that was true for most on AW in the '80s, including Nicole and Peter. So much wasted potential. If not for Anna Stuart returning Donna would have gone the same way. She almost did even with Anna.

23 minutes ago, Efulton said:

From Anne Howard's We Love Soaps interview.

https://www.welovesoaps.net/2014/05/catching-up-with-anne-marie-howard-ex.html

NA: Killing Jason Frame felt like it was out of left field for some fans. Did it seem that way to you?
AMH: There were clues, intentional red herrings devised by the writers, that pointed to every one of us who had been in the mirrored funhouse where Jason Frame was killed. It could have been any one of us and kept the viewers trying to guess who killed Jason Frame. Our new executive producer, Michael Laibson, called me into his office and told me if it turned out to be Nicole who killed Jason that it meant I'd be leaving the show earlier than initially planned. He wanted to know how I felt about that since I had a signed a three year contract and had only been there for two years. Since Nicole was the least likely suspect, I thought it was exciting to be the chosen one and that it would make for a shocking and dramatic story line. I also felt ready to move on and was looking forward to getting back onstage again. 

Thanks. What a resource WLS was.

9 minutes ago, denzo30 said:

 

 

Edited December 24, 2024Dec 24 by denzo30

13 hours ago, DRW50 said:

What I've seen of Anna's Donna before she left was very hard to sit through - weak and feeble and losing her mind.

I'm sure that I have complained before that one of the problems with the way Reginald's return was structured was that he was represented as Donna's kryptonite. She was unable to defend herself against him, and therefore more emphasis was placed on how Michael and Peter reacted to him. Not that their storylines were noticeably more complex, but they were given more agency in how they acted and reacted. Unfortunately Michael's final climactic beef with Reginald was focused on the recent loss of Donna's unborn baby, which they described as Michael's son/Reginald's grandson, as if Donna were completely irrelevant.

Yes, I would agree that Anna Stuart's Donna was written as spineless towards the end of her first run. She regained a backbone on her return. I've always said if they had made Reginald less of a monster and made Mary his Achilles heel the character would have had more staying power and Denise Alexander would not have been stranded in storyline Siberia. They went the easy "moustache twirling" villain route with the character of Reginald. UGH. Sampler did what she could with Donna, but like Gabet, she was set up to fail.

Regardless of whose decision it was, I think it was extremely shortsighted to write off Nicole in the way they did. The previous year it was all about Cass and Nicole so as a viewer it felt that all that was for nought. I was initially resistant to the character of Frankie for that reason.