20 hours ago, Jdee43 said:

Those Another World episodes from August 1980 to November 1981 were originally posted by P&G back in 2007 and 2008 on the AOL Classic Soap Channel. Sad that that venture didn't last longer or that P&G didn't initially choose Hulu back then for uploading their old classic soap episodes 😢

They chose some of the dullest episodes, but then Soapnet didn't keep AW long enough either (wasn't it just a few years) even though 87-91 had some high spots.

On 10/14/2024 at 5:29 PM, vetsoapfan said:

While Muenker was no teenage Genie Francis (AM was not always up to the challenge of playing heavily dramatic scenes), she was indeed more than adequate. In fact, she was very likeable and often quite appealing. I'd say that she was the audience's favorite Marianne. 

Lemay's entrenched vitriol towards certain actors always came across as pathological to me.🙄

I get the sense he was ashamed of actresses who had a broader popular appeal and were not among an elite theater crowd. He was so tied to that elite he didn't realize how rare it was to find a Beverly Penberthy or Susan Sullivan (and I'm not sure he was even involved in Sullivan's casting [obviously he wasn't in Penberthy's]). 

I have only seen a bit of the Marianne who replaced Ariane, but nothing I saw suggested she was a stronger performer.

Edited October 15, 20241 yr by DRW50

50 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I get the sense he was ashamed of actresses who had a broader popular appeal and were not among an elite theater crowd. He was so tied to that elite he didn't realize how rare it was to find a Beverly Penberthy or Susan Sullivan (and I'm not sure he was even involved in Sullivan's casting [obviously he wasn't in Penberthy's]). 

I have only seen a bit of the Marianne who replaced Ariane, but nothing I saw suggested she was a stronger performer.

I agree. Adrienne Wallace, who replaced Ariana Meunker as Marianne, was an actress of approximately equal talent. Wallace was a very acceptable replacement, but a replacement was totally unnecessary.  

And I'm fairly sure Susan Sullivan was cast as Lenore just before Lemay took over as head-writer. No idea how much theater experience Sullivan had, but Lemay adored her -- as did I.   

And as you acknowledged, Ms Penberthy was hired around 1968, during Agnes Nixon's time as head-writer.  Lemay seemed to love love love Penberthy (as did I).  And she did have significant theater experience before AW.  Not sure if she ever returned to the stage during or after her time as Pat.

45 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

And as you acknowledged, Ms Penberthy was hired around 1968, during Agnes Nixon's time as head-writer.  Lemay seemed to love love love Penberthy (as did I).  And she did have significant theater experience before AW.  Not sure if she ever returned to the stage during or after her time as Pat.

Penberthy has one brief (13 previews + 4 performances) Broadway credit in a play in 1969 with Nicolas Coster and Bethel Leslie among others.

https://www.ibdb.com/broadway-production/but-seriously-2852#OpeningNightCast

https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/36bc86d0-f139-012f-71e1-58d385a7bbd0

I didn't turn up any off Broadway or regional theatre but I would be surprised if she had not continued to work if she wanted to. 

 

 

Edited October 15, 20241 yr by Xanthe

Someone in one of the episodes Eddie Drueding uploaded a few days ago (a January 1989 episode) mentioned watching it when it aired in Ireland. I can't remember if we know much about AW's history in the UK or not.

Edited October 15, 20241 yr by DRW50

1 hour ago, Xanthe said:

Penberthy has one brief (13 previews + 4 performances) Broadway credit in a play in 1969 with Nicolas Coster and Bethel Leslie among others.

https://www.ibdb.com/broadway-production/but-seriously-2852#OpeningNightCast

https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/36bc86d0-f139-012f-71e1-58d385a7bbd0

I didn't turn up any off Broadway or regional theatre but I would be surprised if she had not continued to work if she wanted to. 

 

 

Wow, that play certainly featured a lot of soap opera actors.  

I have always understood that Penberthy appeared on Broadway in "Barefoot in the Park" with Robert Redford, before being cast on AW.  And I believe I have even seen photos from the production. Does anyone know if that is correct?   

4 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

I have always understood that Penberthy appeared on Broadway in "Barefoot in the Park" with Robert Redford, before being cast on AW.  And I believe I have even seen photos from the production. Does anyone know if that is correct?   

No Beverly Penberthy in the Broadway cast but Elizabeth Ashley was.opposite Redford in the opening night cast while Beverlee McKinsey was standby in the rôle under the replacements. Lots of other names in the cast as well.

https://www.ibdb.com/broadway-production/barefoot-in-the-park-3036#OpeningNightCast

Beverly Penberthy replaced Joan Van Ark in the touring production with Myrna Loy.

https://www.ibdb.com/tour-production/barefoot-in-the-park-526624#Replacements

I find it amazing that Harding Lemay never appreciated Jacqueline Courtney's talents considering her huge popularity!  Irna Phillips believed in her, as did Agnes Nixon who created the Alice/Steve love story which put Jacquie front and center as THE leading lady of AW!  He criticized her acting yet millions tuned in to see her emote as the long-suffering Alice.  The problem as I see it is that he never understood the mechanics of soap acting as an art form- it's pure melodrama carried to the extreme.  Ol' Pete would have given 'thumbs down' to the likes of film stars like Lana Turner, Susan Hayward, Dorothy Malone, and Elizabeth Taylor- actresses who starred in big screen melodramas in the 50s and 60s- and the latter three won Oscars in melodramas!  Jacquie knew how to pull at the heartstrings of the AW viewers - and you need talent for that!  But Lemay had no faith in melodrama and wanted to turn "Another World" into Eugene O'Neill or Arthur Miller- yes it led to well-written scripts, but what about the emotional turmoil that has always driven soaps?  He actually admired George Reinholt as an actor despite his openly criticizing Lemay's writing at times and his antics backstage.  So why couldn't he appreciate Miss Courtney for all she did for "Another World"?

 

6 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I get the sense he was ashamed of actresses who had a broader popular appeal and were not among an elite theater crowd. He was so tied to that elite he didn't realize how rare it was to find a Beverly Penberthy or Susan Sullivan (and I'm not sure he was even involved in Sullivan's casting [obviously he wasn't in Penberthy's]). 

Susan Sullivan had been cast before Lemay's arrival, as had Penberthy (clearly). Fortunately, the writer did not take exception to these actresses or denigrate their talents, so at least we were spared his kvetching about them. I don't think Lemay ever understood that often on soaps, the essence of a performer, a certain "je ne sais quoi," and/or star appeal are a large part of what endears the audience to a performer. Certain theater and film actors have been cast on soaps, but their lack of "it" quality has prevented them from becoming majorly successful or sparking devotion among the audience.

A good example of this is Lynn Milgrim, a stage actress with a fairly extensive resume, who was a recast Susan Matthews on AW. Whatever success she had on Broadway did not translate well to AW. IMHO, as Susan, she just came across as affected and somewhat...icky. 

Brian Murray is another example. He was a Tony-nominated stage actor, but his interpretation of Dan Shearer was not a success either (again, IMHO). He came across as pompous and oily.

Neither Milgrim nor Murray were as appealing on AW as the soap actors who had preceded them as Susan and Dan had been.

6 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I have only seen a bit of the Marianne who replaced Ariane, but nothing I saw suggested she was a stronger performer.

She wasn't. She may have been technically adept, but she lacked the spark and sweetness Muenker exuded. (And I say this, even thought I found Muenker somewhat wispy when acting in heavily dramatic scenes.)

3 hours ago, Avatar610 said:

I find it amazing that Harding Lemay never appreciated Jacqueline Courtney's talents considering her huge popularity!  Irna Phillips believed in her, as did Agnes Nixon who created the Alice/Steve love story which put Jacquie front and center as THE leading lady of AW!  He criticized her acting yet millions tuned in to see her emote as the long-suffering Alice.  The problem as I see it is that he never understood the mechanics of soap acting as an art form- it's pure melodrama carried to the extreme.  Ol' Pete would have given 'thumbs down' to the likes of film stars like Lana Turner, Susan Hayward, Dorothy Malone, and Elizabeth Taylor- actresses who starred in big screen melodramas in the 50s and 60s- and the latter three won Oscars in melodramas!  Jacquie knew how to pull at the heartstrings of the AW viewers - and you need talent for that!  But Lemay had no faith in melodrama and wanted to turn "Another World" into Eugene O'Neill or Arthur Miller- yes it led to well-written scripts, but what about the emotional turmoil that has always driven soaps?  He actually admired George Reinholt as an actor despite his openly criticizing Lemay's writing at times and his antics backstage.  So why couldn't he appreciate Miss Courtney for all she did for "Another World"?

 

I personally feel Courtney was an excellent actress, although of course anyone (including Lemay) has/had the right to disagree. The only time I felt JC was not up to the challenge was when she played evil twin Maggie Ashley on OLTL, replete with a fake wig, heavy glasses, and an unsuccessful British accent. I daresay, however, that Maggie was so ill-conceived and so much of a caricature, that most actresses would have struggled to pull off the role.

What Courtney did have, was that indefinable star appeal, that "je ne sais quoi," that elusive "it" factor which drew the audience in. It cannot be denied: the audience loved her and responded to what she projected on screen. Heck, even Harding Lemay eventually acknowledged this, and theorized that her presence on OLTL might well have contributed to its steady increase in ratings after she joined that show.

Not even getting into their technical talent, Susan Harney, Wesley Pfenning, Vanna Tribbey and Linda Borgenson all lacked the star appeal Courtney exuded, and after JC's dismissal, Alice never again enjoyed the huge popularity she had had under Courtney.

@vetsoapfan That's a great point about the difference with a theater actor and a soap actor. It reminds me of when Mimi Torchin would complain about the Emmy nomination given to Uta Hagen for essentially being Uta Hagen even as she just had a small guest spot on a soap (OLTL) and didn't do all that great a job.

And thanks to you and @Mona Kane Croft for answering my question about Susan's casting.

34 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

@vetsoapfan That's a great point about the difference with a theater actor and a soap actor. It reminds me of when Mimi Torchin would complain about the Emmy nomination given to Uta Hagen for essentially being Uta Hagen even as she just had a small guest spot on a soap (OLTL) and didn't do all that great a job.

And thanks to you and @Mona Kane Croft for answering my question about Susan's casting.

Both Uta Hagen and Farley Granger were nominated for their stints on OLTL, and the shame of it was, they both sucked, big time. Both of them stumbled and stammered their way through their lines, clearly out of their depth. It reiterated the point that daytime Emmy nominations were often dispersed to people who had recognizable names outside of the soaps, and NOT for what they actually did on daytime TV.

Being a good stage actor or movie star didn't mean you would shine on soaps. Learning a new script with little rehearsal is a totally different skill set. Some adapted, some did not.

 

It's best to remember that all award shows - Oscars, Tonys, Emmys - Daytime and nightime - Grammys, Golden Globes, etc. have very little to do with talent and A LOT to do with politics, popularity, and making up for previous slights.