24 minutes ago, China Jones said:

Do new writers ever bother to ask the actors about the specifics of the history of their character? Can actors feel free to chime in when they see that an egregious error is about to be made regarding backstory or the personality of their character or would that be considered bad form or insubordination? I know the actors have a lot of lines to memorize each day, so do they even remember things that happened with their storylines years ago?  

Why can't writers assemble a panel of dedicated viewers like the people on this board as consultants? We seem to recall just about everything, LOL.

It's all case by case.  Sometimes writers ask about character histories, and sometimes they don't.  Some actors speak up if they see a historical error, and others get tired of doing so and they just give up. Depending on the atmosphere in the studio, most of the time it's not considered bad form to speak up, but ultimately the decision is made by the executive producer and/or the writer.  Convening a panel of fans to monitor continuity would be cumbersome and inefficient, and I don't believe that has ever been done.  In the old days -- like pre-1980, continuity was considered more important and many shows had a person on staff who would look for continuity errors.  But after most shows transitioned to the 60-minute format,  monitoring continuity became more difficult with so many characters and divergent storylines.  And as soaps began to take themselves less and less seriously (some to the point of practically making fun of themselves), TPTB pretty much quit caring about accurate history and just began to write whatever they felt like writing.  

39 minutes ago, j swift said:

Don't forget Rachel's art studio space

Absolutely. Did Sandy and Blaine live in the mansion or were they in a separate building?

Speaking of continuity, the AWHP has some addresses and phone numbers. The address of the Cory estate appears to vary. I'm not sure whether the phone number for the "Cory studio" is intended to be a dedicated line for Rachel's studio or something else. (KBAY is listed separately.)

Cory cabin Route 23 to westbrooke to Willow Creek Bridge, to Willow Creek Road on Route 4, on Crane Lake (555-9680 [1981])

Cory estate 10 Underhill Terrace, Bay City, IL (near Lakeview Drive) (formerly 4 Bayview Drive, 21 Bayshore Drive [1976], and 57 Bayview Drive [1980]). The carriage house is at 15 Underhill Terrace
Cory studio 555-7923

Before VCRs I think the assumption was often that minor details didn't matter because viewers wouldn't retain fleeting references so it wouldn't be worth the effort to track minutiae.

I haven't come across the Lesoleil visualization where I believe Kathleen saw images of her mother (at this time still deceased and not yet named Mary) in 1985, but I did notice that she had a photo of her mother in a locket in this pre-Christmas episode. It's only a quick glimpse. Obviously it doesn't look like Denise Alexander. Maybe it could be Julie Osburn made up to look older but I don't think so?

 

 

Two things come to mind about the Cory estate.

1. The Cory stables must have been re-built at some point because Rachel set it on fire when she shot Mitch (although it was referenced as a barn, so maybe the barn and the stable were separate structures?).
2. Also, if memory serves, I think Louise and Brooks lived in separate quarters on the property, not in the main house.

 

Edited December 20, 20231 yr by j swift

53 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Convening a panel of fans to monitor continuity would be cumbersome and inefficient, and I don't believe that has ever been done.  

Yes, I understand. I just wish writers could have at least asked their grandmothers or old babysitters or anyone they knew of that had watched these shows if they remembered anything useful.

1 hour ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

It's all case by case.  Sometimes writers ask about character histories, and sometimes they don't.  Some actors speak up if they see a historical error, and others get tired of doing so and they just give up. Depending on the atmosphere in the studio, most of the time it's not considered bad form to speak up, but ultimately the decision is made by the executive producer and/or the writer.  Convening a panel of fans to monitor continuity would be cumbersome and inefficient, and I don't believe that has ever been done.  In the old days -- like pre-1980, continuity was considered more important and many shows had a person on staff who would look for continuity errors.  But after most shows transitioned to the 60-minute format,  monitoring continuity became more difficult with so many characters and divergent storylines.  And as soaps began to take themselves less and less seriously (some to the point of practically making fun of themselves), TPTB pretty much quit caring about accurate history and just began to write whatever they felt like writing.  

I think the shows still have someone in charge of continuity. Sometimes that is called the Script Editor. Sometimes other titles. Sometimes it is a writer who is called a producer. I know when GL & ATWT were on the air that they had them. At that time, and I believe still now, they take/took pictures of people, costumes, parts of the set so the continuity could be made to match when they shoot out of order. 

If we believe Susan Lucci's memoir, toward the end when Chuck Pratt, Jr. came in, he told the entire cast 2 things. 1. He did not believe in character-driven story. 2. They were to forget everything they knew about their character's history. 

Then he told them he was there to shake things up. 

I recently learned that Kristian Alfonso kept many scripts so she could prove to people things she knew about her character. DAYS Hope. 

On 9/3/2023 at 12:39 PM, Xanthe said:

And as far as Vicky's past goes, I was watching a scene where Felicia confides in Donna that she is looking for a daughter she had thought died at birth, and Donna commiserates with her and throws in a comment that Victoria was never adopted but was raised by Bridget. The original version of the story was that Bridget was employed by Grace and Philip Carson who adopted Victoria as a baby and then died when she was young so Bridget raised her. Maybe Victoria was too young to remember the Carsons and that's why they never got mentioned but they did exist. 

Since we are discussing continuity -- I noted this while watching episodes from 1989 that had this exchange between Donna and Felicia, and I meant to come back to it because there was a later scene (maybe around Xmas when Vicky had kidnapped Steven and was hiding out?) where Vicky does mention the Carsons. I wonder whether the timing was such that there was a fan response to the first scene so they added the reference with Vicky to fill in the gap.

1 hour ago, Xanthe said:

Donna commiserates with her and throws in a comment that Victoria was never adopted but was raised by Bridget.

It was indubitably a mistake, but I wonder if the Royal Dunning of it all creates a credible excuse that he illegally placed Victoria with Carsons, and they never officially adopted her? 

But, now that you mention it, is the correct story that the Carson's were wealthy (maybe not as rich as the Loves), because they could afford a nanny.  However, when they died, Vicky went to live with Bridget and that's how she wound up in the same neighborhood as Jake McKinnon?  Because I wonder why Vicky wasn't left the Carson's estate in their will?

Edited December 20, 20231 yr by j swift

45 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

If we believe Susan Lucci's memoir, toward the end when Chuck Pratt, Jr. came in, he told the entire cast 2 things. 1. He did not believe in character-driven story. 2. They were to forget everything they knew about their character's history. 

Oh boy, I bet his writing really pulled in the viewers.   What a foolish thing for a soap opera writer to say.  No wonder soaps are failing.   

3 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Oh boy, I bet his writing really pulled in the viewers.   What a foolish thing for a soap opera writer to say.  No wonder soaps are failing.   

Mimi Torchin is a friend & she told me awhile back that she really thinks one of the terrible things that happened to soaps more recently, like in the past 20 years, as opposed to before, think about Goutman at the end of ATWT & Chuck Pratt at the end of AMC, anyway, to get to her point: Execs, both EPs & HWs: hubris & arrogance. 

And, in Susan Lucci's memoir she really had her eyes opened by Brian Frons & she said to her he is the most dangerous combination: ignorance and arrogance. And, Susan Lucci never said a critical word about ANYONE in 40 years till Frons canceled AMC the same day he did OLTL on a whim. 

Random thought

It was a missed opportunity that Douglas Carson (husband of Christy aka Patti D'Arbanville), was not related to Grace and Phillip Carson.  It might have been fun to explore that aspect of Vicky's past.

2 hours ago, j swift said:

It was indubitably a mistake, but I wonder if the Royal Dunning of it all creates a credible excuse that he illegally placed Victoria with Carsons, and they never officially adopted her? 

But, now that you mention it, is the correct story that the Carson's were wealthy (maybe not as rich as the Loves), because they could afford a nanny.  However, when they died, Vicky went to live with Bridget and that's how she wound up in the same neighborhood as Jake McKinnon?  Because I wonder why Vicky wasn't left the Carson's estate in their will?

I think perhaps the Carsons may have unfortunately gone broke before they died. 

I remember when the Dobsons took over at GL and introduced Emmet Scott and daughter Jackie Scott Marler and it was raised if she was related to Peggy Thorpe (still on the show) and they had no idea that 10 years before Peggy and her parents Ben and Maggie Scott  were major characters.

Maloney, M., & Bell, L. P. (2012). The Young and Restless Life 0f William J. Bell. Sourcebooks, Inc.

Excerpts from 

p.38

Irna & Bill co-created Another World. The show bible dated 8-26-63 is 24 pages long. "In a community not too far from Oakdale, a community near the university -- one that is certainly not what we usually think of as suburbia but not completely cosmopolitan either -- live two families," Irna & Bill wrote.

 

"As far as Another World is concerned, we believe that in some way we all create 'another world' for ourselves. If we didn't, facing reality 24 hours a day would be too much. But as for another world for women, we feel that the viewer, who we hope will come to know all the people to whom you've been introduced will recognize in this story that a home and a family should be solidified & not attached."

 

Creating AW also provided valuable lessons. "It was a whole new level of learning," Bill said of starting an original daytime series. Another World, which Rose Cooperman titled & which chronicled the lives of the Matthews family.

 

Bill & Irna left AW & James Lipton came in but then he also left & Agnes Nixon came in. Her Alice/Steve/Rachel triangle put the show on the map.

 

"Aggie did a fabulous job with that show," praised Bill.

 

p. 40 

Bill learned many things from Irna, including the importance of protecting his writers. ATWT cast member Don Hastings was privy to what went on in the writers' room, courtesy of his own brief writing stint with Irna. He recalls: "If someone from P&G or CBS didn't like a script and said, "Who wrote this?" Irna would say, "I write all the scripts! If you don't like it, it's my fault because I'm the one who said this is something that should be broadcast!"

 

Did anyone know that Rose Cooperman named the show? 

Edited December 20, 20231 yr by Donna L. Bridges
1 thought

10 hours ago, Xanthe said:

I think perhaps the Carsons may have unfortunately gone broke before they died. 

Maybe they spent too much money on illegal babies and nannies? 😉

Edited December 20, 20231 yr by j swift

15 hours ago, j swift said:

Random thought

It was a missed opportunity that Douglas Carson (husband of Christy aka Patti D'Arbanville), was not related to Grace and Phillip Carson.  It might have been fun to explore that aspect of Vicky's past.

Vicky was pretty busy already at that time -- she got engaged to and married Grant, held prisoner in an ice cave, cheated on Grant with Ryan. And since Victoria had never talked about knowing anyone from the Carson family after her parents died and Bridget was the only one who cared for her, could there be any emotional reason for her to get to know the family or would it have to be financial or to deal with some kind of scandal that would cause a problem for Grant's political career? Christy and Douglas seemed to be specifically designed as a short-term speed bump for Cass and Frankie, but I suppose either Vicky could have been involved in the trial over Douglas' death or another Carson could have come to town because of the trial and whatever storyline with Victoria could have ensued.

There have been quite a few minor surname reuses that were never intended to mean anything. Most just sound like very generic English surnames, although a few might have been meaningful to the writer for some reason as well. In fact in some cases the same names probably showed up all around P&G. For example:

• Victoria's adoptive parents Grace and Philip Carson and Frankie's friend's husband Douglas Carson.
• Felicia's secretary Miss Devon and her long-lost daughter Lorna Devon.
• Scott's girlfriend Patricia Kirkland and Grant and Ryan's mother Justine Kirkland.
• Donna and Michael's foster child Mikey Miller (parents Eve and Toby); and Victoria's Kirkland substitute Sean Patrick Miller (parents Laurie and Patrick); Courtney's abusive ex-boyfriend Andrew Miller.
• Thomasina's social worker Rita Kent and Iris' boyfriend Hank Kent (son Tommy and ex-wife Sheri).
• Sally Madison (who killed Lucas and her brother Rick); Chris Madison and his mother Rita.
• Sylvie Kosloff's sister Myrtle Benson, multiple murderer Nurse Emily Benson, obsessed Dr Taylor Benson.
• Michael Randolph's fiancee Karen Campbell, Nurse Joyce Campbell (who I believe had a deaf son so she bonded with Brittany), and Olivia's physical therapist David Campbell.

 

 

Edited December 20, 20231 yr by Xanthe
punctuation to limit the number of Sally Madison's victims