1 hour ago, Neil Johnson said:

John Randolph was killed-off on March 6, 1979, and by mid-April Harding Lemay had resigned as head-writer.

I thought it was March 5th the first 90 minute episode. Anyway, he told them he would quit over the 90 minute show & he did. 

25 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

I thought it was March 5th the first 90 minute episode. Anyway, he told them he would quit over the 90 minute show & he did. 

No, John died on March 6 -- the second 90-minute episode.  The first 90-minute episode (March 5) was more Cory-centric, and it set up the events of the next day.   

I have seen no verifiable evidence that Micheal Ryan (John Randolph) voluntarily quit the show because of the potential increased work load.  (Damn it, another myth?  Really?) A couple of individuals have posted that on the internet -- but that's the internet! For God's sake.

At the time, the soap press reported Rauch and Lemay wanted a big event to begin the 90-minute era, so what's bigger than putting both Alice and John in danger of burning in a fire? 

 

Edited September 16, 20232 yr by Neil Johnson

38 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Did any at the show ever talk about Granny Matthews? Was she Irna's attempt at another version of Grandpa Hughes and Papa Bauer, but someone decided she wasn't needed? Was she ever mentioned again?

(I guess Janet wasn't either)

Janet actually survived for several years, well into the James Lipton era. I've often been a little surprised Lemay never brought Janet back to the canvas -- since she was a complicated woman with many flaws.  Just the type of character Lemay enjoyed writing.    

Granny was written out very early in the series.  And yes, I believe she was originated to be a counter-part to Grandpa Hughes and Papa Bauer -- imparting sage wisdom when needed.   I have no idea why the character didn't succeed.   Could it have been underlying sexism?   Meaning the audience accepted wisdom and advice from Pa Hughes and Papa Bauer, but was uncomfortable accepting wisdom from a woman?  Who knows???

Was Granny ever mentioned again? I have no idea.  I started watching AW regularly in 1971, and she was certainly never mentioned while I was watching.    

11 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

Janet actually survived for several years, well into the James Lipton era. I've often been a little surprised Lemay never brought Janet back to the canvas -- since she was a complicated woman with many flaws.  Just the type of character Lemay enjoyed writing.    

Granny was written out very early in the series.  And yes, I believe she was originated to be a counter-part to Grandpa Hughes and Papa Bauer -- imparting sage wisdom when needed.   I have no idea why the character didn't succeed.   Could it have been underlying sexism?   Meaning the audience accepted wisdom and advice from Pa Hughes and Papa Bauer, but was uncomfortable accepting wisdom from a woman?  Who knows???

Was Granny ever mentioned again? I have no idea.  I started watching AW regularly in 1971, and she was certainly never mentioned while I was watching.    

Thanks. Even the photo of her on AWHP is striking. So many missed opportunities with the Matthews family. I feel cheated even though I barely saw most of them. 

The format of father-in-law questioning and comforting an unsure daughter-in-law was genius on ATWT and GL. Daughter-in-law and mother-in-law relationships are trickier. It's too bad no one at the show in that period ever talked about whatever the plans were. (did AW ever have a bible?)

 

6 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

(did AW ever have a bible?)

Yeah.

It's on AWHP in the Publications page

22 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Daughter-in-law and mother-in-law relationships are trickier.

Yes, that is interesting insight.  I think that relationship is less folksy and loving.   And certainly less appealing to watch play out.  Again, maybe sexism speaking . . .

Edited September 16, 20232 yr by Neil Johnson

Correct me if I am wrong but I as I recall Granny didn't even have an exit. They just stopped mentioning her, right? And, doesn't that sit at Irna's doings? It was that close to the beginning, wasn't it? 

@Neil Johnson  Good to be reminded of Lemay continuing to populate the Matthews family. Personally I think the sister soap & no room at CBS etc. myths that have been debunked were more egregious than overestimating the Gregorys, but I do see your point about that myth mostly because it's still sorta around. 

8 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Yeah.

It's on AWHP in the Publications page

Thanks. An interesting read.

Clearly there WERE much more detailed plans for Granny, her relationship with Janet and adoration of Mary because Mary was the "right" type of woman (a homemaker) while Janet had to learn to stop acting like a man (their words, not mine). I assume very little of this got through. I wonder how much it affected Janet's characterization.

I guess none of those plans for Russ went through either. Doesn't even sound like the same character.

Did Ann Fuller, the social worker character, exist on the show?

Pat is a better character name than Cynthia. I can't remember any soap character named Cynthia, aside from Linda Dano's on ATWT.

18 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Correct me if I am wrong but I as I recall Granny didn't even have an exit. They just stopped mentioning her, right? And, doesn't that sit at Irna's doings? It was that close to the beginning, wasn't it? 

About a month. Per AWHP it looks like she went to help her niece with a baby. Clearly a very difficult time if she never returned and was never mentioned again.

34 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

Yes, that is interesting insight.  I think that relationship is less folksy and loving.   And certainly less appealing to watch play out.  Again, maybe sexism speaking . .

Very true. The Doctors did a lot with Carolee and Mona but most soaps don't.

11 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I guess none of those plans for Russ went through either. Doesn't even sound like the same character.

Did Ann Fuller, the social worker character, exist on the show?

Yes, Ann Fuller appeared on the show.  I believe she was Missy's social worker early in the story.  

What were the original plans for Russ?  Russ went away as an adolescent, and Agnes Nixon brought him back a few years later as a young doctor, played by Sam Groom.

3 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

Yes, Ann Fuller appeared on the show.  I believe she was Missy's social worker early in the story.  

What were the original plans for Russ?  Russ went away as an adolescent, and Agnes Nixon brought him back a few years later as a young doctor, played by Sam Groom.

Thanks. Hadn't heard of her. 

The plans were that he felt inferior to Alice, who was brilliant, so much so that she could have skipped a grade if her parents hadn't wanted her to have the full high school experience. They would take Russ for tests and see that he wasn't like normal kids. Jim, over Mary's objections, would give him a broken-down car to repair. Russ would love it, and make the car work again, but would get in a car crash and go to reform school. When he returned, he would be moody and difficult, but Mary would see that he wanted to be a mechanic and try to convince Jim to support this.

Wow. This all makes Jim and Mary's branch of the family sound much more working-class than things ever seemed on the actual show.   Gives some insight into Irna Phillips' and Bill Bell's original vision of the family. And it makes Liz's upper middle-class dislike of Jim and Mary much more understandable.  Frankly, it sounds exactly like something Harding Lemay might have created.   How ironic, right??  

22 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

Wow. This all makes Jim and Mary's branch of the family sound much more working-class than things ever seemed on the actual show.   Gives some insight into Irna Phillips' and Bill Bell's original vision of the family. And it makes Liz's upper middle-class dislike of Jim and Mary much more understandable.  Frankly, it sounds exactly like something Harding Lemay might have created.   How ironic, right??  

Definitely. The details of Jim loving his brother but also so clearly being in his brother's shadow are very compelling.

I do think Russ had the potential to be a more interesting character than he was (RIP David Bailey but what I've seen of his time in the role felt very much like the usual self-righteous "good guy" - not sure how Sam Groom was but I wish they'd tried a fresh approach).

Did the story of Susan being in love with the man Liz was dating happen?

In the late 60's under Cenedella Susan married Fred Douglas who had been seeing Liz.

Fascinating discussion . The myth of the Gregory family taking over. It was constantly mentioned that Agnes killed them off in a plane crash.

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Fascinating discussion . The myth of the Gregory family taking over. It was constantly mentioned that Agnes killed them off in a plane crash.

I remember hearing that. The first time I heard it, or perhaps read it, I laughed out loud. Later I realized how destructive inaccurate information could be. But when I first heard it I thought it was so ludicrous that no one would believe it. Yeah, right. If only. And Phyllis Diller is Susan Lucci's mother, too! 

8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Thanks. An interesting read.

Clearly there WERE much more detailed plans for Granny, her relationship with Janet and adoration of Mary because Mary was the "right" type of woman (a homemaker) while Janet had to learn to stop acting like a man (their words, not mine). I assume very little of this got through. I wonder how much it affected Janet's characterization.

I guess none of those plans for Russ went through either. Doesn't even sound like the same character.

About a month. Per AWHP it looks like she went to help her niece with a baby. Clearly a very difficult time if she never returned and was never mentioned again.

My guess is Irna wasn’t a fan of the actors who played Granny, Russ and Susan and she revised her plans a lot. 

Granny was mentioned around the time of Pat’s trial. Jim and Mary didn’t want her to come back to town for the trial because it would have been too tough for Pat, I think. Idk if that was the last time she was mentioned or not. 

4 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

 It was constantly mentioned that Agnes killed them off in a plane crash.

I’ve always wondered how that rumor started lol