I think if that new consistency can be put on anyone it may be *gasp* Gary Tomlin, who aside from some major mistakes, managed to keep OLTL reasonably on-track through the strike. Chris Whitesell, however, has been [!@#$%^&*] for years.

I agree it seems to be just so-so, but that can't last, especially with almost no veteran cast. And there's no passion behind the work to me. You can't just keep flogging EJ, Sami, and former DAYS teen idols and expect to stay afloat. You need a clear picture of the future. To me they just seem to be looking to next week.

We may be seeing a different show. There are several stories that are developing, that feature characters that are familiar to the audience. The Brady-Nicole-EJ-Sami-Rafe story, the Daniel-Chloe-Lucas-Kate story, and the Stephanie-Philip-Melanie story can play out for several years. As these stories are developing, you have the Will and Mia connection, who certainly will gain a couple of teenage friends by summer. We still have Stefano, Kate, Maggie, Caroline, Victor, Abe, Lexie.... The show isn't brilliant. But there is a clear vision and I have to agree with where they are going.

The OC was always more of a media darling than a ratings grabber. Then the second season was horrible and people stopped caring.

Ed Scott is seen as a get because of his Y&R years, but Y&R is a totally different beast than most of the other soaps. Even John Conboy, who was Y&R's main producer for years, I don't think he's ever been a success elsewhere (Capitol was mixed at best and his GL run was disastrous).

I think it helps DAYS that they have the right mix of supporting characters. Maggie and Victor and those types of characters have not been leads in a long time, but they work as midlevel supporting players who add to the character of their scenes. You don't get that with Marlena and John because there's always that unspoken tension about who is the lead player in the scene and about their days as the show's stars.

Don't you think the success of the Biggest Loser may also be bringing viewers in?

I couldn't agree with you more about Maggie, Victor, Caroline and Kate working great as supporting players while also bringing that "vet" feel, which you could never get from Drake, Dee, Stephen, or MaryBeth, because the demand would always be that THEY should be the stars of the show.

I couldn't agree with you more about Maggie, Victor, Caroline and Kate working great as supporting players while also bringing that "vet" feel, which you could never get from Drake, Dee, Stephen, or MaryBeth, because the demand would always be that THEY should be the stars of the show.

The difference with Gary Tomlin is he has not been messed with like the others were IMO,there was a clear vision set up for Days when Scott was fired so i'm not tooting Tomlins horn .

DAYS is doing now what it should have done a long time ago. Get rid of the dead weight and create new characters and stories. They stopped living in the past and are starting to see the results.

I agree. The pat was holding them back because fan bases wouldnt allow them to move forward. J/M and P/K had to be front and center everyday all day in an amazing storyline right out of the 80's otherwise it was crap. yet when they did the campy OTT 80's bullshit it also failed. Im glad they cut them out and are moving on.

You know what, though, I realize I have basically done what Jack accuses me of. And I'm not necessarily trying to say he's wrong about me. But I don't think I'm wrong about him either. If I went and got a dozen people and we all decided hey, we like DOOL, started postin' about it, I guarantee you that suddenly Jack would be sippin' the Haterade. "I dunno, its so over, I'm over it" Swerve! Another JackPeyton special.

I will say this: I think in three to six months I will reevaluate DOOL's standing, and see if my crackpot theory has been borne out or not. Hopefully the baby stories will be done then, and we'll see where it stands. I believe it will be sinking again. If I am wrong, I will come back and lick Jack's boots. And Jack will look bored and disaffected.

Oh you know me so well.

But really, i woudlnt. I would be happy if people came here to discuss Days, but they dont. FYI, i do post at other boards where people like days. I dont just disagree for the hell of it

I think Days is just one of those old fashioned soaps that people are enjoying right now. It doesn't make people insane with hate/love/disappointment like OLTL does. And I think most of all it caters to a younger, not particularly picky audience. Dena writes middle of the road, basic, plotty soap opera. That's the kindest thing I can say about that "writer". Maybe she has hit her stride. Days is getting viewers who didn't watch 5, 10 years ago. They don't care about Marlena. And maybe some of those people who tuned in for John and Marlena's farewell actually enjoyed the show despite their leaving and stuck around. I hate saying any of this because there is no one who deserves these ratings less than Corday and Higley. Maybe the show is just watchable.

that is EXACTLY what Days is. and i love it.

I'm not saying DAYS is great, or utterly groundbreaking or anything. However, I've been catching it more frequently on SoapNet lately, and for the first time in a long time, the show appears to have at least one solid vision guiding it. It's not perfect, it's far from it, but it's consistent in some way. They've been milking their main storyline for dramatic effect, and not in a very rushed or lazy way.

very well said, i agree.

I couldn't agree with you more about Maggie, Victor, Caroline and Kate working great as supporting players while also bringing that "vet" feel, which you could never get from Drake, Dee, Stephen, or MaryBeth, because the demand would always be that THEY should be the stars of the show.

Days has placed the cast well. The vets like Stefano, Victor, Maggie, and Caroline may not be front and center, but they are being used. And not just handing out menues and talking to someone in a random scene. Kate is a major player in a b storyline. Maggie is a supporting player in that story. Victor & Stefano are driving storylines.

And just because they are younger doesnt mean that Sami and Lucas are not vets. Ali has been here for almost 20 years now. Further more they are using other people with about 10 years history like Philip, Nicole, etc... and using people with strong ties like Stephanie and EJ.

Days is doing something that no other soap is right now. Gaining people - lots of them - and keeping them.

and i am sure it will fall next week, it always does after a major gain. but then in about 2 weeks it steadys out and does well and does end up keeping most of what they gained.

The difference with Gary Tomlin is he has not been messed with like the others were IMO,there was a clear vision set up for Days when Scott was fired so i'm not tooting Tomlins horn .

I can 99% guarantee Ken Corday is going to meddle with Tomlin/Whitesell/Higley somehow. When something abruptly stops.....when a storyline all of a sudden goes into another direction......that's Ken Corday. He did it to Brash/Cwikly in 2001, he did it to Reilly in 2004, he did it to Sheffer in 2006, and he's gonna do it again.....it's only a matter of time.

Good job Days...I think the current storytelling is very reminiscent of the JER era, especially this baby switch storyline...Obviously Days has a lot of fans that like these stories that lead up to huge reveals...The Nicole storyline is clearly carrying the show right now...and while some don't like it, the Chloe, Lucas, Daniel, and Kate storyline seems to be getting viewers to tune in as well..

Glad you see the Reilly-isms too. The slow pacing, the storytelling, the clear vision, the false tags, the flashbacks (God, I hate seeing those Dan/Chloe sex flashbacks), the fantasy-fakeouts (ie. Nicole knocking Sami out in the church, Kate reveals the truth to Chloe on the plane, EJ finding out the truth, etc), the dumbing down of characters (EJ).

The best thing about the Chloe/Lucas/Daniel/Kate storyline is watching Kate's POV and her messing with Dan/Chloe. But when you watch from Lucas, Chloe or Dan's POV, it's dreadful. Kate finding out was the best thing to happen to this story. It went from a F to a B.

I agree Toups.Do you think the ratings increase is due to March madness.I was looking at the ratings increase and wanted to compare it to last year at this time at it was interesting.March 10 to the 14 had a 254,000 drop with 2,644,000 VIEWERS then the next week March 17-21 had a 306,000 viewer increase with a viewership of 2,988,000 thats about what happened this year.

I don't think JackPeyton's opinion is all that contrary - it might just appear that way on this board. I happen to agree with him - I haven't enjoyed Days this much since B&C's tenure in 2002. To me the soap is JER-esque but with better dialogue, pacing and acting but with storylines less "ground-breaking". It ticks over very nicely and has interesting character intersections that remove the "different day, same dialogue" angle.

Regarding the huuuuuuuuge fanbases that were meant to be tuning out when J/M & S/K were fired: To be honest I thought there would be a small decrease, not a huge impact. I never thought the ratings would improve. I have often gotten the impression that DOOL fanbases are very active and vocal to compensate for their true lack in numbers together with the fact that they only tuned into the show when their favourites were on and often mentioned F/F the rest anyway - as far as ratings go, they were already "out of the numbers".

The reason the ratings haven't dropped and have actually improved is as JackPeyton says because the deadweight of the show has been removed. It worked on Days because (a) the new stories are well crafted ( those old vets were played out (yes some may disagree there is still plenty story in those characters left. Maybe for Marlena by herself there is. Maybe Patch's backstory there is - but as couples, its just a boring remix of the old tune...)

To say that there are no vets left driving story is nonsense too that reflects a bias towards certain other vets. At what point do you consider someone a vet? Just because they aren't over 40, doesnt mean they cant be a vet. Why is Lauren Koslow who has been on the show since 1996 a vet, yet Ali Sweeney (joined in 1993), Bryan Datillo (joined in 1993), Ari Zuker (first joined in 1998, 11 years ago), Nadia Bjorlin (shudder, originally joined in late 1999) are not? Yes, these actors are young, but if you aren't familiar with them now you may have memory problems (or ff'd from day one never giving them a chance). These actors driving the A-stories are certainly a part of the Days fabric now - one that is a decade old.

Regarding storyline progression, I think the show has laid out the foundation for at least 18 months worth of story after the baby storyline climax and Chloes affair comes to a head. Kiriakis/Di MEra wars, EJ's fallout over Nicole and Sami, Nicole & Brady etc. There is more but don't want to spoil people. Plus some of the B stories will probably swing into A stories.

My crackpot theory is that Tomlin/Whitesell are writing and producing and giving Dena the Bo/Hope stupid story to write (just my theory - I have no proof). As long as the show sticks to its current formula, I think the ratings will be stable to slightly rising for some time to come.

My second crackpot theory is regarding how Tomlin/Whitesell could create ratings and JER 2 couldn't (post SSK) and Sheffer couldn't I think explains how Days works:

I think Corday doesnt get involved in the show unless his co-executive asks him too. When the co-exucutive meddles with the headwriter and has conflict, the show falls to pieces:

Namely - JER vs Steve Wyman. For every accusation about Ken meddling, I think it all came from Wyman. Conflict between JER & Wyman led to storyline rewrites and down the tubes;

Sheffer vs Wyman - Sheffer starts off with a bang - goes pear shaped as Wyman interferes;

Sheffer & Scott - Scott steps in, hits it off really well with Sheffer, quality of show and ratings start to improve

Higley & Scott - Hate each other, ratings and quality tank

(Higley), Tomlin & Whitesell - good working team, results on screen

Whoa, what a bad week for the P&G soaps when a short week and the high quality of the Parker/Liberty story, featuring popular Jack/Carly, should have at least helped ATWT. And GL was continuing its run of good quality with Dinah revealing to everyone about being in on the kidnapping.

This is depressing!

Well it is a mixed blessing right now.

I want AMC to survive and all of soaps for that matter. But at the same time I am not as happy about AMC as I was in the latter part of 2008. From Oct to December and even part of February I was in love with AMC again.

January was terrible. March for me has been almost unbearable. There is just so much right now I am not feeling. The wonderful balance that the show had for awhile is gone and there is just way too much Ryan, Zach and Kendall for my liking.

I wanted to point out the truth about the ratings though even though I am not happy about the show.

I keep thinking in the back of my mind if the ratings just went down that they would see we want more of other characters again but at the same time I want to see the show do oaky too.

Thank you for pointing out the truth that AMC's ratings have been relatively stable under Pratt!

I feel the same way about the show these days. There is no more balance. I am relieved to see the ratings go up the week Kendall slept with Ryan, though, and stay steady for Tuesday & Wednesday when they slept together. Maybe now Frons & company will realize this show doesn't need the Zendall fanbase!

I think if that new consistency can be put on anyone it may be *gasp* Gary Tomlin, who aside from some major mistakes, managed to keep OLTL reasonably on-track through the strike. Chris Whitesell, however, has been [!@#$%^&*] for years.

I agree it seems to be just so-so, but that can't last, especially with almost no veteran cast. And there's no passion behind the work to me. You can't just keep flogging EJ, Sami, and former DAYS teen idols and expect to stay afloat. You need a clear picture of the future. To me they just seem to be looking to next week.

I don´t think this is true. As a DAYS watcher I really feel the writers are still atleast two steps ahead. I mean, the moment Sami and Rafe grew closer they already started hint at Rafe´s past. And today we will discover something terrible happened to his parrents. What? And who they were? And why is Mia so afraid to tell Will her full name? Could there be a connection?

The show is not waiting with a folded hands desperately dragging the reveal not knowing what to do next. They are already laying foundation for the next conflict after Rafe/Sami ends together. IMO, that´s the right way soaps should operate.

Looking at Days and Y&R in the 18-49 women demo on which the networks base their success, it seems to me that it is hard to definitively say what helps soaps do well with that audience. Y&R depends on its older characters and vets to anchor most of its stories, while Days has tossed their vets and foundation couples overboard. It may all be random. I want to see if these improving demos are a trend or merely weekly fluctuations. It is too easy to over interpret weekly fluctuations as gaining audience when they are caused by something else completely. MarkH should do a graph of the last year of this demo group when the ratings from May sweeps are in.

Now will they fire Guza and JFP?

Now will they fire Guza and JFP?

I think as long as Frons is there, Guza will be there. Frons is the one who needs to go before anyone, as far as I'm concerned.

Looking at Days and Y&R in the 18-49 women demo on which the networks base their success, it seems to me that it is hard to definitively say what helps soaps do well with that audience. Y&R depends on its older characters and vets to anchor most of its stories, while Days has tossed their vets and foundation couples overboard. It may all be random. I want to see if these improving demos are a trend or merely weekly fluctuations. It is too easy to over interpret weekly fluctuations as gaining audience when they are caused by something else completely. MarkH should do a graph of the last year of this demo group when the ratings from May sweeps are in.

I don't know if it's random, or simply that different formulas work if well executed. There is no solution that is universally successful across the board. It's been said that Frons doesn't want to transform OLTL into a Y&Rlite, and I can't argue with that. OLTL should be distinct from the other soaps (and all of them should be distinct from each other) otherwise there is nothing to separate them except the habit of tuning into this station at this time. They would all be interchangeable.

In the past few months Days has changed the way it tells a story. And its working. They feature an A story with two B storylines per episode and thats it. The A & B storys change episode to episode. There is the community feeling Days has gotten again. The slower pace and smaller cast has worked for days. everyone was calling for it to drop below GL when they fired MBE, SN, DH, and DH.. yet it hasnt fallen at all, inf act its gone UP. and it keeps going UP. and again, even when it does drop it bounces back the next week.

At the risk of speaking out of both sides of my mouth, I think this is what is missing from OLTL right now. There are too many stories overall (and too many "A" stories specifically), and minimal overlapping of the stories and the pacing of the stories is very mechanical. Obviously, Rex/Gigi/Shane/Stacy are what you would call an "A" story (although in my opinion that's several stories rolled up into just a few characters). They're on almost every episode. It involves Roxy and Rex's "father, and they seem to be pulling Brody and Schuyler into that story more, which should add to the complexity and richness. But they should have the story impact even more characters than that, and it should tie to some of the second tier stories.

The Marty/John/Blair stabber story is another "A" story. It minimally involves other characters as "suspects" or props, but for the most part it occurs in isolation. Why aren't Marty and Blair and Todd, at least, being tied into the baby swap story peripherally? Why isn't the audience being reminded that they're Chlope's grandparents? The only people seemingly impacted by the potential reveal of the baby swap are Jessica, Starr and Marcie, and that makes no sense.

Then there are a plethora of second/third tier "B and C" stories that seem to be playing out in almost total isolation from each other. The baby swap, Mathew's paralysis and Cole's drug addiction, Dorian and Ray's romance, Cris and Layla, Markko and Lola to name a few. These may loosely tie into the other stories, but we rarely see those ties. An example is, Jared and Natalie spent three or four episodes in the same waiting room at the hospital (they even had a wardrobe change, but remained in the same setting) and had basically the same conversation all four episodes, but had only minimal interaction with other people in the hospital at the same time. They had one brief conversation with Rex, none with Roxy, or Bo, or Nora, or Matthew, or Cole. Other than token mentions here and there, you'd think they were unaware that Blair was stabbed and there could be a killer on the loose. We know they got tested as matches for Shane, but it was brought up as an afterthought.

All the stories would be improved by including more characters that make sense, and there are so many opportunities for that to happen that are being overlooked.

Edited March 27, 200916 yr by rhinohide