I could have sworn Olivia had used the word lesbian several times already.

I think before we judge what GL is doing we need to step back and allow them to do it. You can't judge somethng that hasn't happened yet.

I know of two specific times that Olivia has used the word. Once before they talked to Emma's teacher, she was talking to Natalia about what others thought of them and said "What? That we're lesbians?". The other time was kinda funny. When she was talking to Alan she said "Lesbians... say it with me Alan." I don't think GL has any issue with using the word and there's no damage control over using the word. I think people are looking for a way to bash GL over the story and so far that's the best attempt they have.

The whole Natalia & Olivia stuff is absurd. Olivia is a man &^%$...LOL.

i love olivia and nat on GL because it is about two people who love eachother.

now where does that love start and end? just friends? or more?..

i dont care that nither ever were gay or bi or curious before. this isnt a story about coming out. its a love story.

OLTL is the gayest soap on the air without having any gay characters.

Very campy and gay sense of humor.(Nobody does comedy better than OLTL) Gay headwriter, lesbian scriptwriters, gay executive producer....

Well to me, Rex has been gay since day one. He is just ready to explode.

But that being said, I think the lack of a frontburner gay character on OLTL is wrong.

But I think, based on OLTL's heavily gay production and writing team- the show's lack of a gay character, much less storyline, is from an a--hole who sits at the top.

So the show makes up for it with double entendres, blowjobs at La Boule, and David dressed as a Buddhist

I think making camp is much easier for some people than writing for a gay character. The first half or more of Tomlin's OLTL run was nothing but camp, but if he'd actually been allowed to put a gay character on the show, it would have been a disaster. Just as Valentini's only frontburner story involving gay characters was that horrible, horrible Daniel Coulson storyline. I can't imagine what they'd come up with now. Probably some random gay crazy who is obsessed with Todd.

Olivia is a man &^%$...LOL.

Olivia's most complex relationships have always been with women. Reva, Cassie, Natalia...

Clarification: I'm referring to Liv not being able to say the word lesbian and having to 'demonstrate' what she meant by kissing Nat. Silly. Contrived. Ridiculous in my book.

As for Liv, I don't think we know who she is because she's never really been explored as a character. The closest we came to getting to know her is when her family started showing up and even then it was all about (or more about) them.

We've only seen Liv move from one highly disastrous relationship to another - taking even the best opportunities and turning them into crap (dumping Buzz to chase Jeffrey, for example).

This is GL's chance to let us get to know her in a way we never have before. She's more open with Natalia than she ever has been with anyone - again,except Buzz.. Maybe her relationship with Nat will be different.

It seems to me that the writers of any of these "gay" storylines can't win. Honestly. For me, their efforts are qualified by the fact that the context is a conservative, advertiser-driven, not avant-garde medium. In that context, I view these stories as baby steps...WELCOME baby steps. "You have to crawl before you walk".

If you look at how far we've come from the way it used to be....it is breath-taking and wonderful. Each little step...including these recent acknowledgements of bisexuality and late-life coming out...are just wonderful broadenings of the canvas. On ATWT, Nuke is now going to be used as "Nick and Nora" in a detective story, and I couldn't be more happy. It's all about pushing the envelope and showing diversity in more and more different ways and situations. (By the way, I'm personally proud of that slideshow I embedded in the link above).

But then again, I seem to be one of the few folks alive who liked the Nuke lovemaking :-).

It seems to me that the writers of any of these "gay" storylines can't win. Honestly. For me, their efforts are qualified by the fact that the context is a conservative, advertiser-driven, not avant-garde medium. In that context, I view these stories as baby steps...WELCOME baby steps. "You have to crawl before you walk".

If you look at how far we've come from the way it used to be....it is breath-taking and wonderful. Each little step...including these recent acknowledgements of bisexuality and late-life coming out...are just wonderful broadenings of the canvas. On ATWT, Nuke is now going to be used as "Nick and Nora" in a detective story, and I couldn't be more happy. It's all about pushing the envelope and showing diversity in more and more different ways and situations. (By the way, I'm personally proud of that slideshow I embedded in the link above).

But then again, I seem to be one of the few folks alive who liked the Nuke lovemaking :-).

LOL ....Nick and Nora if Nick and Nora were boring and robotic (and alternatley pissy!)

See, there is diversity in the gay community...you love Nuke and I think the most interesting thing about them is that they are gay, and that shouldnt be the case.

AMC is the ony soap I ever watch. The Lesbianca and Reese scenes are way over done. They should not be talking about a wedding because there is no such thing as a gay marriage. If they want to live together that is their business. I would never attend a so-called cermony. Meanwhile, I fast forward any gay scenes.

AMC is the ony soap I ever watch. The Lesbianca and Reese scenes are way over done. They should not be talking about a wedding because there is no such thing as a gay marriage. If they want to live together that is their business. I would never attend a so-called cermony. Meanwhile, I fast forward any gay scenes.

Hmmm, well this is off topic, but I just want to add this for me and all of my gay/bi/whatever brothers and sisters, I myself have attended too many of my hetero friends and families "so called ceremonies," and dropped quite a bit of dime on them (not to mention anniversaries, baby showers, kids birthdays) some of these so called ceremonies have taken place on skates (I kid you not, which was actually fun) on beaches without the benefit of clergy, one presided over by I think a Wiccan and in the traditional church and have watched many of them implode over infidelity, money issues, "just arent right for each other," ....so even though I and my partner of 15 years cant get married, and my hetero friends can get married anyway(no matter how ridiculous or goofy) they want with as many times as they want, I still go, not for the ceremony but for the people involved..and for the fact that there is something that feels good about two people making a stab at making a life together, be they a man and a woman, or same sex.

I am sure your many gay friends will miss you terribly at their nuptials..even though they may have sat through yours, bad banquet food and the chicken dance nonwithstanding.

LOL ....Nick and Nora if Nick and Nora were boring and robotic (and alternatley pissy!)

See, there is diversity in the gay community...you love Nuke and I think the most interesting thing about them is that they are gay, and that shouldnt be the case.

Wow...that makes me think. Is it their "gayness" that makes them interesting? Are they otherwise uninteresting?

Maybe, just maybe, you're right...at least for Noah. For Luke, there is a history and a connection to core families and ... yes ... even an interesting personality that sometimes gets him into trouble. So, I think having the tale anchored by Luke makes it stronger.

But, also, let's assume that "gayness" is what attracted the eyeballs. If that is true, then the big question is "what happens from here?" If they now move into stories that are not about sexuality, then I'd argue all is well. Sexuality is part of the backdrop, as it should be...not forefront.

Wow...that makes me think. Is it their "gayness" that makes them interesting? Are they otherwise uninteresting?

Maybe, just maybe, you're right...at least for Noah. For Luke, there is a history and a connection to core families and ... yes ... even an interesting personality that sometimes gets him into trouble. So, I think having the tale anchored by Luke makes it stronger.

But, also, let's assume that "gayness" is what attracted the eyeballs. If that is true, then the big question is "what happens from here?" If they now move into stories that are not about sexuality, then I'd argue all is well. Sexuality is part of the backdrop, as it should be...not forefront.

Yeah, that's kinda basically it.

I can respect and praise and fall down at the feet of ATWT for putting two gay teenagers together and having them kiss and do the nasty. But that's where my positive feelings about Nuke end. If they were a straight couple, they'd be as much of a nobody-couple as most of the other couples on this show currently are. There was no "love story" or "courtship" or any of that. They were superficially thrown together to gather attention and to break ground, they've done it, and now it's time for a real couple to take their place kthxbye.

Haven't all of Nuke's storylines so far been primarily about their sexual orientations, however cloudy? Luke single-handedly built a closet for Noah, put him in it, yanked him out of it. Col. Mayer shot his son's gay lover and went nuts. Noah married ol' Ameera and had to hide being gay and with Luke from the feds, sending Luke into whiney little girl territory. Kevin's cronies attack Luke's sexuality during the election, causing Luke to retaliate by rigging the election (which was actually some interesting stuff, IMO, and probably the closest thing to non-orientation driven story for them). Luke is kissed by grandma's closeted husband and likes it.

The way I see it, their orientation is always a factor in their storylines because they always have to remind anybody who's listening that yes, they are gay. That includes the Perez Hilton type ATWT "fans" who couldn't tell Martha Byrne from Noelle Beck. They made the news when they simply announced that they were gonna to create the character of Noah. They made the news when Luke and Noah kissed. They made the news when Luke and Noah didn't kiss. All of the publicity that they get goes no deeper than them being gay. The fact that they are gay (well...that Luke is gay, at least) is the only thing, the only thing, that keeps them from being a mere footnote (if that!) in soap history.

Ugh. I should just create a thread on the Love/Hate board.

Edited February 5, 200916 yr by All My Shadows

I think Luke's a very interesting character. He's got the good and bad of his parents (adopted and biological), and he's more than just his sexual orientation. Noah's not as interesting but I don't mind, he's a good partner for Luke and I can't expect anything out of ATWT. Just look at the other teen characters. Casey's charms come only from the actor's sense of humor and hard body. Allison manages to be crushingly dull even though she's a former meth addict and porn star. Jade's a plot device.

Mark, I do agree how easy it is to forget how far ATWT has come compared to what we once got to see. Even compared to most of what we see today. Fans deserve better, I have no expectations this story is going to not send me fleeing within 6 months, but I think the story so far, and even the way they handled their first time, was better than most of what is out there on TV, daytime, or primetime, even most cable.

Haven't all of Nuke's storylines so far been primarily about their sexual orientations, however cloudy?

All of the stories were basic outlines of soap stories, only with a twist. A love triangle. A psycho parent. A green card marriage. All those stories have been done to death with straight couples. I don't think they had a heavy focus on sexual orientation. Luke's stories with the election and Brian were more about his own complex and self-loathing than just being gay.

ATWT has some very shoddy couples on the frontburner at the moment (Paul/Meg, Dusty/Meg, Parker/Liberty, Allison/Casey). No chemistry, and annoying to watch. I think Nuke would still rank above them even if they weren't a gay couple, because of the chemistry.

Edited February 5, 200916 yr by CarlD2

I think Luke's a very interesting character. He's got the good and bad of his parents (adopted and biological), and he's more than just his sexual orientation. Noah's not as interesting but I don't mind, he's a good partner for Luke and I can't expect anything out of ATWT. Just look at the other teen characters. Casey's charms come only from the actor's sense of humor and hard body. Allison manages to be crushingly dull even though she's a former meth addict and porn star. Jade's a plot device.

A lot of that is subjective (just like Nuke is), so it's all in the eye of the beholder. I do agree that Luke is a very interesting character, and that they could do a LOT with him. Being with Noah totally limits the realization of his potential, IMO.

All of the stories were basic outlines of soap stories, only with a twist. A love triangle. A psycho parent. A green card marriage. All those stories have been done to death with straight couples. I don't think they had a heavy focus on sexual orientation. Luke's stories with the election and Brian were more about his own complex and self-loathing than just being gay.

I disagree, albeit respectfully. The love triangle was all about Luke getting Noah to come out of the closet. According to the hardest of hardcore Nuke fans, Noah never had any real feelings for Maddie at all. Psycho parent was a psycho because his son was gay and had a boyfriend. I'll give you the green card marriage one...their sexuality was a bit downplayed there and could have been worse, but it still had a great deal to do with it (which makes sense).

ATWT has some very shoddy couples on the frontburner at the moment (Paul/Meg, Dusty/Meg, Parker/Liberty, Allison/Casey). No chemistry, and annoying to watch. I think Nuke would still rank above them even if they weren't a gay couple, because of the chemistry.

Again, that's subjective.

Wow...that makes me think. Is it their "gayness" that makes them interesting? Are they otherwise uninteresting?

Maybe, just maybe, you're right...at least for Noah. For Luke, there is a history and a connection to core families and ... yes ... even an interesting personality that sometimes gets him into trouble. So, I think having the tale anchored by Luke makes it stronger.

But, also, let's assume that "gayness" is what attracted the eyeballs. If that is true, then the big question is "what happens from here?" If they now move into stories that are not about sexuality, then I'd argue all is well. Sexuality is part of the backdrop, as it should be...not forefront.

Exactley...Luke has ties to the canvas but Noah doesnt have any ties and he isnt a well rounded character enough on his own, he is just a "boyfriend," to Luke. (for what it is worth they should have drawn out the storyline where the two first got together, with the kind of longing yet denial that O and Nat and countless soap couples have gone through.)

I saw a few episodes where Luke was running for something against some Kevin kid...those two had much more chemistry and a good old soap animosity which would make their dynamic interesting.

I guess I like my soap relationships kind of dense and complicated. I had thought they were going to make Jonathon a bisexual skank on GL, with both poor Sandy and the insipid Tams longing for him and hateing him at the same time....so they naturally turn to each other and have a sexless marriage. Kind of an Ed/Holly/Roger triangle with a bit of a twist. TP seemed to be playing the subtext on that, getting up on Sandy's bed when he was in the hospital and humping him as he taunted him. Eventually Sandy could find a nice guy and ride off in the sunset with him, but the ride along the way could be long and drawn out and kinda sick. And we would have avoided turning Jon into a dull antihero in love with one of the blandest heroines in GL history.

It would be fun to have a bisexual no apologies he will use his sexuality to get what he wants (kind of Reva's sexual ID, subverted and out of control, come to life) kind of character. Of course since they all had the same tatoos I would have made Jon and Sandy the rent boys working under Jeffie O'Neil and their sicko pimp....(and had him fall of the lighthouse as justice is served) ..what fun it could have been to watch the homophobes AND the Brad Cole freaks go postal over that twist in the story.

Exactly...Luke has ties to the canvas but Noah doesnt have any ties and he isnt a well rounded character enough on his own, he is just a "boyfriend," to Luke. (for what it is worth they should have drawn out the storyline where the two first got together, with the kind of longing yet denial that O and Nat and countless soap couples have gone through.)

Mhm!

I saw a few episodes where Luke was running for something against some Kevin kid...those two had much more chemistry and a good old soap animosity which would make their dynamic interesting.

And we also knew why Luke had feelings for Kevin. Why does Luke have feelings for Noah?

I guess I like my soap relationships kind of dense and complicated. I had thought they were going to make Jonathon a bisexual skank on GL, with both poor Sandy and the insipid Tams longing for him and hateing him at the same time....so they naturally turn to each other and have a sexless marriage. Kind of an Ed/Holly/Roger triangle with a bit of a twist. TP seemed to be playing the subtext on that, getting up on Sandy's bed when he was in the hospital and humping him as he taunted him. Eventually Sandy could find a nice guy and ride off in the sunset with him, but the ride along the way could be long and drawn out and kinda sick. And we would have avoided turning Jon into a dull antihero in love with one of the blandest heroines in GL history.

It would be fun to have a bisexual no apologies he will use his sexuality to get what he wants (kind of Reva's sexual ID, subverted and out of control, come to life) kind of character. Of course since they all had the same tatoos I would have made Jon and Sandy the rent boys working under Jeffie O'Neil and their sicko pimp....(and had him fall of the lighthouse as justice is served) ..what fun it could have been to watch the homophobes AND the Brad Cole freaks go postal over that twist in the story.

Very well then, I believe I've just pissed my pants. Seriously though, Sandy would have been HOT with any guy. Scott Bailey was in a Lifetime movie a couple of weeks ago where he played this guy's boyfriend. The guy ends up killing himself because his mother is all fundamentalist.