The Politics Thread

[DRW50]

How does a Democrat lose Ted Kennedy's Senate seat?????

Yeah, Obama deserves some blame, but from all I have read, this Martha Coakley ran an abysmal campaign.

And now this seat has gone from being held by a gay rights champion to someone who thinks same-sex parenting is "not natural."

Ugh.

[Toups]

I don't know much about politics but Massachusetts should be ashamed of themselves. Massachusetts is suppose to be a liberal state, WTF happened?

Way to go Massachusetts!

I also don't know much about the American Health Care, but as a Canadian, it boggles my mind how a lot of people don't want universal health care. And now with Brown willing Mass. there's a good chance the health care bill won't get passed? That's horrible. When it comes to health care, I'm so glad I'm in Canada. I never want to get seriously injured in the States. If I'm in the US and I get hurt and it's not life threatening, someone's going to drive me back to Canada! I'll rather be in pain for a couple of hours than have to pay thousands of dollars in medicals bills. I just can't believe people can't get medical help because they can't pay for it. What kind of a world is that?

[DRW50]

It's easy for people to get confused about health care, especially with scare tactics from the big pharma companies. The Democrats, in 1993 and today, seemed to have no idea how to sell this to the public. The loudest voices will always get attention and Democrats forgot that.

This Martha Coakley apparently sat on a lead for months. She did not campaign (I believe she told the media she didn't want to be outside and freeze), she ran few ads. She did not define herself to voters. Meanwhile, the Republican was putting out bio ads and concentrating on letting people see his good looks. He also ran heavily on opposing health care.

Even at the end, she seems to be deluded.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0110/Coakleys_concession.html?showall

This will just make Democrats run to the right, or cower in fear, and make any legislation even more difficult to pass.

[Toups]

It's so obvious the American gov't is run by big companies, whether they are big oil companies or big pharmaceutical companies - they do whatever they can do get more money into these businesses. If they think they're going to lose money, they will spend more money on scare tactics. I really hate scare tactics....and some people actually buy into it.

That's brutal.

So what's the big issue about the health care bill? Can't people just think, like I do (LOL): "Okay, so I'll pay a little more in taxes that will help others in need of health care. But when I get sick or injured, that money eventually comes back to help me out." When I go see a doctor I just show my health care card and I don't pay anything out of my pocket right away. How is it possible that other countries are able to survive with universal health care.....but America can't? Come on. Universal health care needs to start somewhere and it's not going to be perfect, but you can slowly fix that. Just get it done now. Whenever I hear horror stories from Americans, I just shake my head.

[DeeeDee]

Racism & Classism is a bitch.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

There's a lot of propaganda involving the universal health care stuff, a lot of Americans are so gullible and think universal health care means a huge shift to socialism.

The word "socialism" is so scary to a lot of Americans.

My experience with universal health care in the UK, when I was there a few years ago, was fantastic and easy. But much of America is consumed by bureaucratic red tape.

Martha Coakley's campaign was.

It should serve as an example to other politicians, never give up seriously campaigning when you're in the lead and it looks as if you have no real competition. Getting your name and vision out there is too damn important.

Ted Kennedy is spinning in his grave...

Edited January 20, 2010 by Y&RWorldTurner

[DRW50]

For many years the rule with a Senate vacancy in Massachusetts was you would have the governor appoint someone for the rest of the term. In 2004, because of fears that Mitt Romney would appoint a Republican to replace John Kerry if Kerry won the Presidential race, the Democrats in the legislature changed the law so that a special election would be called.

Kennedy tried to get them to change it back before he died, but it didn't happen.

[alphanguy74]

People are motivated out of fear. But in this case, they WERE afraid of the health care bill. It was too big, too confusing, and people don't trust politicians anymore. If they want to get meaningful health reform passed, they are going to have to SPOON FEED IT to the american public, so their little pea brains can grasp it. They need to dissect the health care bill, and pass each point individually. So everyone can understand every aspect of what's being passed. If they do it this way, the Repubs will have a much harder time standing in the way without it being political suicide. Start out with the pre-existing conditions thing. Then an expansion of medicaid to cover ALL people under 150 percent of the poverty level... and so on and so on. I'd love to see the Republicans put up roadblocks in front of a bill requiring insurers to cover autistic children... I'd just LOVE to see THAT.

Edited January 20, 2010 by alphanguy74

[UCLAN]

I totally agree with this. Healthcare does need to be doled out in small doses. Of course it doesn't say much about our "peas brains"

In response to Max, as a die hard Democrat, I was somewhat disappointed in Obama's first year...but not in him...in the system. I didn't buy into the lofty "change" rhetoric, cause change happens slowly over time. Our economic state plays a big part in how people are feeling (except people did spend tons out here in Pasadena over a week's time). I think that's where all the angst is coming from. The president showed himself to be a measured delibrate thinker. A few missteps, and a few good turns.

[Max]

The reasons why the American public is so opposed to government-run health care are two-fold: First, ordinary citizens will no longer be able to choose their doctors under a government run health plan. Second, in the event that you need urgent surgery, you will be placed on a waiting list (and may have to wait over a year, even if you have a life threatening illness). Because of these tremendous weaknesses, those Canadians who can afford it choose to go to the USA for treatment (if they are gravely ill).

The Democrats have already tried to push for government-run health care back in 1993-94, and it resulted in a mid-term election slaughter for them. What makes zero political sense to me is that the Democrats are behaving in the exact same way now, yet seem to be in denial that this upcoming mid-term election is going to be a disaster.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Max

[alphanguy74]

Max, I don't think any of those fears are based in fact. it's just propoganda that the right wing puts out, because they are scared to death that poor people will get health care, and THEY will have to pay for it with higher taxes. that's what it all boils down to. And besides, the public option is GONE... has been for a while, what's the problem now? I have several friends who are natural born canadians, and they say that waiting lists for urgent surgeries is complete BS. There are waiting lists in a FEW places for things like hip replacements or other things that aren't life threatening... but do you honestly think people are having to wait months to have a cancerous tumor removed? Canadians would be in the streets with torches if that stuff was going on.

Edited January 21, 2010 by alphanguy74

[Toups]

What do you mean choose their doctors? LOL

You don't seriously believe that do you? That's a scare tactic politians use to, well, scare you. If you need urgent surgery, or something life threatning needs to be treated, you go "ahead" of the line. It's only when you have something that's not life threatning, you have to wait. It's called common sense.

Yeah, that's a small percentage. Of course if you have the money, you can go to Europe, USA, Mexico, wherever.

[Toups]

Exactly!! Glad to see someone who understands our system and who knows better than to believe those people who try and scare people.

[Max]

I apologize for waiting so long to respond (as I was unable to use the internet the past couple of days), but I would like to address the points made by Toups and Alphanguy.

First, the law of supply and demand is the reason why some Canadians are not able to see the doctor(s) of their choice. In a government-run health care system, virtually every single physician quickly gets booked to the max (and can take on no more new patients) since everybody can afford his or her services. By contrast, in a free market system, doctors are able to avoid the problem of being overbooked by charging a fee that not everybody is willing to pay (or can afford); this provides openings for those patients who want to see a particular physician or specialist (assuming, of course, that they can afford it).

Secondly, wait lists in Canada are not just limited to "non urgent" matters (although I would hate to wait six monts or more for a hip replacement). Sometimes, those with life-threatening illiness are affected: according to Canadian Dr. David Gratzer (who wrote a book about the weaknesses of his country's health care system titled "Code Blue"), a woman with breast cancer had to wait four months for radiation therapy. A few years ago, Dr. Gratzer wrote an article titled "The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care" that can be found at the following link:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

Anyway, even though we disagree over the topic of a government-run health care system, I still really appreciate reading the opposing point of view. Toups, I am happy that you are content with the Canadian health care system, and I applaud you for articulating what you believe to be its positivies. Unfortunately, here in the Unites States, the Democratic Party has uttery failed to articulate how a government-run health care system would benefit the ordinary American (who is already insured). This failure of getting their message across (on the part of the Democrats) is especially baffling when one considers Obama's extraordinary communication skills.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Max

[alphanguy74]

I've heard arguments on both sides, Max.... so either someone is lying, or there are ISOLATED problems with wait times that are used as anecdotal evidence. I think if there was widespread issues of people not getting treatment there would be PICKETING, PROTESTS, SOMETHING other than an occasional magazine or newspaper article by some guy. The picture this guy in the article paints, Max... does not line up with the public attitude in Canada. If someone is going to DIE without treatment, theyr'e not going to just sit down and shut up. And if a government run option is going to cause rationed care... then tell me this, how come Medicare hasn't caused that already? My personal opinion is that THIS is what needs to happen:

1: Require ALL hospitals to be non-profit. about a third of them already are (the catholic hospitals)

2: Require utility companies to provide service to hospitals at COST (Require this for schools and all government buildings as well... it's the price they pay for selling to a captive audience, after all, do you have a choice of providers for your electricity?)

3: Deny ANY government assistance or payment, INCLUDING medicare to anyone making over 200,000$ per year.

4: Provide Medicaid to ALL people making under 200 percent of the poverty level (Around 20,000$ for a single person) and allow people with incomes from 200%-300% of the poverty level to buy into Medicaid for a small monthly charge (like around 50$ per month per person)

5: People who have income between 30,000$ and 200,000$ would be on their own to get insurance, but eliminate the pre-existing condition thing... , however, people in this bracket would fall into medicaid if they didn't have insurance and their medical bills in one year totalled more than 30 percent of their yearly income.

6: INCREASE the amount of nurse practitioners TWENTY FOLD (People are begging for jobs, let's TRAIN THE SOB'S!) And let them handle all the piddly crap so the doctors don't get bogged down with 5 million people who have a freaking head cold.

Now, I know your'e going to say... WEALTH RE-DISTRIBUTION, and the RICH would have to pay increased taxes and get nothing from what theyv'e paid into it? YES. The taxes are like an insurance policy, if they fall on hard times, if they lose their shirt, then they CAN partake. My GAY, CHILDLESS butt has to pay several hundred dollars a year in Real Estate taxes to give straight people's children a FREE education. If they can re-distribute MY wealth to to people who breed like cockroaches, then I can expect some medical care in return if my income is low enough for me not to be able to afford it.

Edited January 24, 2010 by alphanguy74