The Politics Thread

[quartermainefan]

And this is supposedly a great political leader.

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It's frightening. The economy is in trouble, so lets pray. Well, there is a great policy sure to balance all budgets. I only wish I can vote twice for this guy because his economic policies and cures are things Wharton and MIT never thought of.

I'm jewish but I too will lift up my cry to Jesus! I want to make a sound that will be made in heaven. I wasn't planning on fasting but I could stand to drop a few pounds.

And this is who they think should run for president. It's mind boggling.

[MichaelGL]

George W. Bush's biggest mistake, and yeah there were quite a few of them, yet the biggest one was not raising taxes to finance the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Taxes are always raised to fund wars, most notably when George H. W. Bush raised taxes, it was to fund the war in Iraq in the 90s. It did cost him the presidency, but it was also a hard reality he had to accept; to increase revenue to pay for the war in the middle east.

[GoldenDogs]

Hey, Q-Fan...

I'll be the first in line to contribute my fair share and certainly more if events call for it... Americans have always sacraficed for a greater good. The problem is that nobody can define what the greater good is that our money today is going to. Think about it... Stimulus money, government loans to the auto companies, GE... All of this money well-spent? I guess I personally dig in my heels when asked to contribute more when much of what we've given has already been pissed away on foolishness and nonsense. My mom is on social security and medicare and wholly recognizes that cuts to these programs are inevitable to keep them viable.

I frankly wouldn't mind a modest increase in my taxes IF the government also makes a compromise... I'm sure we could all identify numerous social programs and/or services that should be reduced or eliminated altogether. There is massive waste in government - we all know this. I'm the kind of person who would also dig in his heels and be unwilling to give more of my money to support waste... The government does NOT have a good track record spending our money wisely. In the marketplace, I don't keep buying items or paying for services that don't measure up. We should honestly demand the same from government.

This isn't a partisan issue for me... Both parties have abused the public trust and neglected their responsibilities. There was never a spending bill out of Congress that Bush didn't like and Obama's economic policies have failed miserably (Dems held Congress the first two years of Obama's presidency and could have accomplished SOMETHING if they REALLY wanted to).

But I really can't argue the substance of your post, Q-Fan... great information and I appreciate it.

[DRW50]

Are we on the way to having a "Super Congress"?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/23/super-congress-debt-ceiling_n_907887.html

[quartermainefan]

But that's not true at all. The 1990s were a boom time, and look what America did next: decided "why should I pay for them?" and cut taxes. Then the wars came and there was no draft and Bush bribed everyone with some dumb $600 check to go shopping, and people still didn't want to pitch in and wanted taxes even lower. Then the country went broke and instead of saying "we have to take care of everyone" conservatives want to cut the social safety net even as they refuse to raise taxes. So when it comes to modern conservative theory, where is this sacrificing for the greater good?

The joke of it all is that while conservatives bemoan welfare and government subsidies, a run down of the states that get more federal dollars than they send to Washington, is state after state the reddest of red states. The very people who hate liberals and NY and the north and see me and my state and city as socialist anti-american atheist abominations, are the very people who come around every year with their palm facing up demanding a hand out. For all the republican talk about everyone has to be self reliant, how is it that it is the republican dominated states that are charity cases, and it's broke NY and CA that send more money to Washington every year than it gets back? And then these same states that take all the liberal tax dollars turn right around and say we are not real americans and and are socialists. Well we have to be socialists, because if we didn't use the government as a way to funnel money to Podunk, Green Acres and every other hick town in some backwoods state that doesn't believe in education, they'd starve.

I have no problem with government loans to auto companies. What was the cost of the loan, $14 billion? And lets think about all the jobs and cars that money went and saved. Now think how long $14 billion lasts in Iraq and Afghanistan, a week? Maybe two? So it is priorities. Do you consider the auto industry less or more important than two weeks in Kabul? And then if you think they are both important, well, take that 14 billion and drop it in the bucket that is the money that would have been saved if the Bush tax cuts expired. I think with the auto industry Obama did good. They're still there making cars, and if we can spend a trillion to save wall street we can spend a few billion to save all those union jobs in Detroit.

[GoldenDogs]

Well, then we have a clear and decided difference of opinion after all. That's fine... I live in California and I pay more than enough of my fair share and am unwilling to give even more to the government so that they can waste it on corporate welfare, social welfare, any war anywhere, or any other hairbrained scheme that seems to be a good idea to politicians but a bad idea to mostly the rest of us.

It was floated years ago and I say it should come back... a flat tax where everywhere pays their TRUE fair share based on a percentage of their earnings. If the government needs more to buy overpriced hammers or toilet plungers, then we all get evenly soaked.

[GoldenDogs]

Q-Fan, I was intrigued by your federal aid to states numbers and did a search... finding differing viewpoints on this. The fact of the matter is that blue vs. red gorging at the federal trough is roughly the same. I found these numbers that differ with your view from the Washington Post:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/06/research_desk_responds_do_cons.html

And it is excerpted here:

First, I took the average amount of federal aid given to states won by Obama in 2008 versus those won by McCain. The Obama state average ($11,097,466,205.93) dwarfs that of the McCain states ($8,579,954,939.86), but that is to be expected, given that McCain's states tend to be smaller, and this measure does not take population into account. So I instead averaged the per capita aid given to each candidate's states.

While that may look dramatic, it is important to remember that a lot of federal aid to states -- Medicaid, welfare, education funds -- go disproportionately to poor cities, and Democratic states tend to be more urban than their Republican counterparts.

How you interpret the data depends on which side of the political fence you're on. All states suckle from the federal breast more than they should... it's because most of them have no clue how to govern. Of course, neither does Washington. We all get screwed.

[quartermainefan]

The tax foundation site (which seems to have info on everything!) has a huge state by state file

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html

and in your link Ezra Klein himself adds

[Max]

Breaking news: Congressman David Wu (D-OR) is resigning as a result of allegations over having made sexual advances towards a fundraiser's daughter.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/26/wu.resigns/index.html?hpt=po_bn1

Wu's district consists of the northwest corner of Oregon, including a portion of Portland. Because it is very Democratic, there is no danger of Wu's successor being a Republican.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Max

[DRW50]

This man is a mess. Did you see the tiger photo?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41725593/ns/politics-capitol_hill/t/oregon-congressman-says-he-took-painkiller/

[DRW50]

What in the hell is this? We're not even a week away from default and the House Republicans are in the middle of a bitter blowup.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60022.html

[quartermainefan]

wow what a shock. Who would have ever imagined Obama would cut a deal where democrats get absolutely nothing and republicans get everything they ask for? Obama caving in is the biggest shock since Claude Rains learned there was gambling going in Casablanca.

[Money]

LMAO at Obama. I'm just shaking my head at how inept this guy is as a leader. His idea of compromise is giving Republicans everything they ask for. Every time he says the word "compromise" he's emasculated even further. He's their bitch. It's a sad for Americans that this guy is probably going to be re-elected by default.

[DRW50]

The problem is that Obama would rather throw a lot of long-held programs under the bus in order to appear bipartisan. There is no real effort to talk to the public about how vital these programs are. Instead he has just gone along with this "let's cut waste" story, when what he knows, and what many people don't, is that those in power see "waste" as things like Social Security, Medicare, and, likely, retirement pay.

[Money]

Americans are screwed either way because the Republicans and the Tea party have proven that all they care about is the rich and they would drive the country into the ground to protect their tax cuts. Obama, instead of being a leader, is so worried about being re-elected, he would rather throw his own party under the bus than take a stand and truly fight for this country. Every time he deflects blame to the 'pubs proves how inept he is. Yes they're opposing him on basically every issue but this guy is being bullied into submission and literally allowing them to define his presidency instead of using his power to make the necessary changes this country needs. Bill Clinton advised him and he actually balked at the idea of using the fourteenth amendment at his disposable since he would rather cater to the same bullies who keep punching him in the face. The fact that he was willing to sacrifice medicare and social security, two staples - that at it's core - is the backbone of not only the democratic party, but the country speaks to the fact that this guy is no better than some of the Republicans. I loathe Republicans, but I can actually respect their fortitude on their principles, as loathsome as those principles are.

It's like I said, he's probably going to be re-elected but not because he deserves it but because he's the lesser of two evils. There isn't even another Democratic contender in sight.