The Politics Thread

[quartermainefan]

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[Max]

While I've done a lot of pissing on Obama's presidency lately, the fact of the matter is that I'm also extremely disappointed in the Congressional GOP leadership. I'm starting to realize that neither political party is looking out for the common man.

There is often a stigma associated with not voting, and many state that those who don't vote have no right to complain. However, I could not disagree more: since it almost always comes down to a choice between a lesser of two evils, a voter is still forced to choose evil. The fact that about fifty percent of all Americans don't vote speaks volumes as to the current dysfunction of the political process.

[DRW50]

What a surprise - the Democrats capitulate more and more, and the Republicans move further and further to extremism.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59223.html

It's a good thing our "liberal" media has more important things to focus on. Like Sarah Palin's movie.

[Max]

The mainstream Boehner is just letting himself get shoved around by the very conservative Cantor. It is as if Cantor is the de facto Speaker.

[MichaelGL]

I might have an ounce of respect for Coburn than I do for most of the Republicans in Congress because of this....he actually suggests tax increases.

Coburn Proposes Budget

[Max]

Michael, I'd be willing to increase taxes on the rich in exchange for cuts in Social Security and Medicare. (It is disingenuous for some Democrats to suggest that tax increases on the wealthy will alone be enough to solve our debt problem; we'll also need to cut entitlements as well.)

The problem is that the far right (excluding Coburn) will not stand for any tax increases, while the far left is unwilling to cut Social Security and Medicare. Obama and the Congressional GOP leadership are afraid of the extremists, and consequently we are finding ourselves in the situation we're currently in.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Max

[DRW50]

I thought that Obama and the Democrats in Congress had agreed to cuts in Social Security and Medicare. That was deemed not good enough by the GOP.

Boehner is now so desperate to pander that he is breaking his own rules about how to push legislation through.

Who cares about the country when you can have more fun thumping your own chest 24/7?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59319.html

[DRW50]

A migraine controversy leads Michelle Bachmann's people to violently shove a reporter. I guess this will just make the base love her even more.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/report-bachman-aides-shove-abcs-brian-ross.php?ref=fpb

[DRW50]

This debt ceiling drama seems to amount to Republicans kick the can down the road, Democrats say, "Why are you kicking that can?" and running after it. Republicans then kick the can again. And again. And again.

So far it seems like we're just going to get more and more cuts. To Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid, and who knows what else. Have a decade of constant cuts done anything to help this country?

I am at the point where I don't even know if I'm going to vote in 2012.

Edited July 23, 2011 by CarlD2

[MichaelGL]

I will never understand this mentality that there should be cuts, and no increased revenue. I just...don't...understand.

Dems give and give until they won't have any of their base voting for them. The Republican hold outs in the House and Senate just take, take, and take, standing by their campaign slogans no matter what happens to this country.

[DRW50]

It's whatever helps the rich. That's all that anyone in power cares about. The poor deserve to be poor, because they're just lazy and worthless. And what's left of the middle class also deserves to be poor. The only ones who deserve what they have are millionaires - they're the true victims, and are unfairly taxed.

Edited July 23, 2011 by CarlD2

[GoldenDogs]

As always, reading this forum (when I do check in) with great interest. Unlike what I recall from a few years ago participating here, I now see a lot of thoughtful and well-composed thoughts on both sides and it's encouraging. I don't agree with all that I read, but at least everyone here is polite and some attempt is made to connect despite differing viewpoints. I'm not saying we could all do better if we were all in Washington, but I'll bet we all couldn't do any worse, that's for sure.

Anyway, I wanted to comment on the budget situation by making a simple point about how my family's budget is handled - granted, you can't compare the size of the government's budget (or lack thereof) with my household income. We do well, can afford what we want, etc. If either one of us lost our jobs, we could manage with belt-tightening and with money we have piled into the savings account because we have made good choices and have NOT lived beyond our means.

So, for most of us here... what do we do when times are lean? How many here immediately march to their employer and ask for more money? We cut back our household expenses, right? Instead of buying filet mignon, we purchase ground beef. Why does the government NEVER DO THAT?

All of us cut waste out of our budgets in a manner that is financially responsible. Why does the government NEVER DO THAT?

I'm not saying that some form of increased revenue for the government is likely possible... but why are WE always the answer when they overspend? Why can't they just stop pissing all the money away on crap?

Those are my thoughts... thanks for listening...

B

[DRW50]

I think the problem is a lot of the cuts that are made are cuts which increase spending elsewhere. There's very little effort made to cut sensibly in ways that will make money in the future. People can blame Obama for the economy, or blame Clinton, but it was the tax cuts of 2001-2003 which were supposed to help us so much. But where have those led us? The idea is that if you give big employers more and more freedom, they will create jobs, but instead it seems like they just cut more jobs, and put more burden on those who are left, at the same salary, or a lower salary. WSJ even coined a cute name for them - McWorkers.

I read somewhere that part of the "compromise" between cutting stuff like Medicaid and Medicare and Social Security is that there will be less of a tax break on corporate jets. Wow. What a sacrifice.

Edited July 23, 2011 by CarlD2

[Max]

Carl, if neither Obama nor the GOP nominee deserves to win, then not voting is the smartest possible choice. Like I stated before, we should not be forced to choose between the lesser of two evils.

I also may decide to vote for nobody in 2012.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Max

[quartermainefan]

According to a site called thetaxfoundation

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

in 1916 a married couple earning $250,000 paid a tax rate of 10%

in 1917 when WWI hit, the same couple, if I read this chart correctly, paid 46% to help finance the war

by 1925 things settled and they paid 25%

when the depression hit and FDR was elected, they paid 58%

by the time of WWII they paid 88%

So there is a logic. Times and huge events come up, expenses get incurred, the government raises taxes to finance the needs of the day. So what happened in recent years? Modern conservative thought has adopted this new theory that when times are good you cut taxes (Bush tax cuts) and when times are bad you cut taxes (today). How does that economic theory make any sense? Someone had to pay for all the bombs and soldiers, but nobody wanted to raise taxes to pay for this adventurous US policy. Now Obama is president and the very same people who just two years ago were all for financing wars on Visa and Amex suddenly want balanced budget amendments. They don't need an amendment for that, they just need Bill Clinton to tell them what to do.

The tax rates today are historically on the low end of the spectrum of the last 100 years. Not coincidentally, more and more money is being consolidated by an ever narrowing top tier of society. These people don't even want to cut loopholes for the wealthy. I never heard of a politician saying "I am pro loophole. I am pro legalized tax evasion if you have a good accountant" but there you have the republican position as it stands currently. And then to turn right around and want to cut social security and medicare? When each bomb costs tens of millions of dollars? If that is not class warfare, then I don't know what is.

Edited July 24, 2011 by quartermainefan