The Politics Thread

[DaytimeFan]

You don't even need to innovate a new system. Canada, Germany, UK, Australia, Singapore, Japan, France ETC ETC ETC all have universal free healthcare. The United States of America is the *only* developed Western country that does not have it. It's all about the money that insurance companies make in America, they lobby the hell out of every member of Congress and Senate, lobby the doctors and nurses, lobby with the pharmaceutical companies etc.

Anyone who thinks it's about quality of care is delusional. It's about the money.

[quartermainefan]

Some republican will show up to call you a socialist out to control our lives for saying this. In Sarah Palin's America it's every man for himself and if you need a doctor you can barter chickens for maybe some help. And if your daughter needs birth control tell her to hold an aspirin between her knees. As Rush Limbaugh informed us anyone who wants birth control is a slut and should run their sex tapes online so we can at least get something for our money for financiing their sex. Your high falutin' snobbish college grad socialist ideas (Rick Santorum told me all about you) are not welcome here, now quick pass me a semi automatic so I can go hunting. I know my rights!

Edited March 3, 2012 by quartermainefan

[DaytimeFan]

LOL. Exactly. It's beyond logical reasoning. I love how police officers and fire fighters are never accused of being a socialist tool for controlling the masses, yet doctors and nurses and medical imaging departments, socialists if they're happy to help everyone.

Fortunately, I live outside the reach of the Republican party these days.

[quartermainefan]

Conservative columnist David Brooks summed up the plight of the republican party in this week's Times:

[DaytimeFan]

David Brooks is right. It's really interesting how the Republican party has morphed, in a relatively short period of time, in comparison to other conservative parties around the world, from the classic conservatism that was focused mostly on fiscal policy and keeping small government, to an evangelical vehicle that no longer speaks to many of the people who used to identify with the party.

Love them or hate them , Nixon, Ford and Reagan wouldn't fit into the Republican party that exists now and America is all the poorer for it.

[alphanguy74]

And the health care plan that NIXON proposed is not that different from Obamacare... and every time I throw that in the face of conservatives, they remain strangely quiet. the thing is... insurance is a SHARED RISK POOL, and THAT is also socialism. People who don't get sick pay premiums, and make up for those who do get sick, and use more than thyev'e paid into. Except that conservatives have been duped into this idea that we need some bogus, money making middle man to administer it all.

[DaytimeFan]

And that's if you can afford to pay insurance.

Let's talk about the working poor. The people who hold down an honest job, pay their taxes and can't make it financially. They are on the lower end of the socio economic scale, they are also the people most likely to get seriously ill due to the fact that they eat poorly, are less educated about their health, don't have the time to exercise, are stressed to the max because they can't keep up with their bills and have less access to preventative health care.

These are the very people who universal healthcare is designed to help. The very people who can't afford to go it alone. The very people who need a safety net to catch them.

These are the very people who often constitute the base that votes in Tea Party and Republican Party candidates. The very same candidates who vote against and rail against universal healthcare, the very program that would benefit the very people who vote them into office.

And then we can discuss prescription medication, another route to bankruptcy for even middle class Americans. Medication is outrageously expensive in America because the legislature is bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical companies. I'm not anti-pharmaceutical, make no mistake. They save lives and work, I use them every single day in my practice. However, nobody will ever convince me that it is ethical to extend patents on medications that in Canada, UK, Australia, Germany, Singapore, France ETC ETC ETC are generic, very low cost and identical in effectiveness.

Americans need to wake up and realize that they are being used and abused by corporations and government agents that do not give one iota of care about them. Compassion is the only cure, for some it is a harsh medicine, but I assure you, it is effective and the patient requires it.

[DRW50]

The David Brooks' of the world annoy me because they enabled the GOP for many years. They often still do. One of the most corrosive elements in today's media is the "both sides do it." The anguished need to find an equivalence to GOP extremism. This is what some call "Broderism," because David Broder (RIP) always liked to remind people that we should all be friends and that gosh, why can't we get along. This causes the center to move more and more towards the right.

Let's look at Limbaugh. He called a woman a slut. He said he wanted to see her having sex. He said she had boyfriends lined up around the block. What is the GOP response? Well, Democrats are mean too, it's their fault. Or, from the party's "moderate" standard bearer, Mitt - oh, I wouldn't have said it that way. What WOULD you have said? How is that type of language in any way acceptable? Is there a nicer way to call her a whore?

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/03/tipping-point-gopers-start-to-turn-on-rush-limbaugh.php?ref=fpa

[alphanguy74]

And the problem is... the republican and tea party use abortion and social conservatism issues to keep these people voting for them, all the while screwing them in their pocketbooks. And, yes.. medication is a huge expense for many... I am VERY careful when prescribed anything, before I decide to take it. I've heard people talk to each other and say things like "Oh, I don't what i'm taking... theyr'e some green pills...." and it shocks me that people do not KNOW what medications they are taking. I'm sure my doctor will try to give me a statin... but I can tell you for sure, I will NEVER take one. In my little limited sphere, i've known of THREE people who's lives were ruined by the side effects. These are big cash cows for the drug companies.

[alphanguy74]

Yeah, Carl... Rush has lost some big sponsors over this, AND people are saying this woman has good grounds for a libel suit. Sleep Number, Quicken, and Legal Zoom have all dumped his show as sponsors. Rush has always bleated about letting private enterprise and free market dictate EVERYTHING... well.... there you go! LOL

Edited March 3, 2012 by alphanguy74

[Max]

To listen to the conversation here, Obamacare has no flaws whatsoever. (And with all due respect, the fact that Nixon proposed something similar is irrelevant, given that liberals hate him and conservatives have long disowned him.) Unlike many conservatives, I personally don't believe that the individual mandate is unconstitutional (though I have a problem with somebody being forced to get something he doesn't want), but the law still has many other flaws, including the following:

*A mandate that employers with at least 50 employees provide government-run health care (or be fined):

http://www.heritage....-jobs-and-wages

Small businesses (as opposed to Wall Street titans) will be hurt most by this provision, as they will be likely to hire fewer people. If the employer has to pay the fine (by choosing to abstain from government insurance), then logic dictates that prices will go up.

*Obamacare will create more than $400 million in subsidies for individuals who purchase government health insurance. With more and more people abandoning private insurance, employers will be less inclined to offer private insurance coverage (as an option) to their employees.

http://www.heritage....s-and-employees

*Obamacare establishes over $500 billion in new taxes:

http://www.heritage....and-the-economy

Because some of these tax increases only affect the rich, they will subsequently be dismissed by the folks here. However, quite a few of these taxes affect corporations; because Willard had it wrong when he stated "corporations are people," all that will result from corporate taxes are higher prices being passed down to all consumers (to compensate for the corporations' extra expense).

*Another provision of Obamacare created the CLASS (Community Living Assistance Services and Support) Program. Yet, even Obama's own deficit commission thought that CLASS cannot exist in its current state because it was so poorly designed and funded.

http://www.heritage....itlement-burden

*Obamacare cuts over $500 billion from Medicare

http://www.heritage....-seniors-access

I concede that is is hypocritical for the GOP to complain about cuts to Medicare. Yet, it is even more hypocritical for the Democrats to be cutting Medicare, especially when you consider that the $500 billion cut is a record reduction. I guess that when Paul Ryan proposes Medicare cuts it equates to "throwing granny under the bus," but it's OK when Obama, Reid, and Pelosi do it.

Aside from the bill itself, there's the way it was passed. Because the Democratic leadership was so impatient to get this bill passed, few members of Congress had time to read the 2,700 page law. Because the liberals had a field day when so few Congressman and Senators found the time to read the "intelligence" against Saddam Hussein (before voting to go to war), I find it funny that they have no problem with people supporting Obamacare without even reading the bill.

Additionally, whenever Obamacare is discussed in the mainstream media, journalists usually mention what a "moderate" law this is. Yet, if this is so moderate, how come neither Olympia Snowe nor Susan Collins could support it? (When the former announced her retirement this week, there was again universal praise for her from Democrats.) Are the two bipartisan senators from Maine also part of the Limbaugh wing of the GOP?

Finally, if Obamacare is so great, how come the president rarely--if ever--campaigns on this issue? Instead, he seems to pretend that this law doesn't even exist and instead focuses all his time on demonizing the GOP and gloating about the "sizzling" economy.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Max

[DRW50]

Collins and Snowe aren't moderate. The idea of moderate has moved so far to the right that Eisenhower is likely now seen as a liberal extremist.

As for ObamaCare itself, I don't think it is perfect, or even close. Unfortunately there seems to be no alternative, beyond giving the rich tax breaks and letting everyone else pay for it.

I still have no idea what Romney, the party's savior, objects to in Obamacare. Here is a 2009 op-ed where once again he supports something which he now opposes. 2009!

http://2012.talkingp...009.php?ref=fpa

Edited March 3, 2012 by CarlD2

[Max]

Carl, although you are entitled to this opinion, you are the first person I know who thinks the two senators from Maine aren't moderates. One Republican you did like in the past--Mike Castle--also could not support Obamacare.

Romney has no right to object to Obamacare, since he provided the blueprint for it! (This is probably the biggest reason why he is doing so poorly in the GOP primaries.) Given how "progressive" Willard has been on health care, he's by far the most liberal candidate the GOP could ever nominate. (Romney's flip-flops are one thing, but his record is the most liberal of every GOP candidate, including Huntsman and Paul; it's funny, though, that the latter two men were/are held in great esteem by the left while Romney is routinely trashed.)

Also, I know that it is mighty crass for somebody to flip-flop on something in just three years time, but I believe it took Barry even less time to break his campaign pledge regarding the closure of Gitmo.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Max

[DRW50]

Romney isn't progressive. He says what he needs to do in order to get elected. He did that in Massachusetts and he is doing that now. If you read some of what he felt before he began running for office, in terms of gay rights and abortion, then you will see how liberal he is.

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2011/11/16/368369/romney-flashback-homosexuality-is-perverse-and-reprehensible/

http://jezebel.com/5851050/the-curious-case-of-mitt-romney-an-abortion-and-eliza-dushkus-mom

Castle wanted to get elected in a Republican primary for Senate. Good luck with that...

Collins has never been known as all that moderate. She is more conservative than Snowe. Snowe is only moderate by today's standards.

[quartermainefan]

Romney is very progressive! He will say whatever he has to for his how progress.

No seriously, it is hard to say what Romney actually is because if he turned around and ran for mayor of NYC he would without hesitation flip all his positions again. This is the heart of his election difficulties, you just look at him and you know he is full of [!@#$%^&*] and will say just about anything to get a vote. He's like the anti-Ron Paul.