Irna Phillips as a Storyteller & Mentor

[SteveFrame]

Douglas Marland was extremely good at giving stories to the broad base of the show. Yes he featured the youth but he also gave Nancy a story as well as Lisa and Lucinda and so many others including Bob & Kim. Even Emma got a lot to do during his years and John.

The Dobsons were good at it too, just not as good as Marland.

The Dobsons as I said really gave David & John a great deal to do. I loved how they made John into more of a leading character and more integrated into the whole Oakdale canvas.

I have always wondered why Douglas Marland gave Penny an adopted daughter and then never used her. I just wonder if he had plans for her daughter, Amy, and they just never came about.

[dc11786]

I was reading Eddie Drueding's Another World page. I hadn't realized Irna Phillips herself was an orphan who had been adopted.

Also, Jacqueline Courtney says at one point Irna Phillips was going to have Alice die in a fire at the summer camp she was being sent to.

[Limenade]

I was really too young at the time to watch TV intelligently, but my reading of Scherming and LaGuardia is that by the time Irna came back to ATWT for one last writing stint, the show was in the midst of stories such as the Stewarts boys' quad: Susan-Dan-Liz-Paul. She disliked the quad so much that she had Liz and Paul killed off (I believe Irna was also not pleased upon learning that Jan House, who played Liz, had some theater engagements outside ATWT, with some revealing scenes). Apparently, the fans weren't thrilled.

But wasn't it also during this final stint that Irna introduced the new character Kim Reynolds? And wasn't Kim considered "unconventional" by "conventional" soap standards, in the sense that Kim, when she first appeared on the scene, was quite independent and had an affair with her sister's husband (Bob)? I never saw any of these episodes, so I can't say if it was a case of an unconventional--and quite contemporary--character and stories, yet Irna's story-telling style and the execution of these contemporary stories seem dated because at the core she was not comfortable of updating the techniques to the 70s?

It just seems ironic to me that after Irna was forced out and before the Dobsons came to contemporize ATWT, the show actually went through a final ratings golden age under the reign of a writing couple that seem to uphold the "traditional" soap story-telling exemplified by the Irna school, and a couple that hasn't been discussed as much: Robert Soderberg and Edith Sommer, who co-wrote the show from 1973-1978. Again, from reading Schemering and LaGuardia, they were the ones who changed Kim from Irna's original concept to a more traditional soap heroine--all the twists and turns Kim went through in her courtship with Dan Stewart because of John and Susan's machinations.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Robert Soderberg and Edith Sommer replaced Irna at both GL and ATWT, and they were then replaced by the Dobson's at both GL and ATWT. Boy, P&G sure was incestuous.

I think Eric once quoted something from a book of his that said by the time the Dobson's took over ATWT, they were in for "emergency surgery" because they show was a complete mess by that point, of course by late 70's soap standards.

[Paul Raven]

Under Soderberg and Sommer,ATWT dropped from #1 after 20 years on top - not that it was their fault,as they had also kept the show there for several years.

P&G replaced them with Ralph Ellis & Eugenie Hunt,who had been working on the show.It was their decision to kill off Dan Stewart ,a major character since the mid 60's.Under them,the ratings dropped further.

They introduced Dr Doug Cambell and his wife Marcia.Doug was involved with Annie.Peter Simon came on as Ian,Dee's new romantic interest.His(estranged? ex?) wife Dana was matched up with Bob.

Beau and Jane Spencer were dropped.

I have also read that Doug Marland wrote the show on an agreed temporary basis in late 79, before taking over GL.Can anyone verify this? If so,what were his stories?

[EricMontreal22]

Marland wrote ATWT for 6 months (or maybe even less--3 months?) in 79--It seems P&G were trying to get him to make their big soaps reverent again and weren't quite sure where to put him--but yeah they (wisely) decided to put him at GL and put GL's writers at ATWT to do for ATWT what they had so successfully done to GL.

P&G throughout the 70s--but I believe in the 60s too--were incestuous--they had a system of "talent charring" because they believed people would tire out at one show for too long--so directors etc were shuffled to diff shows every few years.

[dc11786]

Wasn't Lisa involved with Bennett Hadley, an inn owner who mistook Lisa for his dead wife? I believe it was one of the first gothic storyline Marland attempted. I believe Eileen Fulton enjoyed it as I've seen list "almost Hadley" in interviews when she was asked what her character's name was.

Recently, I read a Doug Marland interview from around the time he arrived at "As the World Turns" saying he only planned to stay 2 to 3 years. He said he felt he liked moving around.

I believe Roy Winsor also believed in the philosphy of switching up writers in order to keep the show fresh.

[SteveFrame]

Bennett Hadley story took place from Feb to Dec 1979.

*******************************************************

To a certain extent yes Roy Winsor agreed with the changing writers thing, but he tended to keep them around for several years - at least in the 50's & 60's. Many times for instance at SFT he lost his writers due to them creating their own shows. When Agnes Nixon left SFT in 1951, he hired Irving Vendig who stayed through 55 when he left to create Edge of Night. He briefly hired Charles Gussman who didn't work out. Soon they got a new producer, director & headwriters. Frank & Doris Hursley were hired and in an unprecedented move were given top billing on the show. They stayed until they left in 1962 to create General Hospital.

Later even SFT started going through shorter periods though before writers were changed. But most of that was due to Proctor & Gamble and not Roy Winsor.

At The Secret Storm where he stayed more involved than he did at SFT and LOL, he didn't seem to change them as often - well after he got a writer that really worked. The first few years (1954 to 1962) even with great ratings, the show couldn't seem to hold onto a writer. They went through 8 writing changes until the Avery's took over 1962 and stayed until 1968 or 1969. Then the bottom fell out for the show in 1969 when Roy Winsor and Gloria Monty both departed the show. They had both been there since day one guiding the show.

***********************************

This is what Schemering said about the Soderbergs and the big reason they got fired:

"In the summer of 1978 the Soderbergs started to fall asleep at the helm, repeating a story on alcoholism and reworking other plots."

Then it talks about the Dobsons:

"Early in 1980, with the ratings dive-bombing, Jerome and Bridget Dobson, who had successfully contemporized The Guiding Light and brought the show its first Emmy as Outstanding Daytime Drama, were called in for emergency surgery."

Schemering mentions the Hadley story too - calling it a "gothic romance lifted right out of Jane Eyre"

[Limenade]

Well, in numbers, this from the Ratings Archive tells how ATWT got toppled over:

1976-1977

1. As The World Turns 9.9

2. Another World 9.0

3. The Guiding Light 8.9

1977-1978

1. As The World Turns 8.6

1. Another World 8.6

3. All My Children 8.4

1978-1979

1. All My Children 9.0

2. General Hospital 8.7

3. The Young And The Restless 8.6

1979-1980

1. General Hospital 9.9

2. All My Children 9.2

3. The Young And The Restless 8.8

...etc.

It seems that the ratings for ATWT remained high until 1977-1978 out of inertia, because of the fact it had held the No. 1 position for so long and people tuned in out of habit. But Marland began writing for GH in 1977, and the tide of changes was just too much for the kind of ATWT that Soderberg and Sommer were writing.

[Mitch]

Well, while the Dobson's may have "contemporized," (isnt that such a 70's word..) the show they also took two steps backwards and seemed to really disregard the history of ATWT. They totally obscured the Hughes family, and seemed to actively resent Nancy Hughes and Helen Wagner, while making David and Ellen Stewart the patriach and matriach of Oakdale (I always felt that both of them were way too dour.) They made Lisa into a total nonentity ditz (both Wagner and Fulton quit during the Dobsons. The Dee is raped story was a retread of their GL story and the show soon became the John Dixon show.

While they did good work on GL, they really werent a good fit for ATWT. GL only had one "core," family to deal with, while on ATWT they had two, and several other major characters (Lisa, Kim, etc) that were tied to the families yet were seperate. Besides the Bauers they really could work around and create new characters and families, and on ATWT they didnt have that luxury and yet the tried to do it anyway.

[Paul Raven]

I agree that the Dobsons stint on ATWT was not as successful as GL.

For a start,it didn't last as long.Was it the writer's strike that saw them depart the first time?

None of the new characters/romances were successful long term.

Kim/Nick-they were married and then he was killed off.

Steve/Carol - not much interest there.Steve didn't take off until paired with Betsy.

Brad /Annie-they divorced-again nothing long term

Bob/Lyla - wasn't pursued

James and Barbara were popular,but he was turned into a villian and her tormentor.

Maybe the Dobsons had different ideas long term and some of these happenings were carried out by succeeding writers.

I'll have to dig out some old SODs.

[EricMontreal22]

True but they did start to help ATWT climb in the ratings didn't they? I think the Dobsons' left on their own accord when they were offered their own soap at NBC...

it's funny Marland basically followed the Dobsons at GH (well with a few writers in between--who drove it into the ground), GL and ATWT

[SteveFrame]

The Dobson's were fired in 1981, but were brought back in 1982 to try and straighten out what had turned into a convoluted mess by the 3 Headwriting teams that were used in the interim (Paul Roberts, Tom King & K. C. Collier).

While true that MacLaughlin and Wagner left during the Dobson reign, Fulton left more due to the convoluted mess that the interim writers had turned Lisa into. Wagner & MacLaughlin quit in april 1981 a few months before Bunim took over and a few months before the Dobsons were fired.

Fulton left the show in April 1983 before the Dobsons returned to the show. She left during K. C. Collier's reign when they had completely turned Lisa into a wimp and taken all the bite out of the character.

I truly hated what the Dobsons did to Chris & Nancy, but I didn't mind the focus on the Stewarts since they had been on the show for 20 years at that point.

[EricMontreal22]

Chris and Nancy left when they were offered recurring didn't they? Eileen Fulton has infamously announced she was leavign ATWAT "for good" four times apparantly.

I always wodnered what Tom King did after he took over for AW from Lemay who he worked for

[Paul Raven]

Tom King worked with Millee Taggart on Loving and Ryans Hope(I think).

They also had a short lived primetime comedy called The Thornes around 87 on ABC.

Helen Wagner left ATWT in 1980.She mentioned that in Jan of that year,Nancy had not appeared once.I think that would have been the first time this had happened.Obviously,she was told that under the Dobsons ,Nancy would be taking a less important role.

This would have been a P&G directive as much as a choice by the writers.

I remember around 81,Doug Marland was told to write off the characters of Barbara,Adam and Sara on GL as they were considered too old.

Mart Hulswit was replaced as he wasn't considered youthful enough as Ed Bauer.

On AW,Beverley Penberthy was fired as Pat and on SFT Billie Lou Watt was fired as Ellie.

Mandel Kramer was ousted on Edge of Night after 20 years.