Jump to content

Valley of the Dolls, '94 Primetime Soap Version


EricMontreal22

Recommended Posts

  • Members

That would have been some irony if Judy Garland had sung the theme song to the movie! I swear, when I read the book (which is trashy pulp, EricMontreal, but enjoyable trash, like Judith Krantz!), all I could picture was Garland in the Neely scenes.

On the issue of skin, I honestly think TV has its priorities screwed. Obviously, I'm not saying network soaps should screen hardcore porn at 2 in the afternoon. But how come an honest-to-god love scene between a pairing you have been rooting for on a TV show is practically verboten? Meanwhile, Law & Order: SVU has no compunction about showing and then dissecting in detail incest/molestation/violent rape? Viewers are worried about "the children" but surely gratuitous violence has more harmful an impact on young psyches than the glimpse of a bare buttock and rolling around under the bedcovers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 40
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Members

ER didn't have a lot of nudity but they would occassionally throw one in there. They were different from NYPD Blue who advertised theirs. I remember the first time being sort of stunned when it happened. The first nudity on ER was between Carol (Julianna Margulies) and her finace Tag. I don't remember who played him. But they had just had sex and he got up out of bed and the camera just kind of focused on his bare butt as he slipped into a pair of pants.

TV Guide and all ran stories on it after that and couldn't believe they didn't try to advertise or publicize it was going to happen. They just chose not too - going the nonchalant route about it.

I agree with Doug Davidson on the issue. When he was asked about doing his first nude scene he made some statments to Soap Opera Digest about it. He said he always had a hard time understanding the reasoning behind the love scenes on Y&R. At that time Y&R did some pretty hot scenes esp. between Paul and Lauren.

Doug laughed and said something to the affect when he is involved in some hot making out at home, he is always naked but when Paul always gets out of the bed with Lauren he has boxer shorts on. He thought that was the most stupid thing ever. So he was glad when he got to get out of bed on this occassion after hot sex with Lauren wearing nothing.

I remember when Tristan Rogers first came on to GH he did interviews where he thought it was so ridiculous some of the standards in the love scenes on American soaps. Back then they had a rule that a man could not lie directly on top of a woman. Soaps are the one's who invented the position they used most often back then. It wasn't exactly man on top of woman but it appeared to be. That was created on Y&R. It is in that stupid Daytime TV Yearly Special book that I cannot find. It even had it's own name. Afterward many other soaps copied it.

Also during the filming of a love scene, both individuals had to have their privates covered, and a woman had to have a bra on and the strap had to be scene by the camera so many times in a given time frame. Also the man and the woman both had to keep one foot on the floor during any bed scene.

I remember Gloria Monty was one of the first to break some of the rules by letting Tony Geary tape his love scenes with Emma Samms in the nude - not sure how Emma felt about that.

Tony told back in the 90's and then again recently on One Day With.... on SoapNet that it was during one of those love scene shoots that his dangling bits aired on ABC in the 80's. He and Holly were in the woods and made love inside a sleeping bag. During the filming, Tony emerged from the sleeping bag completely in the buff. The cameras were supposed to film him from the waste up but they didn't. They filmed all of him - not only back but front. It was supposed to get edited out but didn't.

Tony says he knows someone out there somewhere has that on tape and one day will discover it and his manhood will be all the Internet for all to see. Of course he made some better jokes about it - his shortcomings as he called them.

I just think in many ways too many people are too restrictive in matters like that. I don't want to see porno in the afternoons - if I want porno I will rent one. But I have no problem with two people being in bed and they get up and they are naked.

Or even for that matter let the talk match real life talk too. Punch it up. Make it more realistic in that sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Oh I think I was being a bit too snobby there... I've never read Judith Krantz (maybe I should? lol) but what I meant was that Valley of the Dolls is prob trash pulp of the finest order--but it never quite transcends that. On the other hand I think maybe the best years of some of our classic soaps, *have* transcended that pulp to become something more and "better"--it's all relative and personal opinion I admit. But it's like the 50s and 60s "women's pictures" and melodramas produced by Ross Hunter which I love and wrote a few school papers on for a genre film class--most of them (1961's Back Street is a fave of mine, or Madame X) are over the top pure pulp--high production values but pulp none the less. But the ones he got Douglas Sirk to direct (whow as basically the Hitchcock of his genre of melodrama), like All That Heaven Allows, Magnificent Obsession and Imitation of Life are so artuflly done that they transcend that pulp. But this all gets into issues of taste-what's "art" what's not, and stuff like that which can get pretty silly.

I think Canada is a BIT better about the sex vs violence thing (it amuses me that SoapNet--a cable station--had to cut out the male nudity that caused no reaction when it aire din Primetime here in Canada in MVP) but that has alwasy bugged me. Growing up my parents were strict about what we could watch--but much more strict about gorey violence, than about sex and nudity (violent sex though was obviously the worse). I swear nearly all my friends parents were the opposite--they could care less about a birthday party of 7 year olds renting Pet Semetary (true story) but if there was the slightest bit of nudity would get VERY upset. Something's wrong there.

And as you say now with the success of shows like La w and Order SVU (a good show don't get me wrong), sexualized violence is common place on TV and seems to be more allowed than non violent sexuality. It's like people, and mainstream right wing America in particular (again sorry if I offend anyone :P ) are only comfortable with sexuality when it is violent!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 years later...
  • 11 months later...
  • 3 months later...
  • Members

Okay, on WHAT channel did this show come on? For some reason I can't imagine seeing Sally Kirkland getting her back blown out late nights on UHF.

Some familiar names in the closing credits. They left the "v" out of "Kein Spirtas"' name.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I think this was syndicated in late night.

The show does look pretty good, aside from being overlit. It's funny how many soap actors and personnel were involved in this yet it's never been shown in the US (aside from the first run). There don't seem to be any music issues so I wonder why it isn't out on DVD.

It always kind of skeeves me out when Brian Heidik from Survivor (and soft porn) shows up in random scenes.

It's too bad Kevin Spirtas doesn't do more TV stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I'm glad oldtimesuds resumed posting the episodes.

The editing is rough. I was surprised the massage scene was allowed to go as low as it did even if it was only for a second.

I expected Heidik, but I thought he was going to play Anne's old boyfriend. I was surprised to see he was part of the California set.

Visually, the show looks like something that would air on FOX around this time. I believe the font for the credits is the similar to the one used for 90210. Overall, I've enjoyed what I've seen much more than I thought I would and, while the dubbing is anoying, you can still hear most of the English dialogue if you take the time. The only scene I had real trouble understanding was one of the ones at the ad agency.

I have fallen a bit behind, but has Mitch Henry's lover shown up yet? I'm curious to see how that plays out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I see Warren from GL is in this. Did you catch the disclaimer at the end of one episode, something like, "The mention of AA meetings does not mean that the show is affiliated with AA in any way". :lol:

I finally saw Kamar. The black girl is so fit, her guns remind me of Angela Bassett's in What's Love Got to Do with It?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



  • Recent Posts

    • Excellent Roman and Kayla scenes. Best work I’ve seen from Josh Taylor. That was real emotion there. Awesome comments to wrap up Roman and John. Deidre Hall was once again perfect. When she slightly snapped at Abe and Paulina for asking about the funeral. Just perfect. Hope we get a lot more of Julie with Marlena.  As rude as it is, I wish they would’ve done another Eileen/Stacy switch for this story. Stacy’s Kristen is completely defined by Brady and we don’t get flashbacks. The balls on EJ to show up at Marlena and John’s home. It was so perfect and sad.
    • It could have been interesting, given that she and Alex were friends. I imagine he would have ended up bringing out her Solita personality.  For all the talk of crazy fans, for a long time fans did seem willing to embrace the rivals of...well, Reva's rivals. (no wonder Kim felt insecure as it happened three times with her) You don't seem to get as much of the tribalism until the "Manny" era. I guess some might say "Matessa" too, but as I could not stand Dinah in those years, I am not one to talk about their fans if they managed to repeatedly put the kibosh on a Matt/Dinah pairing. And at least that did not seem to involve death threats.
    • 1976 Pt 4 Viki is stunned to learn from Dr. Jim Craig that her father may never speak or be mobile again. Dorian bravely assures her that she’ll devote her entire life to Victor and if anyone can help him recover, she can. Alone with Victor, Dorian tells him she knows he hears her and she was wrong—she lashed out at him from hurt. She insists that none of it is true, that Tony is lying to try to drive her away and be Victor’s heir. Dorian then accuses Tony of causing Victor’s stroke, saying he could have killed him. But learning that Victor made three phone calls after his visit convinces him that his father was fine after he left and Dorian’s fine hand is at the base of this. Dorian insists that Victor be released into her care as soon as possible; she'll set up all necessary facilities at Llanfair., When Dorian walks in while Viki is reading a letter from Tony to Victor, she interrupts the reading, claiming it’s upsetting Victor. Viki tells Tony, however, that Victor was fine listening to his letter and it was Dorian’s entrance that upset him greatly. Dorian is delighted when a Lord Enterprises attorney informs her she’s going to receive Victor’s power of attorney on a temporary basis. Tony is furious that no one is challenging this, but Viki explains that they can’t do anything, as the law is on Dorian’s side and a challenge would only be a public statement of lack of trust in Victor’s wife. Viki insists that Victor’s welfare is being safeguarded, but Tony points out that. none of the people who care for him are with him at Llanfair. Joe is with Victor when he seems to rally and speaks Joe’s and Dorian’s names. Over Joe’s observation that Victor wants to continue, Dorian quickly administers a sedative, insisting this effort is too taxing. The following day, Peter, at Llanfair to give Dorian some Free Clinic reports she’s requested, overhears Victor say, “Phone . . . get me Hanson” (one of his lawyers) and sees Dorian quickly sedate him again, saying he can’t have any visitors for fear of overexertion. The very next day Victor is taken back to the hospital by ambulance, in a coma. Told that Victor is conscious but near death, and calling for his daughter, Dorian, knowing that Viki and Joe are waiting in the courtyard, intentionally sends the nurse to look for them in Jim’s office, delaying their arrival until Victor is no longer able to talk. Viki sits with him for a few moments, then must leave, and shortly thereafter Jim tells her, Joe, and Tony that Victor has died. . Vinnie is horrified to learn his wife Wanda, is the “Lana-Sheen Lady,” a cosmetics saleswoman. He tells her she violated the trust of their marriage by intentionally concealing that she was working, something he had forbidden, insisting he must be the breadwinner in the family. But Wanda warns Vinnie that there is more to this than the money, that she needs to feel she’s accomplishing something with her life. Vinnie does think it through but questions the safety of going door to door. Wanda then springs Tony’s offer that  work for him at Tony’s Place, initially infuriating Vince, who claims Tony is a wolf. But a visit to the club shows Vince that Wanda does indeed have considerable talents for running a restaurant establishment, and he gives his approval. Despite Cathy’s continued insistence that they not marry but go on as before, Tony is willing to let her have things her way, and their relationship has resumed. Pat tries to reassure her son, who thinks Cathy is not very nice, by explaining that it’s difficult for Cathy to be with children, since she recently lost her own little girl. But the pain of facing Tony and Cathy’s relationship becomes too much for Pat and, needing to tell someone, she confides in Viki the true story of Brian’s parentage.  Viki tells Pat she must tell Tony the truth and she should fight for Tony if she still loves him and give her son his rightful father, especially since Tony and Brian were good friends from the moment they met. Cathy, however, is growing suspicious of the easy closeness between Pat and Tony and questions him about their old relationship. Tony insists that their relationship was a brief romance, too short to be earthshaking, and assures her that Pat didn’t rebound into Kendall’s arms they had known each other long before Rio. But Cathy is not satisfied, and pursues her inquiry in New York, where she finds that Pat didn’t marry Paul until after Brian’s birth. This confirms Cathy’s suspicions, and she decides she has to act now to keep Pat from taking Tony from her. Pat, meanwhile, has decided to tell Tony the truth and arranges a meeting with him. She is stunned when he walks in with Cathy and introduces her as Mrs. Tony Lord. Pat says nothing, and later has to tell her embittered son that he’s going to have to accept Cathy as Tony’s wife whether he likes it or not. Viki, learning of Tony’s marriage, rushes to console Pat, who castigatés herself for having wasted so much time on a man who doesn’t love her. She knows she'll have to tell Brian the truth someday, but is sure that if he learned the truth now he would feel deserted by Tony, just as he feels deserted by Paul. Tony and Cathy’s married life begins on an idyllic plane, with Cathy eagerly making plans for a child. Tony has read Cathy’s book and wonders if she’s not | dealt too severely with a central character who bears an unmistakeable resemblance to Viki. Cathy admits that this is true, and Pat, working with Cathy’s agent, has already suggested revisions. Pat finds Brian having nightmares, and the boy admits his uncertainty about his father’s death, as Paul’s body was never actually identified. Concerned, Tony spends time with the boy, upsetting Cathy, who sees him as a threat. Cathy’s agent mentions to Pat that Cathy interrogated him about the details of her marriage and her child, and Pat suddenly realizes Cathy knows. She confronts Cathy, accusing her of marrying Tony to hold on to him. Cathy tries to insist that she doesn’t know what Pat’s talking about, and counter accuses her of trying to break up her marriage. Pat then leaves, saying they’ll discuss it when Cathy’s ready.
    • Michelle Forbes really captivated GL viewers so it was smart of Long to take advantage of that. When I looked back at news items and letters to the editors, I found so many letters to the editors/columns upset she was not nominated for Best Actress the year before she was nominated for supporting actress.  I read somewhere that they had planned a major storyline with Sonni and Roger but that it never came to pass because Forbes wanted to leave the show. I wonder what they had in mind.
    • May 2025 Episode Rankings A total of 22 Episodes aired this month thanks as always @jcar03!  1.) Michael Mealor (Kyle Abbott) : 14 2.) Eric Braeden (Victor Newman) : 13 3.) Hayley Erin (Claire Newman) : 11 *.) Michelle Stafford (Phyllis Summers) : 11 5.) Jason Thompson (Billy Abbott) : 10 6.) Peter Bergman (Jack Abbott) : 9 *.) Christel Khalil (Lily Winters) : 9 *.) Susan Walters (Diane Jenkins Abbott) : 9 9.) Melissa Claire Egan (Chelsea Lawson) : 8 *.) Mark Grossman (Adam Newman) : 8 *.) Courtney Hope (Sally Spectra) : 8 *.) Josh Morrow (Nick Newman) : 8 *.) Jermaine Rivers (Damian Kane) : 8 14.) Melody Thomas Scott (Nikki Newman) : 7 *.) Zuleyka Silver (Audra Charles) : 7 16.) Sean Dominic (Nate Hastings) : 6 *.) Amelia Heinle (Victoria Newman) : 6 18.) Sharon Case (Sharon Newman) : 5 *.) Bryton James (Devon Winters) : 5 *.) Christian LeBlanc (Michael Baldwin) : 5 *.) Tracey Bregman (Lauren Fenmore Baldwin) : 5 *.) Mishael Morgan (Amanda Sinclair) : 5 23.) Nathan Owens (Holden Novak) : 4 24.) Michael Graziadei (Daniel Romalotti) : 3 *.) Cait Fairbanks (Tessa Porter) : 3 *.) Redding Munsell (Harrison Abbott) : 3 27.) Camryn Grimes (Mariah Copeland) : 2 *.) Allison Lanier (Summer Newman) : 2 *.) Eileen Davidson (Ashley Abbott) : 2 *.) Melissa Ordway (Abby Winters) : 2 *.) J. Eddie Peck (Cole Howard) : 2 *.) Valerie Pettiford (Amy Lewis) : 2 *.) Jai Rodriguez (Pietro) : 2 34.) Kate Linder (Esther Valentine) : 1 *.) Elizabeth Hendrickson (Chloe Fisher) : 1 *.) Beth Maitland (Traci Abbott) : 1 *.) Vincent Stalba (Carter) : 1 
    • Haha, love to hear it, and thank you! Yeah, I just write down thoughts/notes as I'm watching in this viewing journal I'm keeping.  So, you get my raw, honest thoughts in the moment without me having to go back and remember or curate anything.

      Please register in order to view this content

        Watros is great, and I've liked her from the beginning, so I'm excited to see her evolve and shine even more as Annie continues to descend. I'll keep an eye out for that scene.  I have to say, Rick cracks me up, there are times when he makes jokes and you can tell the actor is having fun with it and cracking himself up. He's endearing. Let me suffer!    So funny how big Josh's hair is in the 80s. Sign of the times, I guess.   I can't wait to finally see the Sonni storyline and watch a younger Michelle Forbes shine. It's on my list, I will go back in time eventually and do this  
    • This was late 1993, right before Roger is shot. 
    • Haha I guess so, and in this recent case, Alan absolutely deserved it (many times over, honestly).
    • It's hard to remember, as Holly and Blake always seemed to be on the outs over something.
    • Ohhh yes, these were exciting!  What year was this?  Another added bonus, watching Tangie lurk around like a thief with that black beanie.

      Please register in order to view this content

      I'm happy to hear I'm not alone in my thoughts over Gilly's exit and Vivian's first and likely only contract storyline. It was just a shame. On one hand, I'm glad they decided to finally write for this family (as Gilly was sorely underused in 1995), but then on the other... that was what they decided? Sure, it was a bit soapy, but oh so gross. They could have come up with something better.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy