That would have been some irony if Judy Garland had sung the theme song to the movie! I swear, when I read the book (which is trashy pulp, EricMontreal, but enjoyable trash, like Judith Krantz!), all I could picture was Garland in the Neely scenes.

On the issue of skin, I honestly think TV has its priorities screwed. Obviously, I'm not saying network soaps should screen hardcore porn at 2 in the afternoon. But how come an honest-to-god love scene between a pairing you have been rooting for on a TV show is practically verboten? Meanwhile, Law & Order: SVU has no compunction about showing and then dissecting in detail incest/molestation/violent rape? Viewers are worried about "the children" but surely gratuitous violence has more harmful an impact on young psyches than the glimpse of a bare buttock and rolling around under the bedcovers?

Right I posted about that in another thread about nudity on Soaps a few months back (Once and Again, which is actgually more of a family show though one of my faves, even had several scenes). I just thought Dolls in the first half of the 90s came before networks briefly experimented with that--but I guess I forgot that NYPD Blues started the nudity fairly early on I don't remember ER having nudity.

I read the book as a teen (along with Love Machine and Once IUs Not Enough--alwasy wanted to track down the movies of those, apparantly awful, but John Phillip Law who I've had a crush on since Barbarlla stared in Love Machine and Once is Not Enough even got an oscar nom in acting) and I love it but I do think it's trash. If that makes any sense (i know some will be insulted I called it that). The movie's a camp classic, I'd love to see the miniseries and the soap (at the end of disc two of the special edition they give a website to email if you'd liek to see either on DVD but the site is gone) but neither it nor the novel IMHO are elvated pulp the way really good soap opera are and some otgher classic melodramas--they're justy trashy pulp. And great for that.

Re sex scenes in soaps in the late 80s and early 90s they were at their hottest I think--maybe even the 80s without the nudity. Nudity aside by the late 90s--pre Nipplegate--I already think for some reason soaps had toned down their sex scenes. I still remember being a kid and watching on Geraldo and Donauhue when the conversation was about if soaps were pornographic (!! imagine that now) and should they be on when kids could watch (again with cable etc this isn't even an issue). I remember being shocked by one show that had the actor who played Dimitri on AMC confess that he got a "woody" (his term) during sex scenes! lol

ER didn't have a lot of nudity but they would occassionally throw one in there. They were different from NYPD Blue who advertised theirs. I remember the first time being sort of stunned when it happened. The first nudity on ER was between Carol (Julianna Margulies) and her finace Tag. I don't remember who played him. But they had just had sex and he got up out of bed and the camera just kind of focused on his bare butt as he slipped into a pair of pants.

TV Guide and all ran stories on it after that and couldn't believe they didn't try to advertise or publicize it was going to happen. They just chose not too - going the nonchalant route about it.

I agree with Doug Davidson on the issue. When he was asked about doing his first nude scene he made some statments to Soap Opera Digest about it. He said he always had a hard time understanding the reasoning behind the love scenes on Y&R. At that time Y&R did some pretty hot scenes esp. between Paul and Lauren.

Doug laughed and said something to the affect when he is involved in some hot making out at home, he is always naked but when Paul always gets out of the bed with Lauren he has boxer shorts on. He thought that was the most stupid thing ever. So he was glad when he got to get out of bed on this occassion after hot sex with Lauren wearing nothing.

I remember when Tristan Rogers first came on to GH he did interviews where he thought it was so ridiculous some of the standards in the love scenes on American soaps. Back then they had a rule that a man could not lie directly on top of a woman. Soaps are the one's who invented the position they used most often back then. It wasn't exactly man on top of woman but it appeared to be. That was created on Y&R. It is in that stupid Daytime TV Yearly Special book that I cannot find. It even had it's own name. Afterward many other soaps copied it.

Also during the filming of a love scene, both individuals had to have their privates covered, and a woman had to have a bra on and the strap had to be scene by the camera so many times in a given time frame. Also the man and the woman both had to keep one foot on the floor during any bed scene.

I remember Gloria Monty was one of the first to break some of the rules by letting Tony Geary tape his love scenes with Emma Samms in the nude - not sure how Emma felt about that.

Tony told back in the 90's and then again recently on One Day With.... on SoapNet that it was during one of those love scene shoots that his dangling bits aired on ABC in the 80's. He and Holly were in the woods and made love inside a sleeping bag. During the filming, Tony emerged from the sleeping bag completely in the buff. The cameras were supposed to film him from the waste up but they didn't. They filmed all of him - not only back but front. It was supposed to get edited out but didn't.

Tony says he knows someone out there somewhere has that on tape and one day will discover it and his manhood will be all the Internet for all to see. Of course he made some better jokes about it - his shortcomings as he called them.

I just think in many ways too many people are too restrictive in matters like that. I don't want to see porno in the afternoons - if I want porno I will rent one. But I have no problem with two people being in bed and they get up and they are naked.

Or even for that matter let the talk match real life talk too. Punch it up. Make it more realistic in that sense.

That would have been some irony if Judy Garland had sung the theme song to the movie! I swear, when I read the book (which is trashy pulp, EricMontreal, but enjoyable trash, like Judith Krantz!), all I could picture was Garland in the Neely scenes.

On the issue of skin, I honestly think TV has its priorities screwed. Obviously, I'm not saying network soaps should screen hardcore porn at 2 in the afternoon. But how come an honest-to-god love scene between a pairing you have been rooting for on a TV show is practically verboten? Meanwhile, Law & Order: SVU has no compunction about showing and then dissecting in detail incest/molestation/violent rape? Viewers are worried about "the children" but surely gratuitous violence has more harmful an impact on young psyches than the glimpse of a bare buttock and rolling around under the bedcovers?

Oh I think I was being a bit too snobby there... I've never read Judith Krantz (maybe I should? lol) but what I meant was that Valley of the Dolls is prob trash pulp of the finest order--but it never quite transcends that. On the other hand I think maybe the best years of some of our classic soaps, *have* transcended that pulp to become something more and "better"--it's all relative and personal opinion I admit. But it's like the 50s and 60s "women's pictures" and melodramas produced by Ross Hunter which I love and wrote a few school papers on for a genre film class--most of them (1961's Back Street is a fave of mine, or Madame X) are over the top pure pulp--high production values but pulp none the less. But the ones he got Douglas Sirk to direct (whow as basically the Hitchcock of his genre of melodrama), like All That Heaven Allows, Magnificent Obsession and Imitation of Life are so artuflly done that they transcend that pulp. But this all gets into issues of taste-what's "art" what's not, and stuff like that which can get pretty silly.

I think Canada is a BIT better about the sex vs violence thing (it amuses me that SoapNet--a cable station--had to cut out the male nudity that caused no reaction when it aire din Primetime here in Canada in MVP) but that has alwasy bugged me. Growing up my parents were strict about what we could watch--but much more strict about gorey violence, than about sex and nudity (violent sex though was obviously the worse). I swear nearly all my friends parents were the opposite--they could care less about a birthday party of 7 year olds renting Pet Semetary (true story) but if there was the slightest bit of nudity would get VERY upset. Something's wrong there.

And as you say now with the success of shows like La w and Order SVU (a good show don't get me wrong), sexualized violence is common place on TV and seems to be more allowed than non violent sexuality. It's like people, and mainstream right wing America in particular (again sorry if I offend anyone ) are only comfortable with sexuality when it is violent!

Watching that clip I'm surprised to see that the production values are more similar to a daytime soap. That makes me wanna see it even more! The movies are great.

Well it was a nightly late night thing--not weekly

From a mid/late 94 Soap Opera Update.

The first three episodes of the show are on Youtube, dubbed into a foreign language, with no subtitles. The first two have some male nudity so I can't link, but you should be able to find them.

Wow! I didn't expect that Carl. The show popping up, not the nudity. Shame it's in another language. I'll try and check it out sometime today. Thanks for finding that!

The channel name is something like oldtimesuds, if that helps any.

Oddly enough you can still sort of hear the American words under the dubbing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjUHEv8AJnI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=229Lwgv38Vo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

They also have a third episode up (#8).

I'm not sure these can be embedded - if not, just watch at the link.

Edited January 17, 201213 yr by CarlD2

Okay, on WHAT channel did this show come on? For some reason I can't imagine seeing Sally Kirkland getting her back blown out late nights on UHF.

Some familiar names in the closing credits. They left the "v" out of "Kein Spirtas"' name.

I love the early nineties video tape look of this show. Totally looks like something I would have watched late summer nights in my finished basement with the AC blaring.

I think this was syndicated in late night.

The show does look pretty good, aside from being overlit. It's funny how many soap actors and personnel were involved in this yet it's never been shown in the US (aside from the first run). There don't seem to be any music issues so I wonder why it isn't out on DVD.

It always kind of skeeves me out when Brian Heidik from Survivor (and soft porn) shows up in random scenes.

It's too bad Kevin Spirtas doesn't do more TV stuff.

I'm glad oldtimesuds resumed posting the episodes.

The editing is rough. I was surprised the massage scene was allowed to go as low as it did even if it was only for a second.

I expected Heidik, but I thought he was going to play Anne's old boyfriend. I was surprised to see he was part of the California set.

Visually, the show looks like something that would air on FOX around this time. I believe the font for the credits is the similar to the one used for 90210. Overall, I've enjoyed what I've seen much more than I thought I would and, while the dubbing is anoying, you can still hear most of the English dialogue if you take the time. The only scene I had real trouble understanding was one of the ones at the ad agency.

I have fallen a bit behind, but has Mitch Henry's lover shown up yet? I'm curious to see how that plays out.

I see Warren from GL is in this. Did you catch the disclaimer at the end of one episode, something like, "The mention of AA meetings does not mean that the show is affiliated with AA in any way".

I finally saw Kamar. The black girl is so fit, her guns remind me of Angela Bassett's in What's Love Got to Do with It?