Someone fire Goutman!!!! Someone fire Pissant......Get this two fired NOW!!

[Ann_SS]

Again, the ratings have nothing to do with the writing. A new headwriter may improve the quality, but the soaps are in decline as a tv genre. Wailing on CG and JP is simply a useless waste of time.

I wanted to add: One thing I will blame CG and JP for is the large number of bad actors that ATWT has hired over the last 2 or 3 years and are currently featuring in a major stories. It is really too bad because ATWT for decades had one of the most talented casts in Daytime with strong younger actors.

[WorldTurner]

It does have to do with bad writing. None of the stories make sense. The writers can't even remember what they wrote 2 years ago. It's all plot driven and a lot of viewers don't like that. The fact that all soaps have dropped doesn't excuse bad writing. If it was all soaps ATWT would still be in 3rd place like they were a few months ago. A lot of long term viewers are simply turning it off because it has gotten so bad and you can't replace that very easily.

[dragonflies]

Really? So then the fact that the show is badly written isn't affecting ratings? Yeah sorry don't agree. Bad writing does affect ratings. Name one thing on this show that makes sense? Just about every character is unrecognizable, and the storylines don't make sense.

I'm sorry but this is a cop out. So to hell with a new head writer, soaps will decline no matter what? I'm sorry but IMO this kind of attitude is what is a part of the problem with soaps

[GHJunkie4Life]

Umm Y&R is a perfect example of what that poster said however...

Everyone was crying LML to leave. She's gone. She's over and done with. Yet the show still stinks for the most part. The ratings have gone further DOWN.

So how do you explain that?

[Ann_SS]

GHJunkie4Life, another even better example is OLTL. Just about every OLTL fan on the more popular soap message boards agree that the writing for the show has improved under RC and I concur with this widespread held opinion. Yet OLTL's ratings continue to decline just like the other soaps with only the occasional bump. This idea that new improved writing team will stop the ratings decline in the soap industry has been shown to be false. Like I said before, it doesn't been that the quality of storytellng and acting cannot be improved, but in the end it simply does not translate into sustained improved ratings. We are simply in a time where the audience does not tune back into the soaps en masse once they tune out.

I'll never forget being attacked by SON posters when I took the position that LML was okay at Y&R and that she just needed an experienced soap hand to reign her in. I was assured that the Y&R would bounce back as soon as LML was fired. Instead what happens? Between the scabs and MAB/JG, Y&R's ratings have tumbled into 3.0s.

[GHJunkie4Life]

I try not to take it too personally but I know how you feel. I use to be on another board and people would go on these rants against her for days and days about this and that....as if I was LML. When I'm just simply a viewer who happens to enjoy the show for the most part.

I completely forgot about OLTL and I'm glad you brought it up.

[unlimitedjason]

I find it so sad that ATWT and GL are slowly being put out-- and the ratings system doesn't take in account the rising costs in cable/satellite, online viewers, and podcasts.

I do agree that ATWT and GL need new heads-- because the current ones have lost all their marbles.

[dragonflies]

Yeah and what have most Y&R fans complained about, even with the new writer? Bad writing. I'm not saying that bad writing is the sole reason ratings go down, but it's a big factor.

You can't go from one bad writer to another, or from a bad writer to one who makes the show so dull you'd rather have a root canal.

Plus IMO it takes time to earn back your audience's trust. You can't expect them to tune back in immediately just because there's a new HW.

[MarkH]

The ratings DO NOT support your conclusion. ATWT and GL are declining, but not at rates faster than the rest of the genre.

Trust me, I WISH there was a direct relationship between writing and ratings, but there simply is not. Soap watching is a habit, and people pretty much hold on long after the writing sucks. People ARE turning out...I'm not disputing...but at rates similar across the board at all soaps.

I hear you...but plot the ratings trends across soaps. They are all declining at more or less the same rate. Two excellent examples follow:

Exactly! Most people will say that Y&R is better than it was toward the end of LML's era. But Maria Bell has lost far more viewers than Latham did...indeed, for portions of Latham's era she GAINED viewers. So...worse writer = better ratings; better writer = worse ratings.

This is just a much more complex phenomenon than the writing. Case in point:

OLTL is simply outstanding right now. The stories are on fire, acting is remarkable, beloved veterans are coming back....

THE RATINGS ARE GOING DOWN (at about the same rate as ATWT and GL). All these elements...writing, acting...and IT DOESN'T MATTER.

This isn't a copout. I'm SAD that this is the case. But the evidence is VERY clear: at least in the short term, writing, casting...it all doesn't matter.

We've got to get our heads around that...because when we do we'll stop railing against EPs and HWs and look at the ROOT CAUSES of the bailout. Only then can we figure out what to do next.

[dragonflies]

Sorry I still feel it's a copout. I thought OLTL was boring for months even as recently as a couple of months ago, and I know lots of people who feel the same way. The writing may have improved, but people don't want to be bored out of their minds when they watch a show.

So yes IMO there is a correlation between the two, I don't see how there can NOT be.

I don't believe it's a habit at all. You honestly think people would watch something out of habit? Yeah don't think so. I know when there's a show I start to dislike I turn the channel or just don't watch it.

[petunia]

I know I caught a glimpse of ATWT during a Jack and Carly conversation a few years ago and the chemistry popping off the screen was off the charts. Then I started watching it and got hooked on the storylines. I loved the Paul and Meg storyline when it started during the baby switch and loved Jennifer and Dusty's relationship and watching it blossom. I loved Gwen and Will when it first started and loved Maddie and Casey....I was hooked. I look at the show now and can't believe it is the same show. There really is noone to root for. Can't stand Holden/Carly, Jack is unrecognizable, Gwen and Will were ruined and Paul and Meg don't even get me started. Jennifer and Dusty are both dead! and Maddie is gone and Casey is sleeping with Emily. This show is unrecognizable to me. For me this was must see tv....not a habit. I genuinely enjoyed this show. Now I catch bits on youtube if anything good is happening and pray someone wakes up and brings back the show I loved watching instead of this crap that's on now.

[dragonflies]

Exactly! I don't believe for a second people watch out of habit. What do most do when a show loses it's "luster"? People will tune out. The main reason: bad writing seems to be a main factor.

[Juliajms]

Oh, hell yes. I believe people used to watch out of habit. I've watched ATWT out of habit and loyalty since I was about 9 years old. Through the good, the bad, the boring and the ugly. It did not matter because that was my show and at 2:00 it's what I watched. The fact that people no longer do that is a big reason for why soaps are declining,imo. Over the last several years more and more options are available to people and it's much easier to break that habit and never look back.

If ATWT gets boring there are about 100 other channels to choose from, or get online, watch a DVD or play video games on your computer. But during the hayday of soaps there weren't as many options and people watched because of loyalty and habit. I'm sure there are tons of other factors as well. Bad writing inspires people to look for different options, afterall. But do people come back for good writing? Not as many who left it would seem.

But concerning Y&R, I simply don't believe that MAB is a better soap writer than LML.

[lurknomore]

I think habit plays a HUGE role in what soaps we watch. Even if we take breaks, it plays a huge role in what we go back to.

I have been an "on and off" watcher of soaps my whole life - but I always, ALWAYS come back to these three: GH, AMC, and ATWT. Why?

Because those are the ones I started watching first. I've watched Days for a bit; I've watched GL for a while. But the ones that own me are GH, AMC, and ATWT. Even if I take long breaks (and I'm on one with GH right now, I find it virtually unwatchable), I will periodically tune back in and, depending on what's happening, watch going forward. And I always keep an eye on those soaps in the mags/spoilers. Heck, my dad still asks me about characters on GH - he loved the Qs, that's how I got hooked on that show in the first place. He was a teacher, he'd watch with me in the afternoons.

So.. yeah. I think habit absolutely plays a part in what we watch, and what we love.

[Juliajms]

Yeah, I think that for those of us who had our soaps "passed down" from parents or grandparents, habit and loyalty are a huge part of the equation. I'm going to guess that's changed a lot over the last 20 years. Mother's don't stay at home as much, so they aren't passing these shows down. Also people who have watched long term, especially since childhood seem to have a huge amount of loyalty to the characters. It's like they are friends not to be abandoned even if things aren't going the way we want them to, but even some of these types of viewers obviously have their limits and will jump ship if things get too bad.

Personally, there have been many times in my life when I wanted to dump B&B. That show is so inconsistent, more often bad than good, but I've watched it from the start and I feel like something is missing in my life if I don't know what Brooke and co. are up to. I think this is part of the reason soaps focus on the youth market. Of course there is the advertising element, but at the same time I think they know that if they can get you young, you are much more likely to stay with the show. Too bad, they don't seem to care that when you alienate the over 35 audience, then you are losing a major chance at capturing those people's children.

I think the soap watching experience is very different for people who started watching on their own later in life. A lot of those people seem to hop between shows depending on which soap is the most interesting that month. If nothing is interesting they don't watch.