Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FjsJ-oGnQY

[dc11786]

Frankie appeared on "The City," but he wasn't there for the full run. I assume Alimi Ballard left at the end of his three year contract like most of his age group did. Did they really ever use Frankie? I've read some episode recaps where they hint Frankie / Stephanie might become a couple and then they hired Elise Neal to play Frankie's Erica Kane-esque love interest only to kill her off after three or four months. I believe on "The City" his character had a story with Monti Sharp's James, but I'm not sure what it was.

I'm not sure if B + E were planning the revamp in advance. I seem to recall the network announcing the plans at some sort of celebration ; either an early anniversary party or a pivotal episode number in May / early June. The show had such big holes to fill in 1995 with the departures of Robert Tyler, Michael Weatherly, and Paul Anthony Stewart. I'm sure landing Darnell Williams was a coup and the show built on the Charles / Angie story that Nixon started (didn't they actually marry under Nixon when Angie nearly died or am I confusing Angie / Charles with Ava / Alex). My point is the show would have had to undergo major changes in 1995 even if "The City" wasn't a part of the overall plan.

[Vee]

I heard the show wasted Elise Neal. Big mistake.

[DRW50]

On The City, Frankie had a story where he became friends with Monti, who was, I think, a militant (?). There was racist violence going on, including Angie's clinic being bombed. Frankie got very active in all of this, and was upset when Angie and Jacob were going to adopt a little white girl. I think there was a white woman in his story who might have become a love interest, potentially. I don't think the story lasted long. I think Monti's character was killed off or did something violent. Then Frankie left. He briefly returned for Angie and Jacob's wedding.

I don't think they had any plan for her other than to die. She got a good soap press response, so I wonder if they regretted it.

They actually had a great, very underrated black cast at this time. I wish they'd gotten more notice for it, and used them more on The City.

Edited February 9, 2013 by CarlD2

[Vee]

That sounds interesting. I can remember the little girl - Rain? - and the adoption plotline but not the rest of it. Pity they wasted Monti Sharp, and Frankie.

Lorraine was so great though. I think I can remember her on Loving as well as The City.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Vee

[DRW50]

I remember her very well on Loving. She was one of the reasons I got hooked on the show. She was so different from anything I'd seen on a soap - this beautiful woman, jagged edges, clearly ruined by life, but still trying to find some self-respect. AMC had this with Arlene at the same time and it drew me in like nobody's business.

If you ever want to see any of her again, clips2share has a fair amount.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEbMs3GcH9w

If I ever find any of my 1995 or 1996 Digests again I will try to put up some synopses of that era.

[Vee]

That actually raises another question about Brown and Esensten for me. I've never thought of them as much more than occasionally gifted hacks with only a moderate threat level - thanks to their runs at GL and AMC - but I don't know all the details of their run at GL, either, in terms of the black canvas. It seems like they can at least be said to consistently have made an effort towards an integrated soap. IIRC, they claimed to be instrumental in bringing back the Hubbards at AMC - I don't know if they were blowing smoke, but they had worked with Debbi and Darnell heavily at Loving/The City, and of course Lorraine and Charles and so on. And obviously they attempted those other characters. And when they came onto AMC they brought with them Angie, Jesse, Frankie and Randi all in one go.

I assume their work at GL was limited to maybe Vicky Spaulding and David, but I don't know very much about that and it is curious.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Vee

[dc11786]

Regarding Brown & Essensten and AMC, didn't they also introduce Samuel Woods and his son, Dre? I also seem to remember tuning in once and seeing Samuel's father. That was all under them, correct?

When I started watching GL under B&E, the only black characters featured were Vicky Spaulding and David, but I think Sugar Hill and Dahlia Crede had been written off only a little bit earlier. To be fair to B & E, Paul Raunch's GL was very lily white. The only attempt to integrate was with the Boudreau family, and the less said about them the better. An interesting group of actors, for the most part, some intersting potential, but no story time or development.

Back to "Loving," I think Elise Neal's Janie Sinclair was intended for bigger things. In her short run, they mixed her up with a lot the cast. Initally, she was dating the thug who kidnapped Angie Hubbard when she was in Chicago or some other large urban area. Hardshelled Janie eventually helped Angie get back home, and Angie realized Janie had been abused by the boyfriend. Once in Corinth, Janie took advanage of Steffi and Cooper, who were determined to learn the secret Deborah had used to blackmail Clay into marriage. Janie ran with it and told them she (Janie) was Clay's illegitimate daughter. Cooper put her up in a nice room, but Frankie exposed her as a fraud. I was never a huge Buck fan, but I thought the revelation Janie was his daughter was interesting as it tied Janie to Trucker and the Aldens by extension. There was a bit there where Janie was attracted to Buck, not knowing he was her father, but overall Janie was interesting. Also, the press release in SOD or one of the mags about Neal said she was intended for Frankie.

Janie's death was supposedly one of Uncle Harry's predictions, but the original prediction said it would be someone close to Ava. I'm not sure Ava and Janie even had a scene together. More likely, the show intended to kill off Dinahlee as Jessica Collins decided not to renew her contract with the show. Dinahlee and Ava were good friends so her death would have impacted Ava. A couple of Harry's other predictions also didn't really play out the way they were suppose to. Harry suggested someone would come into money (i.e. the Rescotts own Alden Enterprises) but that story was resolved rather quickly. I suspect it would have been a story that would have pitted Ava against Alex as Alex was incredibly close to the Aldens.

[DRW50]

They seemed to try to revive GL's black canvas, but it never worked out. As mentioned, the Sugar Hill/Dahlia/Marcus story didn't last long. Any story (like bringing back David Grant and his parents, bringing in Victoria Spaulding, and several years later, bringing in a woman named Ruth, and her son, who were in some bizarre hostage crisis talk show story with Reva before having a short triangle with Vicky and David before they all vanished - the last stuff was Labine) was short-lived. I would probably put that on Rauch, more than them, as I think the whites only policy that dominated their PC (aside from Joy Bisco and Jamal) was probably an ABC mandate.

Edited February 9, 2013 by CarlD2

[danfling]

Not only did Gillian Spencer return to acting at times after becoming a writer, but Lois Kibbee (The Edge of Night, Somerset, One Life to Live) did also.

And Ian Martin also remained a popular actor after having written the serial Strange Paradise and Somerset. I believe that he wrote Somerset at the same time that he was playing Lois Kibbee's butler on the show.

Also, Robert Cenadella (Somerset, Another World, The Doctors, The Guiding Light, The Secret Storm) was a writer, then he was an actor.

[DRW50]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUwiysqF0ng

My comments were so incredibly insightful that I have to bring them over here!

It's nice that they kept up some Loving continuity that they didn't have to, like Buck visiting Stacey's kids.

You could tell they had no story for Tess. She and Buck always had an easy chemistry, which helped hide the fact that he probably never would have gotten over what she did to Stacey.

Danny looked like a grease slick at this time. Just totally unappealing. I think the Danny/Ally idea was a big mistake.

Tony is as unlikeable and punchable as I remember him being. Ugh.

I liked the Christmas intro scenes - that was a wonderful use of their filming style.

I also enjoyed the Hubbard Christmas (although I think Zoe would have known what Kwanzaa was). Jacob (almost typed Jesse!) as the old Jewish Santa was...interesting. Some of the slight tension over Frankie's search for identity reminds me a little of that story on Saved by the Bell College Years where Slater suddenly learned he was Latino, but it works much better here.

And then there's the Bernardo/Azure story, an interesting idea with some heart-stopping (not in a good way) acting from Carlotta Chang. She was involved with Paolo Seganti (Damian, ATWT) at this time, for anyone who cares.

And how wonderful to see Deborah. You've done my Nancy Addison-loving heart proud in the last few days.

Edited February 10, 2013 by CarlD2

[EricMontreal22]

I think the show was in great shape--I guess probably after Nixon's year long stint--but I don't believe ratings had any climb until the Murders, which worked as designed.

[DRW50]

Eric, I think the guy who is harassing Jocelyn in this episode was some Broadway name. Do you recognize him?

This is a lot better than the second episode, although the best part is Tess in Sydney's apartment. "I am Red Sonja...buns of steel!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HImjluQt2-w

Edited February 10, 2013 by CarlD2

[Vee]

I always loved Tess. CH's Lindsay on OLTL ended up morphing into her, pretty much, in later years when the writing for the character under Tomlin, Malone, etc. became much healthier and well-rounded.

[DRW50]

I think Lindsay was a little more openly neurotic and whiny, which annoyed me a little (a lot), but there were traces, yes.